Kristen Carder 0:05
Welcome to the I have ADHD podcast, where it’s all about education, encouragement and coaching for adults with ADHD. I’m your host, Kristen Carter and I have ADHD. Let’s chat about the frustrations, humor and challenges of adulting relationships working and achieving with this neurodevelopmental disorder. I’ll help you understand your unique brain. Unlock your potential and move from point A to point B. Hey, what’s up? This is Kristen Carter and you are listening to the I have ADHD podcast. I am medicated. I am caffeinated. I am regulated and I am ready to roll. I’m here today with dyslexia expert Natalie Brooks. And I can’t wait to chat with her because I have so many questions about dyslexia and about how it impacts just like the population but also especially people with ADHD. I am currently parenting a son, who is technically technically dyslexic, and I have so many questions. Natalie helps individuals with dyslexia feel valued and successful. She offers a proven framework to navigate Dyslexia as challenges and strengths. She’s the founder of dyslexia and adults. And she has a community called the hive, which we’re going to get into as well. Natalie, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for being here. Thank

Speaker 1 1:31
you, that was such a kind introduction thing. I’m really excited to talk about it. I’m really loving that we’re starting to tie together all these neurodiversity is it’s not just dyslexia, as much as ADHD is not just autism, like we’re starting to become one community. And I think it’s really exciting. That’s

Kristen Carder 1:46
beautiful. And before we hit record, you started preaching about this. And I was like, Girl, save it, save it, because we have so much to talk about. So you are about to go off on a tangent before I stopped you and was like, we need to hit record so we can get this gem of a content. Tell me what you mean by including all the neurodiversity. Why do you feel so passionately about including dyslexia into the conversation?

Natalie Brooks 2:12
So one of the things I used to feel so I was formally diagnosed dyslexic when I was seven. And because I was young, when I got the diagnosis, one of the things you have to have in a lot of schools in England and kids haven’t hasn’t realized yet. I’m British. And one of the things that you have to have in England is a regular rediagnosis. Like as if I’m going to become I’m dyslexic or whatever. Ridiculous, right? Just another opportunity for just like another 350, another 350, although I think it’s more like 500 now. And so, you know, I was sitting there feeling dyslexic, struggling with dyslexia, but also really cognizant of a lot of other struggles. And I was like, trying to shoehorn it into dyslexia, but it wasn’t making sense. And I wasn’t understanding myself. And I was giving myself a lot of frustration, shame, embarrassment, which frankly, I already had, I didn’t need more, all these challenges that felt so difficult to deal with. But I didn’t have the words for them. I didn’t have the strategies for them. I didn’t have the understanding, because I believed I could be different. But when you realize that as neurodiverse people, we don’t just have one, we’re not just ADHD, we’re not just autistic, we’re not just dyslexic. We are a community of neurodiverse. People who have multiple neurodiversity is, and we shouldn’t feel shame about the fact that we’re scrolling on tick tock, we’re on ADHD talk. And then you find me or you find another dyslexic creator, and you’re like, hang on, hang on it or like the boy that that’s feeling a bit too familiar. And you’re like, Oh, God, I don’t want another card or another excuse or another. Like another diagnosis? No, this is the way that our brain works. And it’s multifaceted. And all the neurodiversity is played together. And it’s super important that we understand ourselves. So we can get rid of that shame. So we can build strategies, and we can figure out what we’re good at. And that means understanding all of the neurodiversity is in play, not siloing ourselves in different communities. And that’s what I feel really passionately about. Because I figured out I was ADHD at 28. And I was like, oh, oh, this is why everything has been so hard. Okay, that makes so much sense. That’s why can’t stick at a job for longer than 18 months. That’s why I blur out and I’m like, famously known for making outrageous comments. Like, it’s not because I’m broken. It’s because I’m different. And figuring that out. Just was the missing piece in the puzzle. And I could have spent years focusing on dyslexia. And if I hadn’t figured out that piece, I would have just continued to feel broken. And so that’s what I’m really passionate about is kind of passionate about dyslexia because that was the start of the journey, but I’m passionate about helping people understand their brain, and that means understanding that the neurodiversity slow together.

Kristen Carder 4:53
Absolutely love. Absolutely cosign. I just I appreciate you saying That’s so much. So let’s talk specifically about dyslexia. Because I, I think that many people might be surprised to find out how much dyslexia and ADHD overlap, and what a huge population of ADHD folks, and that’s who’s going to be tuning into this podcast are like curious about ADHD, who are also dyslexic, and they may or may not know it. So what are the symptoms of dyslexia in let’s say, an adult? Yeah,

Natalie Brooks 5:32
I mean, like, I think let’s first start by saying that, although we have statistics of what, you know, what is what, frankly, we all know, this statistics are almost not really worth the paper that they’ve written on. We say that 40 to 30% of dyslexic people have ADHD, I don’t know a single person with dyslexia who doesn’t display ADHD traits. So I don’t know whether or not really we should be even using these statistics. I mean, if we think about dyslexia alone, it’s thought that 80% of people are undiagnosed. And yet, we’re walking around with like, oh, we think 10 to 20% of the population is dyslexic. But we don’t know, we don’t know the answers to these questions. Because we don’t have true sample sizes, we aren’t doing enough data and research on these people. And 90% of people who are neurodiverse, are just walking around, thinking that they’re useless or thinking that ethic that is the sad reality of it. So in terms of traits to kind of change that mindset and stop feeling like that, some of the things that we are looking at, I mean, there’s a lot of the executive function challenges come under dyslexia that you know, for, for ADHD. So, organization planning, difficulty with time, these all come under Dyslexia as well. Although, to be honest, that’s where there just isn’t that good research for us to really understand like, is it just isn’t ADHD. If we think about the diagnostic criteria, specifically, we’re looking at two things, we’re looking for phonological awareness. And we’re looking for that difficulty around communicating with words. So they’re kind of the two pieces that we’re particularly looking at, when it comes to the diagnostic criteria. But the overlaps are the organization, the time planning, the time blindness, and also working memory. So all of the challenges you’re having around processing, the amount of information that is coming to you, putting your thoughts together, feeling like you’re really overwhelmed when people are giving you directions, these are all complete crossovers, and we just, you know, you could be set up, they’re diagnosed with dyslexia. And you could be like me, the little girl who’s like squiggling, in her chair, can’t sit still playing with her hair, turning up 10 minutes late to the appointment. And you know, you just get diagnosed with dyslexia. But the reality is, so diagnostically, we’re looking at the difficulty with the written word of in terms of spelling, phonological awareness, which means reading, you know, processing out your thoughts in written format. But then with ADHD, we’re looking about your ability to focus and your ability to have attention. And then those executive functions which we talked about of working memory time plot, timeline, this organization, they’re the two that overlap, basically. But there’s so many more as well outside of those. So someone might struggle with telling the time, someone might struggle with their left’s and rights, someone might struggle with their ability to the fact that they think in this very big picture, to succeed, people are really famous for this ability to see all the interconnections of something, go way, way back and see the word from the trees, and really be able to see how so many different things and to connect. And that is, again, things that a lot of ADHD people will really relate to, that that’s considered in the dyslexia bucket a little bit as well. And that’s why they are so naughty, they are so overlapped. And that’s why we have to stop seeing ourselves as silos and start seeing us together. So yeah, if you’re struggling, the quick answers if you’re struggling with spelling, if you feeling like your reading is processing really slowly, you’re reading an entire page and you’re like, Ah, did I really understand what that said? Or if you find yourself getting toward you don’t know, sounding it out, and people laughing at you. These are all the kinds of diagnostic criteria doesn’t say.

Kristen Carder 9:31
You said something about like expressing language, like expressing yourself through language. Can you talk a little bit more about what that looks like in the dyslexia umbrella?

Natalie Brooks 9:41
So I think one of the things that and this is my experience as a coach and as someone who’s trying to solve this problem, this isn’t like so much in the diagnostic criteria. One of the things that I see every single day with adults who are struggling with dyslexia is that our brains are just wired in a way to see things either through stories or pictures, or through examples. And we are seeing such a top level like imagine looking at a plane and seeing all of the field all of the cars, all of the drivers, and how everything plays together. And computing that piece into the written word is so unnatural for us. And so you know, what so many dyslexic people are coming to me saying is like, Natalie, I’ve been told ideas on my car and say, you know, I’ve been told as a dyslexic person, I have these great ideas, that I sit in meetings, and I’m invisible, I’m absolutely mute. Because I’m terrified of things coming out like gibberish or feeling like I’m going to smush words together, because I’m not really sure what I’m saying. Or there’s absolute fear that you’re going to say something really leftfield, not explain it properly, because you think that people see the interconnections that you do. And then everyone just looking at you, like you’re an alien for what you’ve said, this is some of the challenges that I see so much, that is holding so many dyslexic people back, because they sat there thinking, Well, I obviously don’t have good ideas, because everyone’s staring at me like an idiot. And it’s like you do have good ideas, but we need to fine tune that communication piece. So that’s kind of one of the things so often really see a lot and really love helping people with,

Kristen Carder 11:29
I just have to say that as you are explaining that I am having a very big emotional reaction in my body, because I am parenting a kiddo who’s diagnosed with dyslexia. And it doesn’t really seem to impact his reading very much. But his self expression is so jumbled at times. And I love him so much. And I know that he is brilliant. He has got such an amazing brain that absorbs facts. And anytime that you are like wondering about science, or you’re wondering about mechanics, or you’re wondering, and I’ll say like, I wonder bla bla bla, and he’s the one, my child is the one that will be like, Oh, I watched a YouTube video on that, and blah, blah, blah, he knows all of the facts about everything. But when he is trying to express himself tell a story. Tell me what happened in a sequenced, you know, sequence of events, it, it is sometimes a little bit painful to to hold space for it. It’s also painful to look around, even if it’s just the family and see like my other kids reactions to him, or, like people are just confused by what he says. And it just hurts my heart so much. As a mom, I know this is not about me. I know this is not about me. But it just hurts my heart to even hear it described because I’m like, Oh, yes, that is him. Like, I’ve always wondered about his diagnosis, because he doesn’t seem to struggle with reading. He loves to read and he retains it. But his written expression and his verbal expression are very, very limited. Yeah,

Natalie Brooks 13:14
so but we’re both well known, I mean, across neurodiversity, but it’s kind of considered in the dyslexia bucket as nonlinear thinkers. You know, we don’t think in that organized pattern, we think in that big picture, we think in those images and stories, and then we’re having to compute it into words, which are not our friend, like, that’s not what we were built for. And so then we’re often relying on working memory to kind of translate what’s going on into words. And obviously, we know we have that reduced capacity. And so often, you can then lose your train of thought, because your working memory lets you down, or you just don’t quite get the sequence, right, because you’ve kind of missed apart for God intersection. Or often. I think one of the things that I’ve started to realize for myself is that I assume connections, I assume that people have seen things that I see. And so you know, it didn’t really realize that in the you know, that people don’t think like you, but you don’t realize the extent that people don’t think like you. And so you’re kind of jump five steps ahead. Because you’re totally there. You’re totally ready. And then you start communicating. And people are like, Oh, I’m sorry. And you’re like, No, because if it’s this and this and this, and this and this. And so one of the things I’ve really learned to do to communicate better is, I start with that big picture that I know I have, and I start there. And I’m like, Hey, so this is what I’m seeing, like, these are the two things I’m putting together. And now this is how I’m feeling. And I’ve done that in a nanosecond. And that’s easy for me. So I just assume it’s easy for other people, but it’s not because they don’t have the same information that’s coming into my brain, even if they do have that big picture. So we have to put those pieces together. And I think also we have to learn to sometimes give working Maria break, like we don’t have to organize our thoughts as concisely, because it will overwhelm us. So sometimes what I’ve also learned to do is wrap up my thoughts. So like, you know, rambled on a little bit. And it’s like, okay, Natalie, time to turn it on time to just like, synthesize and get summary. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So just to explain just to make sure you really walked away from it, I’m sure you heard me do it earlier, when I was talking about the diagnostic criteria, where you kind of go on your spiel, you go on your speech, and then you’re like, anyway, so that you understand what I’m saying. And because I allow myself that little baby ramble, I’m not overwhelmed working memory as strongly and I feel capable of being able to kind of give you that stronger summary. So that’s one of the things that we teach really strongly, like across all products.

Kristen Carder 15:51
And now, a word from our sponsor. Hey, Kristen here, I’m the host of this podcast, an ADHD expert and a certified life coach, who’s helped hundreds of adults with ADHD understand their unique brains and make real changes in their lives. If you’re not sure what a life coaches, let me tell you, a life coach is someone who helps you achieve your goals like a personal trainer for your life. A life coach is a guide who holds your hand along the way as you take baby step after baby step to accomplish the things that you want to accomplish. A good life coach is a trained expert, who knows how to look at situations or situations with non judgmental neutrality, and offer you solutions that you’ve probably never even considered before. If you’re being treated for your ADHD, and maybe even you’ve done some work in therapy, and you want to add to your scaffolding of support, you’ve got to join my group coaching, program focused focused is where functional adults with ADHD surround each other with encouragement and support. And I lead the way with innovative and creative solutions to help you fully accept yourself, understand your ADHD, and create the life that you’ve always wanted to create. Even with ADHD. Go to I have adhd.com/focused to join. And I hope to see you in our community today. I want to get into the ways that you help people who, you know, artists like sick. But first, I really want people to have a pretty clear understanding of what dyslexia is, whether or not they may identify with it. So you’ve given us some diagnostic criteria. Can you also paint a picture for how this may show up at work? So you did talk about meetings and feeling like held back in meetings or afraid to express themselves with ideas? What other things might people look out for? How does it play out practically in someone’s life?

Natalie Brooks 18:00
Yeah, so I mean, let’s kind of walk through a day, you know, you’re going into work. And maybe you didn’t account for the fact that you need to pack your bag because you lack that organization, time planning piece. So you’re rushing into work, and like and you’re and you’re running late, and maybe you’re five minutes late. And then there’s this like, this piece of shame, or you’re like, Oh, my God, like, so annoyed at myself, why am I not better at this, and then you sit down, and you open your laptop, and you receive like, 20 emails, and one of them is this like long summary of, you know, a meeting you went to or something you need to prepare for. And you just look at it, and you just think I’m so busy being stressed for the fact that I’m coming into work, I can’t possibly process that, like, that is so much for my brain and they clicking in to be able to read that and process it probably requires, like, you know, calming down your headspace. Or maybe it means like printing off and following it with your finger. And then, you know, after two or three times you finally processed what that email has said and what was going on. Or, or maybe you posted it quickly, but you feel like that was a that was a stretch like that was a that was a piece of our firm. Yeah. And then you go to reply, and you write out your reply. And instead of spelling business with the I like in the correct place, you’ve moved the eye to a different place because that’s what I always do. And so the spelling business, Bas e nurse, which is how I remember it, I just seem to like float the eye around like wherever I fancy it just it goes in different places at different times. And so you’re writing back your email, and you glance over it because you’re already running late for work. You’re already taking a little bit longer processing that email, so you can’t over anything. Yep, got that sorted or correctly but me Be you’ve got really like, screwed over by a homophone, because spell check has got all of them. But you’ve written brain instead of Brian, or you’ve wrote angle instead of Angela, or you’ve, you’ve put the eye in the wrong place with business. And you’re like, damn it. I looked over that, how did I miss that? And you know, you and then you go on again, you’re down, you’re like, oh, frustrating. And then yeah, maybe after, you know, replying to those emails, and you’ve depleted a little bit of your energy, because it’s felt harder, it’s felt more frustrating. And it’s definitely taking you longer. And then you go into that meeting, and people are talking and you know, much like people will with ADHD will feel your, all of the conversation will be going on in front of you. And you’re just kind of there glazed, like, I’m listening, but I’m not processing. Or I’m busy thinking about the thing you said two minutes ago, and I’m kind of unable to think about the thing you’re saying now I’m, I’m trying to write notes. But I can’t keep up with what you were just saying. So I’ve just learned to kind of pretend that I seem normal, but you probably have ADHD, and you’re like fidgeting and distracted. And before you know thinking about the shopping, and someone asks you a question, and you give the answer, but you give it in a bit of a ramble. And then it’s another moment of like, Oh, God, so annoying. And then maybe the next meeting, you go to, someone asked you to write on a whiteboard and the fear in your soul that comes over you have like, oh, you know, I’m so embarrassed, like, I know that i is going to go somewhere wrong in the wrong place. Like what am I going to do? And so you know, you try and make your excuses, go to the bathroom, whatever it is that I think it’s you know, to me, it’s a you know, it’s a lot of the things that we talk about with ADHD as well as like, I can do these things, but it’s about what cost? Yeah, really, is the bigger question. How hard is writing that email? How much do I have to focus to read it? What do I have to do to be able to communicate effectively, and my thoughts and ideas, and you know, maybe you write that report at the end of the day, and people read it, and then I get spelt? Right? But it just sounds a bit janky? When you’re writing it, it’s like, like, do you understand sentence structure? And you’re like, No, clearly not? Like off the 10 time of reading it? Do you want to just take a stab that I probably don’t understand sentence structure. And you know, maybe it’s a case of the other thing that dyslexic people are pretty bad at which is really funny that we’re known as like hating the written word. Yeah, we’re really verbose. So we say so much more than we need, we write so much more than we need. And so often, like a lot of it’s like cutting down and like read editing and reviewing and being like, am I actually making any sense? So that’s another challenge that a lot of dyslexic people will have.

Kristen Carder 23:01
It just, it sounds exhausting.

Natalie Brooks 23:05
You know, like, exactly like ADHD, it’s like, trying to be in a box. Yeah, you know, in the box that people want you to be is so frustrating. And trying to be normal as hard. Trying

Kristen Carder 23:19
to be normal as Oh, my gosh,

Natalie Brooks 23:21
I really, it’s

Kristen Carder 23:24
so, so hardcore. I relate to that. So hardcore, because I can fake it. And actually, I was just going to say that ADHD is a spectrum disorder. And so it’s harder for some of us to fake it, than it is for others. I wonder if dyslexia is also considered a spectrum as to like, people experience it differently? Is that how it works? Yeah,

Natalie Brooks 23:53
I mean, I just I had, like, I have a lot of like, skepticism about, like, what we actually medically are saying about these, these kind of different ways of thinking and neurodiversity, and what actually we’re experiencing on the ground? Like, yes, it um, it is considered a spectrum disorder, my personal feeling is, I’m not, I don’t know, a dyslexic person who doesn’t struggle with their spelling, you know, maybe they’ve been had a more rigorous education experience that’s kind of taught them bussiness or, you know, maybe they have, you know, greater anxiety that makes them you know, be better at double checking things. I think a lot of the challenges are, what they are and the depth of feeling towards them, I often wonder is like, is it more to do with our circumstances? Is it more to do with like, you know, the environment that we’re in and the job that we have, because I you know, from what I see is that sometimes people will change bosses, and it goes from like, they were totally fine, and then there’s a kind of more Oh, rigid boss, and then they go from like to really struggling. So yes, technically, it’s a spectrum disorder, I guess I just feel like, I would be considered functioning, but I’m not functioning. So I was like, you know, what, what are we? What are we talking about here? You know, I’ve had an amazing education. And how much of that is the reason that I’m as successful as I am today? You know, someone else, one of the really sad statistics around dyslexia, and I’m sure so many other neurodiversity is as well, is that the prison statistics like, you know, people who didn’t believe in people, people who weren’t taught to read properly, like, you know, are they more dyslexic than me? Or were they just never given a shot? Yeah.

Kristen Carder 25:48
Oh, gosh, it’s heartbreaking to break that down and think it through in that way. For sure.

Natalie Brooks 25:55
Yeah.

Kristen Carder 25:55
What was your education experience, like? So you said you had access to amazing education, but I can imagine, I mean, I have like visions of like a British boarding school. And so please forgive me, I’m so sorry. I’m picturing in you. Like this very, very adorable uniform, and you’re at Hogwarts, clearly in my brain. And I’m just wondering, like, what is like,

Natalie Brooks 26:23
on this occasion, you’re not that far off to private school, and they were adorable. It was a little bow tie. And there’s a photo of me with no teeth and a bowtie and it is

Kristen Carder 26:35
that photo, we are going to need access to that photo.

Natalie Brooks 26:42
It’s really interesting. So my parents are both undiagnosed, ADHD, and my dad definitely dyslexic as well. And they just had really bad experiences at school, they just were, you know, literally just sat in the corner, told they were stupid. And so my mom particularly, like really believed in like a better education. For me, she was really serious. She didn’t know it was ADHD, and, and all of these things, but she was like, my child is going to private school. She was like, this will not happen to my child. And so I was in the private school system from the get go, because my mom believed in a better education system for her child.

Kristen Carder 27:29
But a gift, I’m

Natalie Brooks 27:30
so grateful and really, like, aware of my privilege, because, like, you know, she really instilled in me, you know, I wanted this for you, because I didn’t have it. So I sometimes feel a little bit embarrassed about talking about going to private school, but because it feels to me, like it’s come from this place of like, you know, just that, that that want for your child to have better. You know, really just try and be grateful for it. Sure. So yeah, I was, I went to private school my entire life. And the first school I went to, again, like a really prestigious private school, and they diagnosed me with dyslexia at seven, they were like, this kid is eloquent, like engaging, interesting. And she cannot read them, right. Like, I could not read them, right. And so they’re like, Hey, this is clearly dyslexia, like, let’s pick this up. And universal mind. This is like 2000. So you know, it’s really early. And then my mum went, Okay, cool. Well, so she’s dyslexic. So what are you gonna do about it? And they were like, oh, no, sorry, because she’s capable, who can read and write, we don’t give support, we only give support if they’re failing. I don’t know what failing really has to look like but so she ripped me out of that school within about two weeks put me in another school that had a dedicated dyslexic unit. Amazing. And they taught me in a kind of a more dyslexic friendly way. It wasn’t like there’s the systems we have now. But that yeah, they kind of were a lot more patient, like very careful in the way that they taught. And then I learned to read and write and continue going to schools that were, again, I can’t stress this enough. It’s not what I would want for my kids, but a dramatic improvement to what most people will have experience. Sure. So I’m very grateful, but also fighting for better. Yeah, yeah, I was when I was went to schools that were acknowledged in that I was dyslexic, and were willing to go the extra mile to kind of get the accommodation, there was no expectation that I would do less. It was like cool. You’re just like said you need to walk around or you need to work harder. You need to work faster, you need to work more, like you’re gonna get an A and we’re going to help you achieve it. I mean, you are going to get an A, which is really amazing to like, have that sense of you can do this. You totally can Ah, I think so few neurodiverse people have, but also close really, really tough because I don’t know if I really had the brain to do what needed to be done to get an A, I haven’t a brain, but I haven’t a brain and neurodiversity for sharing, not a neurotypical. Right. It was still really odd. Yeah, just with support is the kind of the key thing I’m really, really aware of our privilege.

Kristen Carder 30:31
If someone is listening to this, and they’re really identifying with what your with what you’re saying that they likely have ADHD or ADHD tendencies, and now you’re unlocking a new awareness for them? Is it worth it for an adult to seek out a dyslexia diagnosis? Is this something that is like, how would that even happen? Is it worth doing? What are your thoughts about that?

Natalie Brooks 30:59
Yeah, so my personal opinion is that, you know, it’s going to depend on the individual and their circumstances and their financial means, because let’s be honest, it’s an expensive business figuring out you’re neurodiversity. And so one of the things that, you know, when I’m educating people on this, you know, I want to give you the details to make an informed decision, and you have to make a decision on an individual basis. So firstly, a dyslexia diagnosis is around 500 pounds. And so what you will get for that is accommodations on like, official things. So if you’re going for exams, particularly, then you will get more accommodations, because you will need that official diagnosis. Most workplaces, both in the UK and the US are willing to just accept, I am dyslexic as the kind of the piece to unlock the kindness and the support and, and the kind of the strategies. So you know, if you’re in an organization that’s asking you for a formal diagnosis, then maybe that is what you need, but most won’t, that would, most will, will be fine with it.

Kristen Carder 32:12
So you’re saying most will be fine with you self identifying, and you saying, Hi, I’m dyslexic, and they won’t say show me the

Natalie Brooks 32:20
proof? Yes, it sounds like cases, in most cases, you will not need the proof. There are companies that will require it, there will be companies who are happy to pay for it as well. So that’s what I mean, when I say it’s like, it’s really on an individual basis, like, what do you need? Do you need like specific accommodations? And are the organizations that you are interacting with needing that formal diagnosis? So that’s one piece of the puzzle. And let’s be frank about it, can you afford it? You know, it’s 500 pound minimum. The second piece of the puzzle that I think is really important when we talk about getting a diagnosis is what is going to help you have the confidence of mind to be able to build strategies and systems. Because I think the reality is, you know, I’m not formally diagnosed with ADHD, but I’m going through the process in the NHS, but you know, I have a friend who does ADHD diagnosis, and she turned around to me, she was like, yes, Natalie. Like, yes. Like big, yes. Like, massive, yes, rubber stamp, yes. You lose everything. Because so relate to everything. You know, there are so many things that she was like, yes, she was like, You can’t sit still for love nor money. So I feel confident to figure out ADHD strategies and symptoms and like and be accepting of myself, because I feel sure that it is that I understand it enough. And I’ve you know, had some engagement with with professionals that I feel capable to kind of go forward and learn about myself and build the strategies and really build the self acceptance that is needed. And that’s enough for me, but maybe for some people, they’re like, you know, what, if I’m going to transform my whole life, and I’m going to think about so many things differently, and I’m going to speak to my boss about it, which is terrifying, then I think it’s really important for those people to get a diagnosis. Now. So in terms of what you get from a diagnosis, obviously, you get that access to specific support. And usually that means extra time, or maybe like a computer or a scribe all those kinds of things in exams. But in terms of what you walk away with, that’s individual practitioners for dyslexia, and they will have different ways of doing their report, but let me explain to you a little bit about what that report might look like. It really does depend on who you work with, but they will go through specific tests. So they will do like, you know, putting blocks in certain ways like checking or sequencing and which is just a working memory test. You know, maybe Checking your spelling, checking your writing, checking your ability to process written words. So this comprehension of text, and they will score you against averages of the population. So they’ll kind of say like, Okay, you’re in the bottom 10 percentile for this from the top 10 percentile of this. And what we’re looking for in dyslexia is that spiky profile, so you’re really good at some things, and you’re really got deficits and others, that’s kind of what we’re looking for, for dyslexia. And so you will walk away with like, you know, on this test, you were in the top 10 percentile on this test, you were in the top 5%. tile. And if you’re lucky, some practitioners will be really good and explain to you what that means, like, hey, that probably means you’re struggling with their struggling with that struggling with this. And it also might give you some suggestions of accommodations, and bits and pieces like that. So you will walk away with I think, firstly, that rubber stamp, that is the reason you should really be going in and doing it secondary, to some extent, but still not perfectly, you will not get a really good overview of what you’re struggling with, and how to figure it out what you need to do, and even less, so to figure out your dyslexic strengths and your neuro diverse strengths that won’t really be covered at all, because I think a lot of people go in for a diagnosis with this sense of like, I want to understand myself, I want to understand what’s going on. And it’s more of a rubber stamp than it is that. And by

Kristen Carder 36:25
rubber stamp. You mean like validation? Yeah. Of the diagnosis validation of your struggles?

Natalie Brooks 36:30
Yes, exactly. validation for you to be able to go to the next stage, which is learning. What exactly are your struggles? What are the strategies for them? And what are you good at? Okay, yeah. So yeah, it’s really, I think, you got to go into it with the goal of getting validation. If you find a good practitioner, you will get some, like direction on the challenges and the strategies, but not the full piece. And it’s a lot of money for just a rubber stamp. Which is why I always go through that big long overview of like, why are you doing it, you know, what’s right for you as an individual. And so yeah, and there’s also screenings as well, like there is for ADHD, there’s really good screenings out there, particularly in the UK, they’ve just announced a really good screening, and that should give you a really good rubber stamp. But it’s still somewhat expensive, which would be more like a couple of 100 pounds, rather than, like, five 600 pounds. So yeah, that’s the kind of lay of the land when it comes to diagnostics. I just, I never like to say, Yes, get a diagnosis, or No, I personally, if I was going into this, like, you know, for myself, I would not get a diagnosis, I would not get an ADHD diagnosis is only because it’s free on the NHS that I’m doing it because I don’t feel I need it. But for other people, they’ll need the full certificate, and they’ll need the clarity. And you know that I can’t make that decision for an individual. I

Kristen Carder 38:06
really liked that approach. Because it sounds like if someone is confident enough to self identify, yeah,

Natalie Brooks 38:11
I think they should,

Kristen Carder 38:12
then then go for it. And if you need the validation, which is no shame in that, absolutely no shame of saying like, ah, some of us have been gaslit so much, and by parents and education systems and stuff that we’re actually going to need that formal diagnosis, because we’re not confident enough. We don’t trust ourselves enough to self identify. And that’s fine. There’s no shame in that. And

Natalie Brooks 38:37
I think for those people, what I see a lot is that people, and I’m sure you see this with ADHD as well is that people don’t realize the extent that they’re struggling, they are so busy masking the world, how much that they’re not struggling, that they don’t see themselves how much they’re struggling and I know this for myself as well in the UK, we have a really amazing program where you can get support from the government for neurodiversity. And I you know, obviously this is my full time job and I have staff and I have strategies and I’m like the best version of myself I’ve ever been the most happy the most confident the most successful I’ve ever been. And I went to this like assessment where they say they will do struggle this do you find this difficult? And I was like, yeah, oh, yeah. Oh, big time. Yeah. Oh, God, there. That’s so hard. Oh, my God, that’s a nightmare. And I have like the perfect system, the perfect strategy, super kind staff around me. And, you know, even I didn’t really accept how much I was struggling. And so I think, you know, for what we were classed as high functioning successful people, they probably don’t realize the extent of the problem. And that may be where that validation is really needed to be like, Oh, because I remember so clearly, like the early days of doing this job. I was at a wedding of a friend and I’m lucky that I have successful friends. And this is a friend of mine. She was married to a really successful surgeon. And you know, we’re just chit chatting. She’s like, Oh, how’s your how’s your little business going? And I was like, it’s not a little business. Changing the world. Exactly. I wasn’t offended. Yeah, good for your business. I mean, she’s also a world class surgeon. So maybe, I don’t know, not a little business changing the world. So yeah, sure. I was talking to her. And she said, Oh, how’s your little business going? And I said, Yeah, it’s really I’m really enjoying it. It’s fascinating. You know, the reality of how people are struggling with neurodiversity, and dyslexia. And her husband said, you know, I’ve always thought I was dyslexic, and she turned around, and when you can’t be, you can’t be because you’re a surgeon. It’s like, because you’ve made it through medical school, because you went to an amazing university. You can’t be dyslexic. And it’s like, sorry, sorry, I thought we knew that. neurodiversity has nothing to do with intelligence, that just because I worked five hours extra to get where I needed to go, doesn’t like invalidate that my brain and the way that it works. So yeah, I think for you know, for varying reasons people are going to need maybe that piece in, you know, depending on their circumstances, but I really, if people feel like they want to just self identify, I really want people to just feel comfortable to do that, because it’s it’s a journey, neurodiversity, and you’re going to pick up a few more what the more you learn about us, needing a diagnosis of everyone is gonna get really crazy really quickly,

Kristen Carder 41:38
just so you know, you’ll probably pick up a few more. Don’t be surprised. Walking in next year with three cards, not just one. Exactly.

Natalie Brooks 41:49
Like I started with dyslexia, I’ve ended up with dyslexia. dyspraxia, ADHD, yeah.

Kristen Carder 41:54
Oops, sorry.

Natalie Brooks 41:59
I can’t keep going and getting diagnosis. I’m going to spend my life missing appointments for diagnosis.

Kristen Carder 42:07
Know, I’m curious how you help people who are dyslexic and you know, have other neuro divergences as well. What strategies have you seen, to be proven to be helpful? For I know that like, dyslexia is your heartbeat? That’s where like, you’re, you’re really focused. But also, I assume that in your programs, there are, you know, multiple diagnoses happening at once. But talk to me specifically about the dyslexia piece. What do you see as like, the top things that help people who identify as dyslexic? Yeah, so

Natalie Brooks 42:50
we’re trying to kind of help you burn through funds. If I if I’ve done anything today, what I really hope I have helped you do is just feel like normal and not alone. And not weird and not a burden, you know, because we’re not. And I think we really want to help people with confidence, because we know that it is ripping people to shreds neurodiversity, and if you don’t have confidence in managing neurodiversity becomes 10x, harder. So starting point, we want to rebuild your confidence, we want you to stop feeling like you aren’t good enough, because we’re tired of playing in the box that people want us to play us in. And then number two, we want to help people create strategies and systems, I can’t promise you that at the end of these strategies, you’re gonna feel normal, because you are different. But I can promise you, you’re going to feel in control of your brain. You know, when you speak up in a meeting, you know, how to communicate, you know, how to explain your ideas, like you have that strategy of, of wrapping things up at the end, or not overly relying on working memory or, or coming up with a little bit of of a pre ramble to explain those interconnections? Or if you’re reading your emails, and it’s feeling exhausting, you know, what technology are you using to make it easier? or, frankly, are you having the confidence to call someone up and be like, Hey, I didn’t understand that email. Can you just explain it to me quickly? Yeah, simple things that we can do to make life easier. So we want people to have strategies to feel in control of their brain. And then finally, and, you know, the thing that I, I would love to just kind of click my fingers and give to every neurodiverse person is for them to see the value in their strengths, not just being able to list them, like they’re doing a checklist, you know, oh, I’ve got big picture thinking or, you know, I’ve got pattern recognition. Oh, I’m really good at telling stories. Like, it’s just not sexy. I want people to be able to kind of go into an interview and be like, I’m a really great strategist because I can see the overview of things and I’m really good at Making decisions that are going to increase productivity because I’m amazing at spotting patterns of where people are going wrong with things. You know, I want people to be able to see the value in what they do not just a checklist. So yeah, one of the things we really try and do is, is get really down in the detail like, okay, like, you are a surgeon like, why is your dyslexia amazing about that? Or you are in marketing? What is it you know, that you’re doing in your team meetings that should be really proud of and feel really excited about? We personally hate that dyslexia and ADHD as well is referred to as a superpower because it’s just so cringe and doesn’t hold space. Yeah, I know, right? Like, it doesn’t hold space for the fact that we struggle. Yeah. And we do, and that we need to be honest, and okay with that, like, so, calling a superpower doesn’t hold space for the nuanced conversation about the fact that we do struggle, and it is hard. So we want people to have feel and control of their brain and like they aren’t struggling alone. And we want them to feel like their brain has a value and a place in this world because it does. Beautiful. I love my job so much. I

Kristen Carder 46:16
totally feel it, I feel I feel the same way. So I just am so able to just mirror those feelings with you. Because I just know what that feels like. It’s the best. It’s the best feeling in the world.

Natalie Brooks 46:31
And no, like, it’s the best, you know, I was fired from jobs. I was had my probation extended, which is this thing in the UK where you kind of they say you continue working here, but like will fire you at any moment. Which is quite stressful. So yeah, I had my probation extended, I got fired, you know, I had so many moments of annual reviews where people being like, Yeah, could you just like double check your work? And I’m like, sure, that will make a difference. Right, right. And, you know, I felt all the things that I want to help people with, like, I felt stupid, I felt not good enough. I felt like I wasn’t gonna succeed. And so like, it feels great. To change that for myself. It feels so good to see when it like clicks in someone’s eyes for them as well. And you’re like, yes. Come join me The waters are fine. Like, you know, come come to the other side. Yeah, we actually put up on our Instagram yesterday, a post that was like, I’m in my I don’t care about my dyslexic mistakes era. And we that thought that it would do well. It’s currently reached 80,000 people. And in less than 24 hours, with like, 1700 likes, it’s just exploding. Like every single time me and my team are refreshing. And we’re like, oh, okay, that’s an extra 10,000. Because, you know, people don’t want to feel like that anymore. And you know, we want to help them achieve that. Oh,

Kristen Carder 48:02
okay, tell us where to find you tell us how to work with you tell us all the things.

Natalie Brooks 48:07
So it’s dyslexia and adults. And we’re across Instagram, Tik Tok, and LinkedIn, and we have a podcast as well. And what we offer is you can either do one on one coaching directly with me, or we have a membership that breaks down all of the things that we’ve talked about, but also alongside of a community of people who are in exactly the same boat as you trying to achieve exactly the same thing as you because like I said, the number one thing that we need to change is not just systems and seeing the strengths, but confidence. And if you feel alone, and you feel like it’s just you who’s struggling with this, then you will not build back up your confidence. And we need to change that we need to feel proud of our brains and who we are. So

Kristen Carder 48:49
much healing can happen in community. So my gosh, I just cannot recommend enough the value of whatever it is that you’re struggling with healing that within a community of people who experienced the same struggles because what you get to see as a reflection of who you are, and other people, and there’s so much less shame when you see someone else that you can admire. And they’re struggling with it. And you’re like, Oh, if they’re not the worst human in the world, and they struggle with that. Maybe I’m not the worst human in the world. And I know that’s like, such a low bar, but sub I feel like for so many of our listeners, that’s where they’re starting is like at that very low bar and just seeing in other people like oh, there’s strength there and there’s goodness there and and I just love communities.

Natalie Brooks 49:41
Yeah, no, are you You did a way better job of explaining it than I do. I agree. It’s like, you can always see these things and not you and yourself until you see them and other people and you’re like, hang on, they’re putting themselves down like that. Why? And you’re like, oh, that’s what I do. Oh, yeah. So yeah, completely Right, it’s really, really important to connect with other neurodiverse people, you know, set up an employee resource group and your business, you know, join spaces like these, whatever it is, opening up and creating connection is going to be really invaluable. Huge.

Kristen Carder 50:16
Thank you, Natalie, I appreciate you so much. Thanks for being here.

Natalie Brooks 50:20
Thank you so much for having me. If

Kristen Carder 50:22
you’re being treated for your ADHD, but you still don’t feel like you’re reaching your potential, you’ve got to join focused. It’s my monthly coaching membership where I teach you how to tame your wild thoughts and create the life that you’ve always wanted. No matter what season of life you’re in, or where you are in the world focused is for you. All materials and call recordings are stored in the site for you to access at your convenience. Go to Ihaveadhd.com/focused for all the info