This episode is sponsored by CURE Hydration. All right, I’m going to be real with you. Drinking water is boring. My ADHD brain is like, wait, we have to do this again? Like every day, multiple times. What in the world? And because I’m running from meetings to coaching calls to kid chaos, staying hydrated is not something I’m naturally good at. It’s not something I naturally think about. That’s why I’ve been obsessed with Cure hydration packs lately. Cure is a plant based hydrating electrolyte mix with no added sugar, only 25 calories, and it actually tastes good. The watermelon and berry pomegranate have been on repeat for me. I’m actually like really running low on those flavors, which is so sad. They’re refreshing without being too sweet or artificial. It feels like my water finally has a little bit of personality, which I enjoy. I really do. What I love most is that CURE uses a science backed formula that hydrates as effectively as an IV drip. So when I’m scrambling through my day forgetting my water again, CURE helps me to catch up fast. I throw a few packs in my bag and it makes drinking enough water simple, which for my ADHD brain is basically a miracle. So staying hydrated isn’t just about water. You also need electrolytes. And that’s why I love Cure. It’s clean, tastes great, and it actually works. And bonus, CURE is FSA HSA approved. So you can use those funds to stay hydrated. The smart way for I have ADHD podcast listeners, you can get 20% off your first order@curehydration.com I have ADHD with the code I have ADHD. And if you get a post purchase survey, make sure to tell them that you heard about Cure right here on the podcast. It really does help to support the show. Don’t just drink more water, upgrade it with cure. Welcome to the I have ADHD Podcast where it’s all about education, encouragement and coaching for adults with adhd. I’m your host Kristen Carter and I have adhd. Let’s chat about the frustrations, humor and challenges of adulting, relationships working and adult achieving with this neurodevelopmental disorder. I’ll help you understand your unique brain, unlock your potential and move from point A to point B. Hey, what’s up? This is Kristen Carter and you are listening to The I have ADHD podcast, episode number 164. I am medicated, I am caffeinated and I am ready to roll. The sun is shining, the birds are chirping but we don’t have a second to waste. We’re getting started right away. Here today is part three of our ADHD Entrepreneurship series and dang, I have a fire episode for you. Let us all jump for joy together because today on the show I have brought on the absolutely brilliant and wildly successful Africa Brooke. Africa is a London based consultant, accredited coach, strategist and international speaker speaker who specializes in helping public figures, established entrepreneurs, teams and individuals with personal or professional challenges related to self censorship and self sabotage. We’re speaking today about one of the ways that we sabotage ourselves as entrepreneurs, which is in not allowing ourselves to rest and detach from our businesses. We don’t let ourselves refuel and recover. We ADHDers are so used to working around the clock, especially because we’re trying to make up for all of our deficiencies or perceived deficiencies and then we burn out and we avoid work altogether and we perpetuate this vicious cycle of overworking and then avoiding work. And listen, I’ve been there, I’ve done that. It’s exhausting. And as my coach, Africa has helped me immensely with setting boundaries in my business that I can grow and sustainably. She’s helped me to cultivate an identity outside of my company and really make sure that I know exactly who Kristen Carter is apart from focused and apart from this podcast. Now for those of you who are hyperactive ADHDers and are rolling your eyes right now thinking this is not relevant, this is not relevant to business, this is not relevant to my bottom line or my revenue. Why do we have to talk about rest? I want you to know that your ability to rest and refuel is going to impact your revenue. It is, I promise you. Your ability to refuel and recharge and detach from your business will for sure determine how consistent you can be and how creative you can be and how much joy you will bring to your work, which of course will impact your bottom line. I know that especially hyperactive ADHD entrepreneurs want to work around the clock and never detach. And sidebar here probably because we don’t want to have to deal with real life and real feelings. But that’s a conversation for another day. Because of my work with Africa, I’ve really stopped overworking and for the most part I completely disconnect from my company. When I go home, I enjoy my time away from my business, which I never thought I would say. I’m able to rest and I know what play means to me. It’s nothing exciting. It’s just walking or Reading or hanging out with a friend or watching my kids at the pool, but I know exactly what it is, and I do it. And I have been able to scale this business sustainably, which is something I never thought I would be able to do. I’m working less than I ever have, and my company is generating more revenue than any company I’ve owned in the last 17 years ever has. So, as my mom would say, put that in your pipe and smoke it. Which I don’t know. You know how my mom has these phrases? I don’t know, but I feel like that would be an appropriate time to say. So put that in your pipe and smoke it. Right. Like, I’m working less and I’m making more. And I think there is a direct correlation. So I know that you are going to learn so much from Africa today. She is a treasure. She is brilliant. It’s an honor to call her my coach. Please join me in welcoming Africa Brooke. Welcome, Africa. Thank you so much for being here with me. I am so thrilled that you’re here. Thank you. I mean, the people can’t see my shoulders, but I just did a little shimmy because I’m very, very excited. Thank you for having me. Thank you. I am so looking forward to my listeners hearing your deep wells of wisdom and just being able to glean so much from you. Even though you don’t identify as an adhder, there’s so much to be learned from you. And I have implemented so much of your teachings on boundaries in my own life. And when we started working together about a year ago, that was one of the main intentions that we set, was that I would be able to truly separate business from family and leisure time, and that leisure time would become an actual thing, which it wasn’t for me because I was constantly obsessing over my business, partially because I really wanted it to succeed and partially because it’s really fun. I really enjoy what I do. And so one of the things that you have helped me with so much is separating work from family time and really learning how to rest in play. But before we get into all of that, I would love for you to introduce yourself, tell us who you are, give us a little backstory on Africa. Brook? Yes, absolutely. And first of all, thank you so much for that reflection. And I’ll. I’ll tell you my experience of you when we first met and what you shared with me, because it makes me so happy to hear you say this and that you’re doing an entire episode on it and that your people are going to be going through a journey with you where they get to learn the same things. So a little bit about me. I am a coach and I’m a consultant and I’m also an, what I call an occasional podcaster because I’ve had a podcast for two years. But on occasion I’ll step away, but it’s fine. And I’m a speaker as well. But in all of those areas, what I focus on are two main pillars. So I focus on self sabotage and self censorship. That is the work that I do when I work with entrepreneurs, when I work with people that are in the public eye, when I work with the everyday person. But my main clients in my private practice are established entrepreneurs and people that are in the public eye mainly because they experience self sabotage and self censorship in a way that is so unique to the everyday person. And I’m sure, Kristen, you’re aware of this as well, that when you’re visible, let alone hyper visible, you’re exposed in a way that most people will really never understand. So the environment for self sabotage, which is essentially when you get in your own way. And a lot of the time I prefer to actually refer to it as self protection, but it doesn’t quite have the same kind of oomph that we need. But that’s what it is. That’s what it is. Okay. It’s self protection. And I think it’s important to keep that in mind when you start to see yourself exhibiting behaviors that fall under self sabotage or self censorship. So that has been the core of my work for the past six years. And I’ll just give you a very quick sort of add a bit more context as to how I landed there. So I had a decade long struggle with alcohol from the age of 14 up until 24 when I finally got sober and I was a binge drinker. I didn’t know when to stop. And it was a way of drinking that I had trained from such a young age that by the time that I got into adulthood, it wouldn’t matter what environment I was in, that would be the behavior that I would step into straight away. And with that obviously came a lot of other behaviors that were not very pleasant. Whether that was lying to myself and to other people, whether that was just living in a very self selfish way and not remembering it, but still having to apologize for it. So there were so many things that were starting to alert me to the fact that something had to change. But I was so over identified with being a party girl, with always having a glass of wine in my hand and dressing up what was really happening, you know, with, let’s say, a fancier bottle of wine. We find so many smart ways to sort of dress up these behaviors. But I was in that cycle for a decade and I tried to get sober and seven times consciously tried and relapsed every single time. And the final time in 2016, what was different about that time is instead of just doing in my own shame and guilt, I started to actually get curious about what was really happening. And I’ve always been very interested in reading and self study and wanting to understand why we do the things we do. So I fell into the world of psychology in a way that I hadn’t before. And when I found that term self study sabotage, it opened the door to so many different things. It finally gave me language to understand what was really happening beyond looking at it from a moral position, understanding what’s happening on a scientific level, on a behavioral level. And then my work just developed from there. I was sharing my story and quickly it sort of caught media attention here in the uk, so I suddenly had a platform. Not necessarily overnight, but quite slowly and gradually. But it was very potent because I. Because of how young I was and because of my story, the specifics of my story. But essentially I moved from just talking about my subjective experience into looking at it more objectively. And then I found coaching psychology and then realized that actually I really had a natural gift for coaching. And I think, Kristen, you’re also one of those people when you just have a natural gift for listening and supporting people, seeing a problem and seeing a solution straight away, maybe not always for our own lives, but for other people straight away. Indeed. So over time I just ended up training in different methodologies, really immersed myself in self study, listening to different experts and mentors. And six years later, I do the work that I do today on a much more intimate level in my one to one practice, but also on my platforms online. And I do a lot of one to many gatherings as well, probably a few times a year in person, but mainly virtually because they are international. But that’s the work that I do. And that’s what sort of led me. Let me hear the short version. And what led me to you was, you know, finding you on Instagram and observing the way that you speak truth so potently, but with a measure of empathy and grace. And I remember thinking, this woman is the bravest person that I have observed. And I need a dose of that because at the time my platform was growing. And while that is such a blessing. It also comes with a lot of negativity, a lot of people saying things and really wanting to hide. But knowing that I had a message that I wanted to get out there and hearing your just your teaching on self sabotage and just hearing the way that you speak about even just social issues and politics and things that you are really calling people to be deep thinkers about without apologizing one way or another, that really inspired me to think. I want to be like that in the world of adhd. I want to be brave enough to say things that would help people to really think and embrace gray area. But I want to do it without apology and I want to do it without having to go hide in a hole afterward, because that’s how I was feeling was, you know, I would put something out into the world and then I would go hide in a hole because I was so afraid of what backlash I might get or what negative podcast reviews. And they do come, right? Like those kinds of things do come. And so what does somebody like me do in the midst of that? And so I remember being like, I need a. I need, I need it, I need it, I want it, I need it, I gotta have it. And working with you has been a dream because you have such a beautiful way of pointing out areas in which I do hide, in which I have wanted to self sabotage. And it is so insidious, it’s so sneaky. Self sabotage is not something that we do consciously. It’s not like, end, now I will go sabotage myself. It sounds more like I’ll have a copywriter write my website copy instead of doing it myself. That’s what it sounded like for me. And that’s something you’ve been pointing out for a very long time. But I want to talk about it right now. Those kinds of things, things have been so helpful because I think that when you are in it, recognizing self sabotage doesn’t. It just doesn’t happen. You need a second pair of eyes on yourself, on your behavior, on your business, on your thought patterns, whatever it might be. Because I think for us in business, self sabotage is just so sneaky. It looks, it takes many forms, but it can look like, you know, for example, I’ll have a copywriter write my website. I will. I probably shouldn’t put this offer out into the world because it’s not quite ready yet. It also can look for me like I really should pivot here and not keep doing what I’m doing because doing what I’m doing is hard and it’s actually working and it’s giving me visibility and it’s really scary. And so I should probably pivot, but I don’t have those thoughts consciously. And so having a pair of eyes on me and on what I’m doing and the decisions that I’m making and just having you be able to assess, like, I hear what you’re saying, but I also smell something. It smells a little bit like it’s been so helpful to me. Oh, that’s, it’s, it’s amazing to hear you say that. And you know, as we’re even just thinking about just the idea of play and rest, something just came to mind. Actually. One of the sneaky ways that self sabotage can come up even in that area, and you would never see this or even think about it, is that we, and bear with me here, I think sometimes burning ourselves out can be the way that we sabotage ourselves so that we can come to a point of sheer exhaustion and then give up and say, see, I knew that it wasn’t going to work. And staying with all of the busy work. So you’re in your business doing all of the busy work, not actually being visible in the way that, that you want to, doing all of the busy work, wearing all of the hats, not delegating anything, not thinking actually maybe this is the priority instead. And then leading yourself to burnout and then pulling the plug, because maybe a part of you wanted to pull the plug the whole time. So I’m glad that we’re talking about rest and play because I actually think it could be. Could be. And I know this is big to say could be the antidote for things like burnout. And I’ve seen this in my own life and business as well. I think you are absolutely right. And I think for ADHD specifically, we are so used to being in a cycle of two steps forward, three steps back, two steps forward, steps back. I like to say, just like Paula Abdul, but not quite as fun. That’s. That’s kind of how we roll. And so I think that when we take two steps forward, because it’s an automatic pattern for us, we assume, okay, now it’s time to take those three steps back. Right? And that’s one of the ways that we sabotage ourselves. So we, we take our steps forward, but we do it in a way that isn’t sustainable. We do it in a way that burns us out. We do it in a way where we’re never off and we’re working around the clock. And so that’s how we take our Two steps forward and then immediately we burn out. We have nothing left. There’s nothing left in the tank to keep us going. We start resenting our business, we start resenting our family. We start like resentment is flying high. Yes. And I think that you’re right in that rest and play can be an amazing antidote to that. And that’s one of the things about you that I was always so curious about because you are a driven entrepreneur and you’re successful and yet you’re like, you’re the most leisurely person that I. I’m so sorry. Is that okay to say? Of course it is. Can’t you see my smile? Yes, please say it once more time. One more time, please. You are dripping with leisure and with comfort. And you take naps and you go on long walks and you watch movies. And so much of your life is built around the areas in which you play, in which you rest. So why is that important to you? I love that. I love that. And I also want to first of all start by addressing a myth that is in the entrepreneurship space in general, especially online business, et cetera. And it’s this idea that everything is easy the whole time. It’s just easy. It’s just easy. You just start this thing, you have an idea, put the thing out and it would just happen. It’s. It’s so easy. So I want you to know that when I’m talking about making rest and play a non negotiable in my business, it’s not through that lens of it’s just easy. And you know, you don’t have to do anything at all because it’s really not that I. When I started my business, when I really started taking it very seriously in 2017, late 2017, I was still working in a full time job. So I was working in advertising at the time. So I was balancing my growing public profile. I was holding my consulting and coaching company and my full time job at the same time. So I experienced a level of burnout that I would never wish on anyone. So when I left the corporate world, when I left advertising, I knew that I was never going to step into anything where I didn’t get to set the terms, where I couldn’t prioritize my well being and rest and spaciousness, which are things that I’ve always craved and needed for, for as long as I’ve known myself and from the culture that I’m from as well, Zimbabwe in Africa, it’s a very slow way of being. It’s not as fast as the Western world is, especially if you are. If you happen to be in a metropolitan city, there’s just a pace, a certain pace that might be where you are. So it’s something that’s always been embedded in me. And if it’s not embedded in you, I want you to know that it is something that you can cultivate to really honor your need for spaciousness and rest. So what I decided from 2017, right at the beginning, before I had any question, clients, before I even knew exactly what I was trying to do, just knowing that I was on a mission, I decided that anything that I create, anything that I do is going to be shaped around the spaciousness and rest that I need. So one of the first things that I realized was that actually I want to have a nap every single day at a certain time between 4 and 5. And I do. And I do, believe me, I do. And the days that I dared, I will still honor those days. But I do. It’s just a. It’s just a part of the way that I work. And then I decided that when I’m creating a coaching program, for example, every fourth week, we are going to have a rest week. And you will know that, Kristen, because it’s something that you and I did. And I decided that if it’s a longer term of way of working with someone, if it’s 12 months, we’re going to have a rest of the rest month will still be in communication, but there’s going to be a rest month, a month of integration, a month of slowness. Because the rest is not just about being passive, even though being passive is also okay. You need room to integrate. And playing allows you to do that. It allows you to have space. It allows you to have clarity. It allows you to have an identity outside of your work, which is huge, huge. And it’s also one of the questions that I asked you, Kristen, when we first started working together. I remember I asked you, who is Kristen outside of the business? And I think this might have been even our second session. It was our second session because it’s so important to actually bring language to say, actually, okay, so when I’m not working, what do I like to do? Do I like to go for a walk? Do I like to just sit and do nothing? Do I go for a massage? Do I go and have coffee with a friend and make it kind of a ritual? Every single month we see each other. So I think building a business that actually honors spaciousness can seem counterintuitive, but it’s highly, highly rewarding. Highly rewarding. I think that that is the part where ADHDers really struggle is. Because it does seem counterintuitive. Yes. And there’s a stigma that we have grown up with where we’ve been called lazy. We’ve been called lots and lots of things by parents and teachers. And if you could just work harder and if you could just be more consistent and, like, why aren’t you doing these things? And why are you procrastinating and why are you avoiding it? And so we have decades of baggage. Most of us ADHD entrepreneurs have decades of baggage where any time that we are still, we have the thought, I should be doing more. It’s very hard for us to turn off our brains and to feel peace in stillness. Has that been something that you’ve ever struggled with? Or if not, what would you say to someone who does struggle with just kind of turning the volume down on the to do list? Because, remember, we. We don’t approach our to do list in the same way that a neurotypical will. And so our to do list is kind of haphazard, and there’s a lot of things on there that are probably late and clients are probably even waiting on us for things. And so when that’s our reality, how do we still turn down the volume and just be still. Oh, you know something? As you were describing all of those things, I could feel my body sort of almost tightening up, because those are things that I have also had, whether it was growing up or whether it was in school or just feeling that I had to be consistent in terms of my performance or in terms of my level of attention. I remember I would always fall asleep in class, not because I was tired, but because the information, the stream of information just sort of coming at me would make my brain just tune out. And then the result of that would be me falling asleep. And also maybe because of boring. I’m sorry. We can’t just all pretend that this. That this geography lesson is the most compelling thing we’ve ever sat in, Right? But I think another reason why I also really love your podcast, Kristen, is that I have had times in the past where I’ve thought that maybe I do have adhd, because a lot of the symptoms are very accurate to what I’ve experienced before. So it’s not a part that I’ve gone down on to actually get a diagnosis. But I think I realized, especially in the corporate world, that that way of operating did not work with how my brain operates or even with my capacity. There was a huge Conflict, A massive conflict. Even. So, I think even though I don’t have a neat answer to the question that you posed, I think I would put a question to that, actually, which is a question that I asked myself. What is my capacity? Not society’s capacity, what is my capacity? And you know what I realized? I realized that, for example, when it comes to a to do list, my capacity is having one priority per day. So sometimes I will still write a few things, but then I’ll transfer them to a different day during the week. But if I can do even just this one thing, then okay, that’s more than enough. And if I get to do more of those things, then that’s absolutely fine. How I also realized that I needed to honor my capacity was, for example, saying I’m not going to work with more than three long term clients at the same time. That was a fast rule that I made from the beginning. And the reason I decided to do that was because I knew that there’s a level of commitment that I want to have to my people. So if I overwhelm myself, the way my brain works and my capacity works, I can’t, I can’t do it. I can’t do it. So I knew that I had to build my skills up and my confidence enough to a level where my prices would be able to be high enough so that working with just three people long term felt very easy. So I think that question, what is my actual capacity? Can lead you to so many different answers, especially if you are neurotypical. I think it can be so, so helpful. And it sounds, it’s such a simple question that most people won’t even take the time to answer it because they kind of want something that is spicier, something that is more. But that question can open so, so many doors. And it’s really, it’s really helped me. What is my capacity? Yes, it’s so funny because what I find is that people, what they actually want are like, just give me the five steps to being able to do more or to never have to rest or to working around the clock and not burning out. Like, what are the, what are the tips and tricks to do that? And I’m often like, I don’t come with tips and tricks. Like, that’s not right. That’s not the kind of person I am. It’s not the kind of coach I am. I love that question. What is my capacity and how can I honor it? Yes. And what it really forces us to do is take ourselves outside of the box of what we believe that society expects from us, what we believe it looks like to be a quote unquote, like good or perfect or, you know, whatever, some sort of great adjective there, entrepreneur. And really say, how can I honor who I truly am and live into that? And the last episode that I just did was about leaning into your zone of genius. I know that you love the book the Big Leap by Gay Hendricks. Oh, yes. So good. And so we were talking. I was talking about that, and I think that’s one of the ways that we lean into our zone of genius is really understanding who we are, really understanding what we can offer. And what I’ve realized is that my capacity is, what? Far smaller. It’s much smaller than I thought. It really is. That’s huge. That’s huge. I think that’s most people’s. I think most people. I think you’ve. You’ve really nailed something there. I think most people’s capacity is smaller than they think because of the internal and external pressures. Right? Yes, yes, yes. And I think the more that my business grows, the bigger my team is, the more clients that I am holding space for, the more that I notice that I need to work less and I need to think about my business less because it takes so much out of me to show up, let’s say, on a focus call with a hundred people that come and I’m holding space for questions and teaching and coaching and the ability to hold space for that many people, it wears you out in a way that I didn’t expect. I thought just like, oh, I’ll just work all day long and then I’ll play with my kids, and then I’ll work a little bit more in the evening, which is what I used to do. But I could do that when I had a handful of clients when I was building my business, when it was on a smaller scale, was at a smaller scale. And now I think that it’s important to understand that as you scale, your capacity will likely shrink and that buildings more need for rest and play and separating from your business. Yes. Especially the. The separation piece. It’s another thing that I’m sure a lot of people have heard about. Well, a lot of people refer to it as the work life balance, which is really not a term that I like because I don’t think there is such a thing. I think it’s actually about work life play integration. I think that’s more. That’s a much better idea because I think we also think in terms of what will make us money, especially if you are in business and you’re an entrepreneur. We mainly think of, yes, but I’m right at the beginning. I need to. I need to make money. Or even when you get to a certain level, you think, yeah, but this is not generating revenue. So there’s no time. There’s always a, I will rest when. Right. It’s almost like the, like the fallacy of I will be happy when I have more money. And then that money comes and it’s. You still don’t have that feeling and that state you were chasing. People do the same with rest and play, not realizing that actually when you do allow that spaciousness, whatever that looks like for you, because it is going to look very different. Some people absolutely hate naps. You know, some people could never imagine napping because it’s just not who they are. It’s not what their biology actually needs. So maybe for them it’s going for a walk, maybe it’s going cycling, maybe it’s actually doing something more active. But what you are aiming for, essentially, is how do you express that separation from your work and your business? I think that could also be a very powerful question to ask yourself. How do I choose to express the separation from my work and from my business? Business. And then make a list of what those things will be and then try and integrate them into your daily life. Right. It’s so beautiful because I remember when you asked me that question a year ago, who is Kristen Carter apart from her business? And I was like, I don’t understand the question. Really know what you’re talking about. I don’t. Why are you even asking me that? Who cares, really? Like, that was. I mean, I probably had a sweet smile on my face, but, like, underneath it was like, why does that matter? Can’t we just get into, like, growing my business? Right. Can we just get into, like, the good stuff where it’s like, no, no. Is how we grow your business. We allow you to disengage, to rest, to play, to integrate who you are on a much more robust level. And then you bring that back into your business. And it is just. I believe that what I’ve been able to do this year is, is scale in a way that I. I didn’t realize was possible. And a huge part of that is being able to separate and to truly refuel in my time off. Because what I would do, you know, for the 15 years prior of entrepreneurship was I would constantly be connected to my business, and there was no actual time off and there was no real refueling. And the reason for that was this thought of like, I need to respond right away or this isn’t going to get done unless I take care of it or I need to make sure that I don’t miss anything. That’s a big one, you know? And all of that is, is mostly untrue. All of that is mostly untrue. Just like babies, you like, you take care of babies, but also they need to sleep. And when they sleep, they don’t need you. They’re just kind of like, could you leave me alone so I could sleep? I’ve had three babies, right? They’re delightful. And I think that your business is like that, where it’s like, you need to leave it alone and go find out how you can refuel so that when your baby wakes up, so to speak, you’re happy to see it, you’re ready to engage, you can meet the baby’s needs because you have refueled in the time off. And even if that’s just a couple hours in the evening or, you know, not working on a Saturday or something like that. Yes, I love that. And I think one of the best ways to also make sure that you’re not going through a period of sort of working, working, working, working, exhausting yourself, burning yourself out, but sort of leading with the idea that, but it’s fine, I will take a month off, I’ll do, I’ll just power through, continue powering through, and then I will have a month off. That can seem as if you, you are prioritizing rest in a way, but you’re only resting because you have to. You’re only resting because you absolutely have to, right? What about, what if you started saying, you know what, I want to, I want to rest. So instead of just waiting for those pockets of time where I have like a month or a few weeks where I do just rest and do nothing but probably feel guilty about it the entire time, but I won’t tell anyone. It’s fine. No one knows, right? Instead of doing that, what if you were to create even on day one of actually starting your practice, or whether you’ve been in it for 5, 15, 20 years at any moment? I think we forget as entrepreneurs the autonomy that we have because a lot of us have left corporate spaces, a lot of us have left pre existing structures, then we take the very same structure and system and create our own thing. But it’s the same thing. It’s the same thing. It’s the same thing. What if from the very beginning or from this moment, or whenever you decide that going forward, every single offer that I create, everything that I do is going to honor that baseline of what my needs actually are. So then you don’t have to wait for those moments of time where you have that month off, right? But you’re probably wondering, oh, but I’m taking a month off, is the revenue going to suffer? What if everything you did was built around that? Which is why I, I think with my coaching programs, for example, if it’s long term, I decided that my coaching days will only be Monday and Tuesday so my client can book in that day. And I decided that I do not work on weekends. And I decided that if my client reaches out to me on Voxer or elsewhere, which is a voice noting app for coaches and consultants, my response time will be within 24 hours. Granted, I always respond much earlier, but I’m happy to do so because there’s no pressure that I have to. My client knows so I have all the space and time. 24 hours is a very long time. So that spaciousness and rest is deeply embedded in every single thing I create. So you don’t have to wait for those moments where it’s given to you because your body’s physically saying, hey, now we need to stop you. Give it to yourself. We’ll be right back. If you’re an entrepreneur working full time in your business and you want to learn how to make your business more ADHD friendly, establish boundaries so that you’re not constantly overworking, hold your team accountable without drama and increase profit and revenue and scale without burning out. All while having my personal support and a very small group of like minded ADHD entrepreneurs around you. You’ve got to apply for my business mastermind. It’s the perfect hybrid of a mastermind where peers share ideas and hold each other accountable and group coaching where I have my eyes on you and your business. Every week I will offer you my personal support as I help you to grow your revenue and scale sustainably without running yourself ragged. Conventional business advice does doesn’t work for the ADHD brain. You need something different and this mastermind is that thing. Go to. I have adhd.com mastermind to apply. And now back to the show. I am curious how you help people to set boundaries. I know how you’ve helped me, but I think boundary work is something that you work with a lot of your clients on and I know you have a masterclass on it and it’s been so helpful to me. What would you say to someone who is struggling to rest? How would you help Them to set boundaries so that they can have a little bit of separation. Because that’s what a boundary is, right? It’s just a property marker that says, like, hey, there’s a separation here. And I think that we adhders don’t understand, first of all, the need for a separation, but also we don’t understand what that looks like. So often we’re putting up walls instead of fences. So would you speak on that a little bit? Yes, absolutely. And you know what? I think even from the beginning of our conversation to now, I think we have pretty much been talking about boundaries right from the beginning. So I’m going to just clarify on what some of those points are. Just so you have them all in one place. I really do believe that before you even think about, okay, these are the boundaries that I’m going to set. You have to make a commitment to being very honest with yourself. Very honest. You have to be honest about what your needs actually are. So in the example that we’ve been talking about throughout this conversation, when I think of me, for example, whether as an entrepreneur or just Africa, the everyday human being that exists, right, I know that’s spaciousness is a need that I have. I need to have space so that I can think properly, so that I can feel relaxed, so that I don’t feel overwhelmed. So spaciousness is really important, whether that’s personal space or within my business, right? Or even just the environment that I live in. If a place is too crowded or too crammed on a nervous system level, it just doesn’t feel good. So spaciousness shows itself in so many different areas. So I know that’s a big need of mine. So be very honest about what your needs are, and then you’re going to pose that question. So remember, this is all about boundaries. What I will and will not accept of myself and of my work and of my clients. So you can filter that through so many different areas, right? First question is, what is my capacity? Because by being very clear on what your capacity is, you will know what you will and will not accept. So for me, an example of what that boundary looks like there. I will not accept calls or messages on a weekend from clients now and again, especially if it’s Kristen sending me a photo saying, Africa, you have to see what I’m looking at right now. You don’t have to respond right now because I know you’ll see this on Monday, but please look at this. That’s completely different. Again, that’s completely different, right? So I know that I. I just do not work. I do not work. But I have the pleasure of working with clients who I actually really love communicating with. So we have those moments. But that, that still honors my boundary and my clients also are very much aware of that. And I also know that these are the set days for when I coach. That’s a boundary. So I won’t accept anything outside of that. So my clients would never reach out outside of those terms saying, Africa, can we have a one hour session now? Because that’s just not the way in which I work. So those boundaries can look so different, but they are based on this question, what is my capacity? And then the answers and the boundaries reveal themselves from that question alone. And then I decide to make them a non negotiable. Because the thing is, very quickly, and Kristen, you were saying this. Your boundaries are not walls. They are not supposed to be an electric fence. They should always be put forward from a grounded place. If you’re putting them from a resentful, tired, exhausted place, it’s just going to perpetuate the very same cycle. It’s going to make you feel very disconnected. Boundaries are supposed to make you feel connected because there’s an element of respect and understanding and groundedness on a nervous system level, not just on a brain based level. Okay. And that doesn’t mean that it’s always going to feel really comfortable because especially if you’re implementing them for the first time and actually honoring them for the first time and saying no for the first time and maybe moving from a schedule that is not as busy, it is going to feel a little bit strange within your body. But I would like to believe that maybe at this point you do know the difference between just a discomfort that’s actually a part of growth and something that is quite painful and you need to change something. Right? So you have to decide which boundaries you’re going to make a non negotiable. But I really do believe that question, what is my capacity? Can give you more profound answers than I could in saying this is what it should be. I agree with that 100%. And comma, I still struggle, not all the time, but from time to time with setting internal boundaries with myself and keeping those. So, for example, last night, I mean, I worked really hard yesterday and I got home later than usual around 5 o’, clock, but I just still had more. Like I was just kind of like amped up and I was like, I just wanted to keep working. Yeah. Had dinner with my family, went for a walk with my husband, sat on the front Porch and literally was on Instagram all night long working. I was like, put up a Q and a box and like, let’s chat. And. And I was watching myself do this thinking, Kristen, you’re. You’re working like it’s 9:00 o’clock at night. Honey, sweetheart, like, what. What’s going on here? And I. And I felt my nervous system kind of being a little bit activated and really not relaxing. But it was so hard for me to really pay attention to that, to honor it, and to just be like, we’re putting it away. And I think that I didn’t want to feel bored. Like, I wasn’t sure what else to do. Like, my kids were all out doing their thing and my husband was doing his thing, and I’d already done dinner and a walk, and I was just like, I don’t really know what else to like. I felt now as I’m reflecting, I think I didn’t want to feel bored. So can you talk just a little bit about internal boundaries and how we keep those and honor those with ourselves? Absolutely. Because I truly believe, and I think that’s perfect anecdote to share, because I truly believe that before we even externalize anything, we need to make sure that our internal boundaries are strong. Right. Because if they’re shaky and there’s a difference between something your boundary being shaky and it being maybe a negotiable boundary. Because in the example that you’ve just given, Kristen, for example, I wouldn’t personally necessarily say if I was in the exact same situation you were in. And then my kids and my husband, everyone’s kind of doing their thing, and I feel a burst of inspiration and I’m like, no, there’s a lot of energy that I have right now. Let me. Let me do this. Because I haven’t felt inspired for the past two weeks, and I’m getting something that I haven’t had in a while. I wouldn’t necessarily label that then as crossing my boundaries, because maybe it’s me actually being, like, taking advantage of this momentum that I’m experiencing. So, yes, objectively speaking, this might me be do been doing something that is work. But also when you look at the type of work you do, it’s not as if it’s your corporate job and you’re getting out your laptop and you’re kind of doing what you were supposed to do. Nothing would be wrong with that if you chose to be like, you know what? I still have momentum to do that thing I was supposed to do. So I think there are some Things that are maybe more negotiable than we realize, and you can allow them to be flexible. I don’t think they necessarily need to be then labeled as, oh, my goodness, I ended up working last night. From which place were you working last night? I think that can be a very different thing, because if you were still having fun with it and you were being creative and having a conversation with your audience and then it inspired you and sparked something else and etc. Okay, so maybe the platform you were using is Instagram. So, again, objectively, there are things that will look a certain way, but you have to know yourself well enough to be like, actually, no, I actually needed that a little bit. Maybe allowing myself to be bored wouldn’t have given me what I needed in that moment. Maybe it was actually to follow that momentum a little bit. So I think it’s. It can look very different. But of course, you know yourself enough well, hopefully that’s the journey you’re on anyway, to be able to identify the moments in which maybe it’s a good thing that it’s negotiable in this instance. Right? Yes. And I think you bring up a point that you and I have discussed so many times, which is, it’s not always black and white. Yes. Yes. There’s. We’re allowed to have some gray area. Oh, absolutely. Which we, as ADHDers, struggle with. So much. So it was like, in my mind, I crossed my boundary and. And then I wasn’t actually truly enjoying my time answering questions and interacting with people, because I was also having the thought, because I shouldn’t be working right now, what are you doing? You know better than this. Like, all of those yucky thoughts that make me feel gross in my body. So I wasn’t truly enjoying the experience. I was. Because internally, you’re already attached to a different experience, to a different meaning to the experience. Right. Instead of allowing for the gray area, instead of allowing for, hey, like, I. I am inspired right now, and this is really fun. And literally nobody needs me. Like, there is nothing. And my best friend’s on vacation. So, like, one of my. Yes, yes. Yeah, it would. It’s so, so interesting. I mean, you and I talk about gray area a lot, and. And I think that that is one of the gifts that you are continuing to give to me is that openness to. It doesn’t always have to be so strict. It doesn’t always have to be completely right or completely wrong. There is so much gray. Yeah. But we struggle with that as adhd, because we want hard and fast rules. And I think part of that is because we want to know, like when we’re okay. Yes. An element of certainty. Right. You need some kind of certainty. So, yeah, I think those guidelines can feel very important, but then they can also easily end up feeling like a trap. Right. Because I think one of the worst things in I could imagine is then guilting myself into resting or playing, saying I shouldn’t be, then that kind of defies the entire point of it. It’s supposed to just feel like, yeah, you know what? This is what I want do to. To do. And then you will have those moments. For example, if I’m launching something or creating something like I currently am, I will have times where I’m like, you know what, I’m gonna nap a little bit later. Or I’m not going to nap today, but I will go to bed earlier than I normally would. So some things, they still mean a whole lot to me, but they can be negotiable depending on the context. So maybe what we’re essentially saying here is that allow yourself to realize that things can be context dependent. In fact, they are. So you can still really value the rest and the play. But then depending on the context, maybe you do need to do a little bit more. But then maybe you’re going to give yourself even more space because you’ve done this. So it gets to be whatever you want it to be. Yeah. It’s such an uncomfortable conversation because it comes back to self trust. Yes. Yes. Trusting myself to know what’s best for me. Yes. Instead of following rules that I read on Instagram or in a book or here in a podcast. Yeah. And I think the conversation of self trust is, you know, obviously not one that we’re going to solve in the next 10 minutes, but I think we need to do another one. We need to. We. I think we need to have another conversation all about self trust. Yes. Let’s have a conversation where we just talk for five hours in a row, please. People can just like tune in and listen to it. Because I feel like there are so many threads here of being able to set boundaries. But then that goes back to self trust. And how do I trust myself when I’ve been told my whole life that I’m doing it wrong? Yes, exactly. I love that because I think what we’ve put forward here is still very useful and the core of it takes away that question, what is my capacity? But then whatever’s revealed can only really be honored if you have that foundation of self trust. So maybe this is a conversation to be continued. Because I think, I think it’s also, even besides that, to just remember the listener, to remember that this is a practice. It’s not go. It’s going to look different every single time. Sometimes you will really be on the ball, sometimes you won’t be. Sometimes you will need to, to work a little bit more, but then sometimes you need to rest a little bit more. But I will still just say, please take this away with you. That you can embed rest into the things you create, into your yes and into your no. So that you never have to rely on those moments that, that just come when you are exhausted. You can allow it to just be a staple in everything that you do and everything that you create. And there might be a little bit of conflict when you’re doing that, especially when you operate in a different way and everything that we see externally. That’s why I tune out of the entrepreneurship world in the coaching world and do things my way. Because you’re always told, this is how and my system, my process. And this is, you should wake up at this time, sleep at this time, take advantage of the I, I’ve tried all those things. It does not work and it sucks. I’m sorry. But it’s worse. It’s the worst. And it’s not helpful to me because I burn out all of my energy. Yes. Trying to do those things. Like, okay, I need a morning routine. And it’s just like I spend all of my capacity and all of my energy trying to do that instead of selling or instead of creating for my clients or instead of coaching because I don’t have anything left after I’ve tried to follow this 12 step morning routine. It’s not happening. Right. Which is why I always tell you that I’m so grateful for you and the work that you do and the community that you’ve created and for your people, because I think you provide that very needed relief. And it’s a very refreshing. And it’s a, it’s a. Your approach generally is one that is grounded in reality. I think that’s why your work reaches so many people. It’s grounded in truth and reality, but it’s also very empowering. It’s honest and it puts the, you know, it puts the individual in the driver’s seat. You’re saying, okay, this is some of my intellectual property, this is some of what has worked with me, but it’s really not the be all, end all. Come on in and let’s figure out what your personal philosophy is. And let’s make sure that it’s rooted in what is actually real about you and your life. So I just, I, I love that so much. So much. I appreciate that. And what I would love to end with is, can you tell us some of the most delightful ways that you play? Yes. And can you giggle while doing it? You know, this is me and you. This is me and you. In our sessions the whole time, we’ll be very serious on the ball, high level stuff. And then we’ll just burst out laughing because it’s just how it is. It’s just how it is. So this is how I play. So on Thursdays, I go to pottery class every morning at 10am so I’ll make my little flask of tea, get on the train half an hour, be drinking my tea with my little teacup, which I’m showing Kristen here, which I made in pottery class, actually. So on Thursday, that’s what I do. And then again, I have my daily nap, which is between 4pm and 5pm, so I’m due a nap very soon. Okay, is that Eastern Standard Time or isn’t that bst? So I have my naps and then I also go to Pilates. That’s just something I enjoy because I love movement. But the gym is not for me. I don’t need anything that’s kind of boring or rigid. I need something that’s quite fun and they always have music. So I have those little things that I do. I go on a walk every single day. I’ll put in a podcast. That’s why I love long form podcasts, because I can just walk for a while. So those are the things that I do or hang out with my friends or so they’re very, very seemingly simple things, but I really just enjoy them and I make them a part of my practice and they help me have that spaciousness that then allows me to be very on the ball in my work and in my business and with my clients. So I actually think, and I can just finish on this. I found that for me, it is my responsibility to be well rested. It’s my responsibility. It’s actually very unethical for me to be exhausted and burnt out and tired. As I’m seeing my clients, as I’m supporting them and as I’m helping them move out of similar spaces. As I’m having conversations about business, as I’m showing up for my audience, it’s, it’s, there’s, it’s not congruent. I’m not being completely honest with who I am. If inside I’m absolutely done and fried, but I’m showing up and, you know, sort of helping other people. So I. I think for me, and it can be uncomfortable to sort of sit with that, but I think it’s a very good thing to be like, you know what, it’s actually my responsibility to be well rested, to play, to have clarity, to have space. And that’s something that’s really helped me in my business, actually. I think what you described is a beautiful contrast of resting and playing and just doing things that you love. Simple, simple things. Walking, creating pottery, Pilates, enjoying a conversation with a friend. Simple things. The contrast of like, I take a daily nap juxtaposed with, I am on fire in my business and working with intentionality, and I am not messing around in this area. And it’s such a beautiful contrast that I think maybe that is even what we can really encourage people to do is like, if you want to be that fire entrepreneur in your business, you must contrast it with being silly and being restful and doing simple, simple, simple things. If you enjoy cooking, like taking a long time to cook a meal, or if you enjoy walking, going for a walk, all of those things, the contrast of that will actually allow you to show up so much more on fire and ready to, to work and execute within your entrepreneurial venture. Oh, that’s good. Oh, that’s good. And the beautiful thing, you get to create a business that supports that. Yes, yes. That’s the. That is the privilege of entrepreneurship. Yes. I loved your point where you said many people coming from corporate are just recreating their corporate experience in the entrepreneurial area. And like, that’s so true. That is so true. Africa, thank you so much. I adore you. I have such deep, deep, deep love and respect for you. And I am wondering if you would share how my listeners can find you. I know they’re all going to want to run to your Instagram immediately, but I know there are other ways that they can find you. So how can people connect with you? Yes. And before I just share that quickly, I really just want to say thank you for having me here and for choosing me to be on this journey with you. Because I really can’t believe that it’s been a year. At the time of this recording, it has gone by shockingly quickly. That’s what happens when you have fantastic, beautiful, gorgeous clients. So for anyone listening, if you want to carry this conversation on or to just find out what it is that I do in greater detail, there are three places that you can find me. So social Media, it’s at AfricaBrook with an E at the end. If you find an imposter, please report them. Okay? There are many imposters. There are, there are. Second place you can find me is my website. It’s just africabrook.com and the third place, I also have a podcast which is called beyond the Self. It’s all about focusing on what you, the individual can control. So we have very tough conversations, but it’s always through the lens of humor and just groundedness. No self righteousness. I’m really serious about moving away from sort of the fluff free sort of self help, this is how you do it type of thing and just putting the power back in your hands. Which is why I think I resonate with you, Kristen, because I feel that you do the exact same thing. So yes, thank you, thank you again. Thank you everybody. Run, do not walk, run and go find her. You will not be disappointed. Hey ADHD entrepreneur. If you want my support with your business, but you’re not quite ready to apply for my mastermind, you need to get your buns into Focused. Today, Focused is my group coaching program for adults with adhd. And so, so, so so many of our members are entrepreneurs. Because of this, I created the Inconsistent Entrepreneur. The Inconsistent Entrepreneur is a course, inside Focus where I teach you how to grow your business even though you’ve got a distracted and inconsistent brain. The Inconsistent Entrepreneur is my signature course and it includes a workbook, four video classes taught by me and tons of binge able business coaching calls that’ll be so helpful to your business they’ll blow your freakin mind. Best of all, Inside of Focused, you will receive my coaching on your business and be surrounded by a community of ADHD entrepreneurs who will support you and give you great ideas on how you can grow. So go to ihaveadhd.com focused to join. And just a hint here, if you’re using Focused for your business, you should talk to your accountant about labeling it as a business expense. Go to ihabadht.com focused and I’ll see you inside.
