I HAVE ADHD PODCAST
October 10, 2023
Your Brain's Not Broken with Dr. Tamara Rosier
Tamara Rosier, Ph.D., has joined me for a discussion on my absolute favorite sections of her book, Your Brain’s Not Broken. Tamara is a fellow ADHD coach and the founder of the ADHD Center of West Michigan.
We waste no time at all diving into her personal journey to an ADHD diagnosis at 40 years young and what living day-to-day with this neurodivergent disorder has looked like throughout her life. You’ll notice a common theme in being her authentic self while simultaneously working through how to connect with and be sensitive to the neurotypical community.
I highly encourage all of my listeners to check out Your Brain’s Not Broken, whether in a physical book or audiobook format, because Tamara has such a unique way of changing readers’ perceptions and bringing clarity to concepts that are difficult for ADHDers, like emotional regulation and setting boundaries.
In this episode, we cover a wide range of topics in her book, such as masking, vulnerability, convergent vs. divergent thinking and the individual houses (or psyches) we all have to protect and maintain for a healthy mind.
It’s a beautiful and super satisfying conversation on so many aspects of living life with ADHD that I could have kept talking to Tamara for hours! So settle in and consider having a book discussion with other friends and loved ones who might benefit from this content.
You can learn more about the book and Tamara at TamaraRosier.com.
LEARN MORE ABOUT THE TOPICS DISCUSSED IN THIS EPISODE
PRINTABLE ADHD SYMPTOM LIST
This totally free printable includes a psychologist-approved list of symptoms that adults with ADHD commonly experience. This could give you the answers you’ve been begging for your entire life.
Kristen Carder 0:05
Welcome to the I have ADHD podcast, where it’s all about education, encouragement and coaching for adults with ADHD. I’m your host, Kristen Carter and I have ADHD. Let’s chat about the frustrations, humor and challenges of adulting relationships working and achieving with this neurodevelopmental disorder. I’ll help you understand your unique brain. Unlock your potential and move from point A to point B. Hey, what’s up, this is Kristen Carter and you are listening to the I have ADHD podcast. I am medicated. I am caffeinated. I am regulated. And I am 100%. Ready to Roll 100% Ready to Roll ready to welcome you to this episode Today. So glad that you’re here. So glad that you decided to press play on this podcast. I heard a stat. I don’t know if I’ve shared it recently, that there are now 5 million podcasts out there in the universe. That’s a lot. You’ve got a lot of options. And so the fact that you press play on this one, I just want to say thanks, I appreciate you. I appreciate your time, your effort, your energy, your attention, I know that it is hard to come by. And I really, really appreciate it. Glad you’re here. If you haven’t already done it, go ahead and press subscribe or follow or whatever to this show. That way it’s going to appear in your podcast feed magically, every single Tuesday. And you won’t forget that it exists. Because if you have ADHD, you’ve got an out of sight out of mind brain so you will likely forget that this podcast exists. If you don’t subscribe to it. So you can do it right now as you’re listening. today. We are just gonna have a great show. I have Tamra Rozier, PhD on the show today. And she wrote a book called your brains not broken. How’s that for a title? Your brain is not broken strategies for navigating your emotions and life with ADHD. I can’t wait for you to hear from Tamra. She’s a gem. She’s a hoot. She has she has the whole package. I had so much fun chatting with her. It was really, really great. I feel like I met a kindred spirit. And that doesn’t happen all the time. I enjoy all of the guests that I get to interview but I felt like I really connected with Tamra in a special way so that that was a lot of fun for me. Speaking of fun for me, the Eagles are three and all right now. Yeah, you heard it. We’re talking about the Philadelphia Eagles. They are three and oh, and they’re looking real, real good. Like they’re looking so good. And I know this podcast isn’t going to come out for a little while so they might not still be three now they might be five now by the time this podcast comes out. But y’all it’s football season in the Philadelphia area and I am here to pledge my allegiance to those Philadelphia Eagles. and last night the Phillies clinched the playoffs, meaning that the Phillies are now in the playoffs. So we’ve got Philly baseball, going into the playoffs and Philly football at three now. So we’re good, we’re in a good mood. I’ve upended my steps today. I am very excited as well because I have a once a year tradition with my husband and our best friends that we go to the leader Krons for Oktoberfest, and that is this weekend. I wear a German hat. My husband wears German suspenders. We drink German beer, and we have the best. We have the best time it is such a funny like Pennsylvania Dutch German tradition. I actually don’t know if it’s Pennsylvania Dutch or German, I probably shouldn’t lump those two together because I actually think they’re separate. So self correction not really sure. But there’s a lot of German and Pennsylvania Dutch influence in this area in the reading PA area and oh my gosh, we have the best time it is so fun. There’s a lot of people dressed up in German traditional dress and the beer is flowing just beautifully and we have so much fun. We have these huge Stein’s but anyway, we bring our own beer steins and I mean, I can handle beer but like I’m not going to like your girl doesn’t get drunk. Okay, but I feel like that needs to be said. But gosh, I love beer. It’s so delicious. And yeah, if you’re paying attention to my Instagram, you’ll get to see it and then And you’ll hear this on the podcast. So I’m excited. I, like I said, have a little pep in my step today. We’re doing great with the sports. We have big plans this weekend for the leader Krons. Life is good. Life is really really good. Let me introduce you to today’s guests because as excited as I am today just about life apparently, I’m really even more excited for you to hear from Tamra rosier. Tamra, has been a professor, a college administrator, a leadership consultant, a high school teacher, a business owner, and an ADHD coach. First of all, relatable, like a woman of many trades love it. Through those adventures, Dr. rosier has developed valuable insight into ADHD and how it affects one’s life. As founder of the ADHD center of West Michigan. She leads a team of coaches, therapists and speech pathologists to help individuals, parents and families develop skills to live with ADHD effectively. I want to read you one line from the introduction of her book. It’s on page 16. And here’s what she says. She says, I’ve come to the conclusion that I cannot fake being neurotypical any longer. I love it. I love that I love this book. I highly recommend it. We have it linked in the show notes. Go ahead and purchase it. Listen to it, whatever. I know you’re going to enjoy it. I really, really, really did. Please welcome with me. Dr. Tamra rosier. Tamra, thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate you being on the podcast.
Dr. Tamara Rosier 6:34
It is a pleasure to be here. And I love your podcast. And you’re my people. So it’s, it’s good to be here.
Kristen Carder 6:42
Well, I felt that immediately as soon as you showed up. And like we just dove right in. And it was. It’s so connecting to just know, we have ADHD and we can match each other’s energy. And there’s just something very profound about that.
Dr. Tamara Rosier 6:56
Yeah. Have you ever walked into a room where you’re bringing your whole ADHD energy? And the neurotypicals kind of seem like flustered by it? Like, whoa, what’s, what’s this woman doing right now?
Kristen Carder 7:09
That’s and then the mask goes on? Yeah. And then you’re like,
Dr. Tamara Rosier 7:13
Oh, crap, I’m sorry. I’m sorry. Let me dig in my bag. I got to put on my neurotypical gear. Okay. Hi. How are you doing today?
Kristen Carder 7:22
Gotta turn that temperature gauge way down. And yeah, and sometimes it’s, it’s exhausting. But it’s also annoying, because I do enjoy bringing my full self to the table. And so I just appreciate you doing that with me this morning. It’s really fun.
Dr. Tamara Rosier 7:37
I love it. You know, I just want to talk about masking. Is that okay? Go. So I wanted you know, this is a fine line, we have to walk. Because if I want to truly connect with other people, if I bring my full ADHD divergent thinking, it doesn’t. Other people get overwhelmed. Yeah. And so I do, I don’t call it masking. I do regulate. Because I it’s I’m not doing it I’ve insecurity. I’m doing it because I’m like, Oh, right. I want to be a good communicator, and you don’t speak ADHD. And so I treat it like I’m talking in a foreign language. It’s clunky, and I’m not, I’m not a native speaker. But I can I can speak for a while. And then I need to go back to my peeps. And the reason I’m saying that is because I think masking has something to do with. I’m not okay with who I am. But if I’m speaking another language, I’m okay with who I am. I understand what I bring. I mean, I bring a tidal wave of emotional energy. But I also love others enough to go, I get it, you don’t speak that language. It’s like when I traveled to another country, I really make an effort. Even though I sound like an idiot, to speak their language, and people are so appreciative. Like, Thank you, Brenda, for showing up and trying to connect with me. And so I take that kind of perspective.
Kristen Carder 9:20
I appreciate that so much, because there definitely is a negative connotation to masking. Especially, you know, when we talk about it in a group of ADHD, or when we talk about, like, the effort that goes into masking, it usually is a diminishing of self. And it usually is like, oh, I need to hide these parts of me in order to be accepted. And I love this reframe of, I’m not necessarily hiding parts of me. I just know that I need to speak the other person’s language if I want to connect with them.
Dr. Tamara Rosier 9:52
Right. Beautiful. I really appreciate so. And I’m not saying you know, I’m actually opposed. was to masking. In fact, in my next book I’m writing about, you know how to be your authentic self. But your authentic self isn’t just letting it all hang out. your authentic self is kind of this ideal, like, how can I love and can communicate with people better? And be less egocentric actually.
Kristen Carder 10:21
So yes, that’s really interesting, because it seems like that would provide so much more connection. Right? Rather than disconnecting through the thought of, oh, great, now I have to put on my mask and pretend to be someone that I’m not that creates massive disconnection.
Dr. Tamara Rosier 10:39
It does and, and connecting for ADHD folks is so important. Because when we connect emotionally with people, it means everything. And, and I want us to connect. I also understand, like, I also don’t want to bulldoze people over. And so I just want to increase my awareness of, okay, I’m going to actually take a breath between sentences, and check in how are you doing with what I just said? It’s exhausting. By the way, I’m not gonna say it’s easy.
Kristen Carder 11:12
It is a skill, right? That we have to or we don’t have to, but that we can develop in order to foster a deeper connection. But I will still go back to like our first meeting where you brought a ton of energy. And I was like, Oh, this woman can handle it.
Dr. Tamara Rosier 11:29
Oh, and I love it because you speak ADHD fluently, right? I know, my people. I know my people immediately. And I love my people. Yeah. I mean, that’s, I’ve been, you know, on a lot of podcast, and there’s a lot of times I’m interviewed. And I’m like, oh, this person doesn’t understand they have ADHD. Yeah. And that’s why we’re connecting so well. But I can’t tell about it inside. They’re like Tamar, don’t tell them. Don’t tell them. Like pop up.
Kristen Carder 11:57
I don’t know. I resonate with that so deeply, because you, you can just sniff it out. You know, like, you got a really good sniffer. And when that happens, I also am holding back like, it is not my place to say Have you considered,
Dr. Tamara Rosier 12:18
hey, we’re connecting really well. And there’s a reason it is called ADHD.
Kristen Carder 12:22
Yeah. Why do you think that is? I love it. Tell us your ADHD journey. What does that look like for you? Yeah,
Dr. Tamara Rosier 12:31
well, I’m super old. And so my ADHD journey? Well, I just kind of say it to make the point to, you know, the youngsters listening.
Kristen Carder 12:40
I gave her a lark I gave her she’s got blonde bombshell sitting in front of me. So like, super old. I just, I’m gonna question that.
Dr. Tamara Rosier 12:50
Well, I am in my 50s. So I make a point of saying that because generationally, I grew up in a time when ADHD was the naughty boy syndrome. And girls just didn’t have it. Yeah, so in high school. I really just thought I was dumb. Yeah. And why wouldn’t I? I couldn’t get to places on time. I didn’t turn in homework on time, and much more fun socializing. And this is back in the 80s. I was a big haired airhead. Oh, eight. Yeah. And I just really, truly believed I wasn’t that smart. And so I went to college didn’t go well, the first semester, as one might predict. I figured it out. But I remember my first career, by the way, like ADHD folks, too. I have four different careers. Love Ed’s first career, I was a secondary school teacher. So high school. And I was learning about this thing in our mainstreaming class, we don’t even use this language anymore. The idea Act was fairly new back then, about ADHD, and I read all the symptoms. I remember calling my identical dad. I think I read HD, this fits. And he’s like, No, that’s a made up disease. And he goes, according to that her whole family has it all joke’s on us. Because, yes, because we do. Because both both of my parents habit, and which means genetically, I was screwed. So it’s funny because, like in our family, that was not natural culture. Right. So I was teaching high school. And I noticed I was really good at teaching a certain population. And you can guess what they are. They’re what? Back then we call the at risk kids. And they were a lot of them. Were very smart. Just very divergently thinking. Yeah, I was so good at teaching them. And I’m not trying to brag, but they were by people. Yeah, make them laugh, because I was young enough and hip enough because they thought it was actually a cool young teacher. At we were second generation actually, they would laugh at my jokes, I’d get them entertained. When we taught Macbeth, we’d have sword fights, we’d like have him prompt to like analysis of their play. Like, I’d be like, okay and prompt to, you know, one group go out and you plan the scene. And then the rest of us would kind of dissect it and see what was accurate and where they took liberties. It was fun, cool. And I had at risk kids doing things more complicated than the honors classes I taught. Yeah. Frankly, the honors classes were doubters for me. They’re just kind of duck cups. They weren’t that much fun. But all that to say is, when I was teaching, I’m like, wait a minute, why am I having so much fun teaching? All the other people around me are hating their jobs, and I’m loving my job, which is an ADHD thing. But I never quite put it together and like, yeah, I probably have ADHD, never thought of it. Got my PhD. I was a professor of educational psychology. Wow. Still didn’t really seek diagnosis. And I just really learned good ways of coping. So finally, in my early 40s, that’s when I was diagnosed.
Kristen Carder 16:19
And what made you finally seek out a diagnosis? What was the tipping point for you?
Dr. Tamara Rosier 16:24
It’s the parental story. My daughter was diagnosed with ADHD. Yeah. And I remember talking to her, I’m like, Hey, honey, your brain is like mommy’s brain. And Mommy’s brain does it this way. Now, this is also 20 years ago, because she’s 27 now. And so meds were really the first. The first frontline thing that we did, back then the research was saying, hey, behavioral than meds. And we didn’t have that many generation of meds out there. So yeah, that’s what I did. Now with, I would do it differently. But we do it more. So yeah. So then I’m like, You know what, for my daughter’s sake, I owe it to her to figure this out. And I want her not to be alone in the world. I always felt alone. So I kind of started the journey.
Kristen Carder 17:19
That’s beautiful. Like, pause to wish that all of our parents had done that. Like what an amazing example of moving the needle forward, generationally so beautiful.
Dr. Tamara Rosier 17:34
You know, I talked about that, in my new book. A lot of us because we had ADHD. ADHD comes with kind of a drunken goat rodeo kind of feel and families. You think, in fact, yeah, the first the first chapter is called Welcome to the goat rodeo. The book is talking about like, Hey, you don’t have to come from a perfect family to be a healthy family member. And how can we do better and still love our parents? And understand they do what was capable, what they were capable of. And, you know, I, I said to my daughters, I’m sorry, didn’t medicate you. But I was going with the best practice research. Right. Right. Right. Yeah. And so yeah.
Kristen Carder 18:24
I love it. And then once you get into the field of helping people with ADHD, so you’re an ADHD coach, and you’re directing that what is your center called ADHD center be in Michigan?
Dr. Tamara Rosier 18:35
Yep. ADHD center in West Michigan. And my dream for the center and it’s actually coming to fruition is to have coaches, therapists, speech, language pathologist, academic coaches, like all of us like a wraparound service for ADHD folks. Wow. That’s amazing. Yeah. And so yeah, that’s,
Kristen Carder 18:57
and then you’re going to create a franchise model for every single state, right?
Dr. Tamara Rosier 19:05
Actually, probably not. But I’m pretty good, a cadre of therapist who are certified in different states.
Kristen Carder 19:14
Love Yeah, that’s really, really good. So that’s amazing. And so what led you to that work? Was it your daughters and your own experience, and then just wanting to learn more and help other people? I’m assuming I’m making so many essential.
Dr. Tamara Rosier 19:28
It that would be very logical for you to us. So, but it was more more random than that. It seems. So I was in higher ed. I was a dean at a small college, and that college hit major financial and I knew it when I took the job. That was possibility. So they cut a lot of the middle positions, and there’s no one more middle than a dean. And so they cut my position. And I was kind of like What am I going to do with my life? And to kind of put me back like, Oh, dear, I have this PhD, what am I going to do? I had coffee with a friend of mine, who is a specialist in ADHD. And he said, you know, you’d make a great ADHD coach. And I said, What’s that? Is that really a thing? And he likes to tell the story, because he’s like, and then two years later, you’re president of the ACO, you’re opening the center. And so I once I figure things out, I to that quickly, it just takes me a while to figure it out.
Kristen Carder 20:40
Oh, never in my life have I resonated so deeply with the statement.
Dr. Tamara Rosier 20:45
Right? So, I mean, it would be actual to kind of think like that, but all of a sudden, then my life started to come together, like ADHD coaching, is what I want to do. And so yeah,
Kristen Carder 20:58
that’s beautiful. So you wrote the book, your brains not broken. And I read it this week, it’s a great book, I hope that everyone listening will just right now hop over to Amazon, or wherever you buy your books, and just go ahead and order the book, because it’s, it is a really, really good description of what it’s like to have ADHD and the different components that go into kind of building awareness, building your skills, and especially with emotional regulation, like learning about your own emotions. And so I just want to honor you and appreciate the work that you’ve done, right? I mean, truly, it’s one of my dreams to write a book. And so any one with ADHD, who has written a legit, like, very good book with it, about ADHD, I’m like, oh, that’s the dream, like, well done. Truly.
Dr. Tamara Rosier 21:51
Well. Thank you. And it’s very kind for you to read it. Because I appreciate you taking the time. When I was writing, I was a little nervous. Because I, it was really difficult to talk about the emotional side of ADHD. And it was really nervous, because not a lot of books were doing that. And I’m like, Oh, well, I’m kind of exposing myself. Yeah, just by writing about this topic. What did people laugh at me? Yeah. I felt like sometimes I’m like, Oh, am I too windy? Will people think I’m too windy about emotions. But I’m just like, hey, guys, this is really hard, that we have to pay attention to the emotional dysregulation. I’m glad I took a risk. Because I get each week I get notes from readers saying, this has changed how I view ADHD, this has helped me help me. So I am glad I was vulnerable. But wow, it seems like a huge risk.
Kristen Carder 22:54
So yeah, there’s something to be said for the vulnerability connection component. And what I mean by that is the more vulnerable someone is, the deeper the connection possibility on the other end for the recipient for the reader or listener, right. And so I always find that the more vulnerable I am, and and the more that I want to vomit in response to my own vulnerability. Exactly. Right. The more connected the listener, the reader, the recipient of that is, and I just think that’s so profound and also annoying. Why does it take vulnerability? It’s so annoying.
Dr. Tamara Rosier 23:37
Can I tell you what happened to me? I actually write about this in the next book, two weeks before the book was come out. In other words, it’s printed. Right, like it’s happening. It’s happening. I have a huge breakdown. And all and I talked about this my next book, oh, my EDC monkey start chattering Yeah, anxiety monkeys, like we’ve made a big fool of ourselves. mistakes have been made. And the critical monkey is like, yeah, why do you think you can be an author, you’re not an author, and all the monkeys were ganging up on me. And it gives me goosebumps to talk about because I literally was a basket case like, mistakes have been made. I need to call the publisher and go, Yeah, this is wrong. Pull everything. And then like our
Kristen Carder 24:22
mission abort mission.
Dr. Tamara Rosier 24:26
takes seven days. Why did I talk? Why was I so honest? Yeah. I’m a big fat dummy. I need to stop. And I’m telling you this. Because I think this is the ADHD journey. Like we have that we’re naturally able to be vulnerable, and said, We regret the whole thing. We read Brene Brown really, girl I get you. I’m glad. I’m glad you’re doing what you’re doing. But I can’t buy your crap right now because I’ve made big mistakes. Yeah. So we fight with Brene in her heads totally. And I love her. She speaks to us. But I so I think the ADHD person, like has to struggle with them. Yeah. Yeah, like this vulnerability, we can be vulnerable. And that just regret the heck out of it.
Kristen Carder 25:15
Yeah. And I think for good reason, because Hello, so many of us have experienced trauma because of our vulnerabilities. And so of course, we’re like, oh, I’m unsafe, this is unsafe. I’m setting myself up for failure.
Dr. Tamara Rosier 25:30
Yes. Okay. That’s a beautiful insight. Because remember, ADHD brains are very susceptible to trauma. Because of some health concerns, I just had DNA worked on it, it was interesting. There are genes associated with your response to trauma. In other words, you’re more likely to respond more intensely to trauma. Wow. And I’m like, Yeah, and that’s part of ADHD, my friend. But they don’t call it ADHD in the DNA, they really limit their how they diagnose ADHD. And they don’t diagnose it in DNA, but you get when you talk about ADHD, but there’s actually a gene that many of us carry that makes us susceptible to travel.
Kristen Carder 26:18
Wow. Wow. I mean, I would love to go down a rabbit hole, which I am not going to do about this. ADHD, trauma complex CPTSD. Like all of that, let’s put a pin in that because I think we could chat about it. But I want to talk about your book. And I want to talk about emotional regulation, as you’ve been describing, was a very vulnerable topic for you to write about. Talk to me about your description of emotions for people with ADHD as being an on off switch, rather than a neurotypical person would have more of like a dimmer switch. I really appreciated your perspective on that. Can you talk about that? A little bit?
Dr. Tamara Rosier 26:56
Yeah. So I’m gonna nerd out a little bit about the brain. But yeah, I’ll come right back to you here for it. Okay, so if your listeners tap their forehead, that is the prefrontal cortex. And this is a beautiful modern amenity that kind of acts as this like home Butler going, No, we’re not going to respond to that. We’re going to screen that we’re going to put that on hold, we’re going to do this. And it actually manages our emotions. And it does these great things like helps us plan short term memory is very useful there. You know, just even remembering where you parked your car. Yeah, right. If you think those of us with ADHD, we lack access, reliable access to our prefrontal cortex. Well, that’s pretty hard in the modern world. That means we’re having to figure things out. My new book I talked about is like a hound dog having to find the trail all the time, zigzagging to pick up the trail. That’s what our brains have to do. It’s harder. Yeah. And so brains are hugely miraculous in neuroplasticity. So what we do is we go, Okay, we’re gonna go back to basics, we’re gonna go back to though if your listeners kind of cut their ear, that’s where the limbic system is in their brain. And there’s the amygdala tucked in the limbic system. And the amygdala is the fight flight, freeze, or appease kind of response. And so our brains like, okay, alright, it’s clear, we don’t have a butler, we don’t have that prefrontal cortex. So this is what we’re going to do, we’re going to make our amygdala very important. And that’s just going to tell us when there’s a danger. And so we start to respond. Like, anytime we sense danger, like me, right before the book was released, like, oh, grab, that will make the law making sense of the world sensing danger. Yeah. No, if I had, if I were neurotypical, the butler in my little prefrontal cortex would go, ma’am, you can turn that down a little bit because this this is right. Is it really personal? And it could kind of help me control the volume instead? I don’t have a butler. Yeah, I have a screaming neighbor. And so the screaming neighbors like ah, I’m pretty sure we screwed up. And so my emotions are either on or off. I or know it and I’m sure your your listeners know this feeling if you have ADHD, either you feel big about it. Or nothing. Yeah. Yeah, it literally is apathy. Like I just don’t care. Like what do you want to eat today? I don’t I just don’t care. I got to have this.
Kristen Carder 29:52
Exactly. Exactly. Yeah, the the light switch analogy was so helpful to me because I think that that perfectly describes the jump between our emotional experience. It’s like I’m flat, nothing here, and then all of a sudden heightened emotions and it’s like, Whoa, where’d you come from? Like, we were just chilling. And my husband, God bless him. It’s like, it’s like whiplash, right? It’s like what we were fighting. Now, I didn’t realize that this was happening, like, what’s going on?
Dr. Tamara Rosier 30:29
Right? And you’re like, I didn’t know what hit these big emotions, though. I have big emotions.
Kristen Carder 30:33
Yes, yes. Versus the dimmer switch for someone who’s no typical. So they would experience a greater spectrum of emotion.
Dr. Tamara Rosier 30:43
Yes, in the book I talked about, we experienced, let’s say, on a scale of one to 10, those of us with ADHD experience emotions at one or two, very, like, barely anything, registering or nine or 10. So we’re missing that middle ground. Whereas neurotypical people on a regular fashion, they tend to experience 456 on a daily basis. It’s so much easier to be them emotionally. Because we I go from I have big feelings about everything. Yeah, about the chair and sitting in today. I’m like, I don’t really like this chair, but I’ll make it work. But I have emotions about it. Yeah, right. I have emotions about everything that I come in contact with. I have emotions about all my senses. Like the sound goes off and like, oh, my gosh, I hate that sound. Right. Right. So I have emotions everywhere. Let me tell you, that’s an exhausting way to live. Yeah. And I’m just gonna say to your listener, just because it’s exhausting doesn’t mean we really have a choice. Our choice is to acknowledge it. And refuel. Yeah. And also take responsibility for our behavior. So like, if I’m losing it at a 10 on someone that’s, you know, that’s my bad. Totally. If I’m like, my shoes are too tight. I can’t take it. Like, that’s no one’s fault. Right? I need to respond appropriately, even though I have.
Kristen Carder 32:20
And now a word from our sponsor. Hey, Kristen here. I’m the host of this podcast, an ADHD expert and a certified life coach who’s helped hundreds of adults with ADHD understand their unique brains and make real changes in their lives. If you’re not sure what a life coaches, let me tell you, a life coach is someone who helps you achieve your goals like a personal trainer for your life. A life coach is a guide who holds your hand along the way as you take baby step after baby step to accomplish the things that you want to accomplish. A good life coach is a trained expert, who knows how to look at situations or situations with non judgmental neutrality, and offer you solutions that you’ve probably never even considered before. If you’re being treated for your ADHD, and maybe even you’ve done some work in therapy, and you want to add to your scaffolding of support, you’ve got to join my group coaching, program focused. Focused is where functional adults with ADHD surround each other with encouragement and support. And I lead the way with innovative and creative solutions to help you fully accept yourself, understand your ADHD, and create the life that you’ve always wanted to create, even with ADHD. Go to I have adhd.com/focused to join. And I hope to see you in our community today. What are your suggestions for developing more of a range or like a deeper, wider, fuller spectrum for emotion?
Dr. Tamara Rosier 34:01
So I do this in the book and I am not going to be able to get into this fully. But instead of trying to go Hey, back it down to a five. That’s just not a thing we do. Okay, let’s just be really honest. So I built a quadrant system. If you go to my author’s website, you can download the quadrant system. Tamra rosier.com. And the quadrant system will help people go which quadrant Am I in? Yeah, how am I feeling? What do I want to do? Because I’m in this quadrant. And so I found that my clients can actually work with the quadrant system easier than we’ll just don’t have bigger, big feelings about this. Oh, really? Okay.
Kristen Carder 34:44
Thanks for that. Yeah, appreciate it. So,
Dr. Tamara Rosier 34:46
I want to state this very clearly emotional regulation for us isn’t toning down our emotions. It’s making sure they don’t hurt others or selves. That That’s what emotional regulation is for us. And I go into that a lot in my new book. Get it? So I’m talking about the new book because I’m wrapping up the manuscript right now. And true to ADHD passion. That’s all that’s on my mind. So
Kristen Carder 35:14
literally the only thing we can think about, like a book dead to me new book, let’s go
Dr. Tamara Rosier 35:22
to get me. Sorry, I realized I keep bringing it up. I’m like, Well, yeah, that’s because I’m putting the last touches before I send it to the editor.
Kristen Carder 35:35
Question, are you planning for the panic attack? You know, that will likely ensue two weeks before book release.
Dr. Tamara Rosier 35:42
Okay, so this time, I was even more vulnerable. And I named it in the book. I even run up Bernie’s name. I get I get her sister’s gonna, you know, say this. I think it’s fungible. Yeah. And I’m already feeling tension sharing this. And so I’m already kind of going camera. You’ve already said too much. Yeah. Because it’s about families. And my family is a drunken goat rodeo, and I had trauma from it. I had to kind of name it. Yeah, not, you know, oh, poor me. But in a lot, guys. I get it. families aren’t perfect. Yeah. And the damage us. But you can move on. And and so I kind of that’s one of the themes in the book. I don’t hit on my personal story a lot. But I did feel like I had to share it. Sure. Because I didn’t want someone reading you like, Well, that’s easy for you to say you come from a perfect family. Right? Everybody go? Hold my dear. This is Oh, my gosh,
Kristen Carder 36:43
I love it. I can’t wait for you to come back to talk about that book. But
Dr. Tamara Rosier 36:49
come back anytime you
Kristen Carder 36:51
have. Oh, tomorrow. You’re good. Okay. Okay. I think that seeing your evolution through the books, talking about ADHD, and then going even deeper, and talking about family and naming trauma, that is going to be such a beautiful example, to those of us in this space to continue that journey as well. Because what I find with my clients and with myself is we heal ADHD through layers. And like the first layer is this like triage layer where it’s just like, let’s just stop the bleeding. And make sure there’s no like blunt trauma to the brain, like we usually do, like, triage, right? And then we can go a little deeper and develop some executive functioning skills. And then once we’re like doing, okay, if we want to, then there’s an invitation to Hey, do you want to go even deeper? And and look at some of this trauma? And I just think that that’s, I’m so glad that you are starting that conversation with your next book.
Dr. Tamara Rosier 37:55
Well, it’s, it’s interesting, because I know I couldn’t get into trauma. Because I’m not equipped to. I’m not a therapist, right. But what I can do is just kind of frame it. Yeah. And in the book, I kept going, and if this is an issue, yeah, I’ll seek a
Kristen Carder 38:12
Yes, exactly, exactly.
Dr. Tamara Rosier 38:15
What I’m trying to do is frame it for people and not solve it for people. I mean, we’re ADHD coaches, right, that’s totally
Kristen Carder 38:21
kind of what we do. So good. One of the points that you made in the book that I thought was really interesting that I want to highlight is that a lot of times people with ADHD, make simple tasks more difficult than they need to be. And you call it creating Rube Goldberg machines. And I resonated with this so much. Would you talk about that for a second? Why do people with ADHD take seemingly simple things and make them more difficult than they need to be?
Dr. Tamara Rosier 38:55
Well, it’s not a character flaw. And it’s not because we’re dumb. In fact, quite the opposite. We have brilliant imaginations. Yeah. And so there’s a difference between convergent thinking and divergent thinking. Convergent thinking is what ADHD people find very boring. It’s first we do this, then this then this, like baking, convergent thinking, Hades. Actually, I hate baking. Right? Do you get it? If you get a measurement off? You’ve messed up the whole thing. Yeah, right. Excuse me, that’s convergent. Divergent, is what we love to do. We take one idea and blow it up into millions of pieces. And then we’re like, wow, how are these pieces related? We love watching relationships happen. Meaning between ideas. And by the way, when we use divergent thinking, we can really look like geniuses. Yeah. But the problem is when there’s a simple task to be done are divergent thinking doesn’t help us? Yeah. Because we want to think of creative ways to do it, instead of just unloading the dishwasher. Right? And just for your listeners, Rube Goldberg machines, probably if you have a kid in middle school, usually they have to create one. It’s, it’s like, a funny way to get something normal done. Right? Like there’s a Rube Goldberg machine that have a man wiping his mouth with a napkin. And all these things like the bowling ball has to go down this ramp, it has to knock over these dominoes. It has to light the candle that
Kristen Carder 40:38
Yeah, yeah. So when something is mundane, systematic, step by step, our brains go and kneel that is boring. No, thank you don’t want to do it. And so we either avoid it. Or we create a fancy creative, but like, it’s gonna take way too long and cost us a lot of energy way to get it done.
Dr. Tamara Rosier 41:01
Yes. So I’m going to tell a story on my husband, because he is the best are a Rube Goldberg machines. Does he have ADHD? Yes. Which makes our house challenging. Amazing. Like, every Thursday, we’re holding our breath, like, did we get the trash out? It’s a whole celebration every week. Yeah. neurotypicals don’t have that kind of excitement about the trash, but we do. So anyway, let’s say there’s something to kind of figure out around the house. And his first idea, will usually be the most labor intensive Rube Goldberg machine. And so I listen. Because I’ve learned not to say, Hey, that’s a really dumb idea. So because that’s not building relationship. So I listen to the whole idea in my head. I’m like, Tamra, don’t let your divergent thinking go. Wow, that sounds interesting. I’m like, nope, nope. Keep it simple. Keep it simple. Keep it simple. And I keep repeating that to myself. And they say, yeah, yeah, that’s one way to do it. And then I say, or, and I treat it as like a little game to go. What’s the simplest way? Yeah, what’s the anti Rube Goldberg approach? We had a situation we just put up this new beautiful aluminum fence around our yard. And our frickin frickin dogs kept getting out of it, man, because aluminum bends. And so they called they can walk through the fence. Super cool. And so we’re like, okay, what are we going to do? And my husband’s like, we’re going to drill a hole. If we have a huge backyard, this was a huge fencing project, to drill a hole in every little one and run a wire through, dear Lord, like, yeah, yeah. Well, yes, that’s one idea. Or, and I said, where we could just put up this mesh. With these ties in the mesh, by the way, you can’t it’s a wire mesh. You can’t see it really? At all. He goes, Well, I guess we could do it that way. Yeah, dude, like, one, it’s easier doesn’t wreck the integrity of the right. I’ve learned not to go yet. Your Rube Goldberg approach was stupid, right. But I do listen, like, oh, that’s Rube Goldberg. So now I call out the Rube Goldberg approaches in myself. And I’ll say, hey, and I’ll get someone who doesn’t have ADHD in our family. Yeah, go, Hey, I don’t want a Rube Goldberg this, I think this is the simplest way do you think this is the simplest labs, so I use someone else’s prefrontal cortex to kind of check my thinking,
Kristen Carder 43:47
Oh, my gosh, the same. I mean, on that same, and when you develop relationships that are safe enough to be able to give your idea and and then say like, Hey, is this the simplest way, and someone will still honor your idea and just be like, right? Like, not treat you like you’re stupid, but just say, Hey, I think there is a simpler way, and then you can receive that. It’s magic. My husband when we first got married, would point out. Now I’m looking back and saying, oh, yeah, it was that totally Rube Goldberg’s about all the things that I would do? And he would just be like, I’m not really sure why. And He’s so gentle, and but he’s so systematic and practical and neurotypical. And he’ll just be like, I’m not really sure why you want to do it that way when we could just and he would just explain the most simple step by step. And I’d be like, oh, yeah, that makes a lot more sense. But I come from a family of Rube Goldberg machine experts, I would say yes,
Dr. Tamara Rosier 44:52
of course. And remember, sometimes, we can look like geniuses for sure. We use this in The right way. It’s it looks like we’re geniuses, when we use it at the wrong time. We’re just Rube Goldberg machines.
Kristen Carder 45:09
Right? So for. Right for complex tasks, it’s amazing.
Dr. Tamara Rosier 45:15
Right? I have been in so many meetings with neurotypicals, where they’ve been like, oh, I never thought of it that way. Right? Like, Wow, it’s so obvious to me. But that’s because I can connect very different ideas, right? And it’s a powerful, higher level way of thinking, you people actually neurotypical people will take classes, and how to be divergent. Every ADHD person’s like, no, that’s, that’s nothing we have to learn. Right? That, right. So that convergent is is very important to understand. Divergent thinking is very slower thinking. Slow thinking is like putting your foot on the, on the brakes. In divergent is like putting your foot on the gas pedal. Yeah, let’s just let this fly. Yeah, it means we have tons of ideas. It’s slow to execute. Yeah. And so I really encourage my clients to embrace their convergent thinking, even though it’s hard. Before we started recording, I told you what I wrote the book, I don’t, I can’t tell a story in order to tell a story from the inside out. Well, that’s how I write. That’s how people read. So I’m usually have to, like, get everything down on the paper. And guess what’s here I can use, and then move all the pieces around. And they usually have to move pieces around five or six times. And so you know, I’m a decent writer. But my convergent thinking still kicks my butt. Yeah, like you guys that because I work really hard as a writer to appear like I’m sequential.
Kristen Carder 46:56
Totally. And I think that those are the kinds of skills that we have to develop as we’re putting one foot in front of the other as an ADHD or who’s wanting to be successful, right? So it’s like, capitalizing on our strengths, but then really spending some significant time on our weaknesses and being able to recognize the difference between convergent and divergent thinking and being like, oh, okay, this one comes really easily. And then convergent thinking is much harder. So I need to spend more time on it. I was just talking to my son about this last night. He is in geometry this year, and it he does not have a geometry brain like he does not, he doesn’t like it, he doesn’t want to do it. And I’m like, unfortunately, with the things that you’re not naturally gifted at. You have to actually spend more time on it. And it’s annoying, because we don’t want to do anything that we’re not amazing at. But we have to recognize the things that we’re not good at and then say, Okay, can I give that some more time and energy and effort? Oh,
Dr. Tamara Rosier 47:56
I wish I wish every parent could hear what you just said. And then take that because you’re doing such good coaching of your child right there. One of my niches is high IQ, ADHD people, they’re highly problematic, very unhappy. In so the problem they come across is if it’s not easy for them, they’re not going to do it. And it leads to a fixed mindset. And they end up really unhappy and not reaching the heights. They could. Yeah, because I don’t like doing it. It’s not coming easily. So you’re coaching your son to go okay, it’s hard kind of push through that dissonance a little bit. It doesn’t mean you have to be a math major. It just means you have to learn the exercise of doing this. Yeah. Oh, so triple bonus parenting points. Like, thank you, Goldstar if I had one, because I mean,
Kristen Carder 48:59
I receive it because I have teenagers and they right. And so thank you I received that. Shifting really quick over to a conversation around boundaries, you have a chapter at the end of your brain snap broken on boundaries. And I absolutely love the way that you describe it. Because when I talk to my clients about boundaries, I talk to them about a boundary being like a fence or a property marker that separates my property from your property. And it helps me to understand kind of what’s within my fence, what’s within my area of control what I need to worry about what I don’t need to worry about that like you take it a step further. And I am so appreciative to you for this because you talk about creating your home. You don’t even start with the fence of the property. You talked about the home first and you’re talking about internal boundaries and I loved it. So could you please just Ride for us kind of how you think about boundaries and how you teach your clients about it.
Dr. Tamara Rosier 50:04
Yeah, thank you for liking that. You know, it’s kind of a nerdy approach to this. But I really, I didn’t know this as an ADHD person. And gosh, I wish I would have known it earlier. Right? So every ADHD person has a house, and their house is theirs. And guess what, folks, you don’t share a house with your spouse. I mean, you can have adjacent houses, but your house is your house. And that’s where that’s where the bodies are buried. I mean, when we have to kind of go through trauma, that’s how, right, but the key is, we don’t let just everyone in our house. And remember, earlier, we talked about the vulnerability of ADHD people. Some of us just have our doors and windows wide open going, anyone can walk into this house. Yeah, I’m an open book, people say. And so we need to respect our house, our house is where our personal growth happens. And it’s those deep, reflective thoughts. It’s sorting through the attic of what happened to my childhood. It’s going down into the cellar of the scary thoughts. But the work,
Kristen Carder 51:19
would you describe it as like the internal world? Is that what the house is? Yeah, it’s
Dr. Tamara Rosier 51:25
our internal world, but we have to respect it. So what a therapist does, and this is the difference between a coach and a therapist, a therapist says, knock knock. You’ve hired me to walk into the house with you. May I come in? Right? And they say yes. And you sit on the couch? And they’re like, well, which room do you want to go into? But then the therapist leaves, see if they don’t live in the house with you? Yeah. Because you’re responsible for this house?
Kristen Carder 51:54
Can I pause you here? You said, you have this quote here in this book, in this book, as if you didn’t write it. Sorry about that. That was awkward. You’re in this random book that I’m holding in my hand here. You said, not even the God of the universe will enter your house unless you allow him to, like the house is yours. I loved that. I was like, it’s really really your house.
Dr. Tamara Rosier 52:19
It’s yours. And out of respect of the universe will enter. Yeah, out of respect. And so that’s how much we should respect our homes. Our internal homes, right? You talk
Kristen Carder 52:35
about the your house, being the things that like within your home are like keeping a regular bedtime and wake up time sticking to a budget not having screens on not working past seven not answering work, emails on the weekends doing laundry every Friday. These are the things that you’re deciding on your own, and you’re taking care of your home.
Dr. Tamara Rosier 52:57
Yeah, a lot of times sometimes with certain clients, they don’t have any owner’s manual for their home. Yes, exactly. Got to work on what makes my home run. Yeah. And so for me, I’m an eight hour gal. If I don’t get eight hours of sleep, I don’t function well. And so I am always acting in ways to protect that. Because that’s what’s going to make my home run well, yeah, I can’t, by the way, energy wise, sometimes our homes have leaks. Like, let’s not leak the energy. Like let’s work with our emotional status so that it’s not kind of oozing out into our yard. Yeah, right. loves that. So good. So it’s taking responsibility for your home, in your home sits on a on a yard. And there’s a fence around that yard, or should be. Yeah, hopefully. But sociologists think that we can really only be close to 10 to 15 people at a time. And so, really, we can only have 10 to 15 people in our yard at a time. And yard people are these people who we decide to share life with. My husband’s in my yard, right. Now, sometimes, we’ll have these deep talks where I’m like, Hey, come into my house, I want to have to stop, like help me understand this. But he doesn’t live there. Now with my clients, I help them find the right people for their yard. Because sometimes my clients have parents who are like, Oh my gosh, this landscaping is horrible. You should dig up this bush and wait, I’m gonna do it for you. Yeah. And so we need people in the yard who appreciate that the yard is sacred space. You’re in my space because I trust you to be safe and healthy. And if you’re not, you’re going to be on the other side of the fence. And this is a delicate thing. But we can put people on the other side of the fence and they can still believe they’re in our yard. But we just don’t allow them access. Yep. To the yard. Yeah, right. We don’t have to go. You’re kicked out. We can just quietly go, Yeah, you’re on the other side of the fence. I can love you from over the fence. I can love people from over the fence. I’m sure. Anyone. Yeah, but I don’t let everyone in. And so I have these beautiful yard people. What’s your life with? And you know, they might sit in my yard with me and go. Tamra, have you noticed all the weeds? In this? Bed? Like, are you okay with that? Is that what you want? Notice they’re giving me feedback. And it’s my option to take it. Yeah. If I’m like, what those are weeds about? There were flowers. Yeah. Isn’t that we have a dialogue, and they’re improving my yard. But they don’t even talk about my house unless I invite them to invite them in.
Kristen Carder 55:59
Yes, I love this analogy so much because it expands on my own thinking of boundaries. And it delineates between what’s internal, what’s external. And then the fence analogy of like loving someone across the fence. And sometimes maybe there’s like an invisible fence that someone doesn’t see, like, they don’t know that they’re on the other side of the fence. And that’s okay. I know that boundaries are so difficult for people with ADHD, many of us grew up without any boundaries. We feel like we’re not entitled to set boundaries with ourselves or with other people. And so this, I think, is part of the deeper learning the deeper uncovering that we were discussing earlier, where it’s like, this isn’t step number one, right? Like, step number one is like, get a diagnostic
Dr. Tamara Rosier 56:46
get groceries, right? Like, be yourself.
Kristen Carder 56:49
Exactly, exactly. And like keep a job and like those kinds of things. But like, once we are developing the executive function capability to be able to function in these different areas, then we get to go deeper with like, what do I want my boundaries to look like? What do I want my circles of influence to look like? Who do I want in my yard? who maybe is an energy drain for me. And that’s another thing that you’re talking about, is like managing your capacity. And I just, we don’t have time to talk about it today. But I want to just say I love the way you talk about just noticing what’s draining you and making sure you’re refueling because that is something that we and that goes with boundaries, too, right? Like protecting our inner world, making sure our housework is tidy, and then making sure that people in our yard aren’t tearing it up and creating more work for
Dr. Tamara Rosier 57:41
us. Oh, yeah. Well, by the way, I love that you mentioned I didn’t grow up with any boundaries. And it wasn’t until my 40s I realized I could have boundaries. So not only did I open up a gate, and what well, everyone can come in because everybody has a right to be in my yard. Right. It was stampeded. I had the doors a windows open. And so it was very unhealthy. And let me tell you, though, when you grew up without boundaries, and you start to show boundaries, people are going to go, well, good for you, girl. No, they are not least because people, people like it when you don’t have good boundaries. That’s part of the fallout from getting healthy. And I’m sorry to for your listeners who have gone through that sounds like you’ve gone through that. It it’s unfortunate. There’s a cost to being healthy in an unhealthy family. And so I just wanted to speak to that for a second.
Kristen Carder 58:44
I’m so glad that you did. Because I think that when we are receiving our like therapy, quote unquote, from Instagram, it can look really cute and really pretty and really easy. But when you are actually doing the work of becoming healthy in your real life, there is fallout. I saw this Instagram reel and the guy was talking about how expensive peace is. And if you meet someone who’s peaceful, you need to know that that came at a cost.
Dr. Tamara Rosier 59:17
Exactly. And wow. Yeah. Wow. That’s really, unfortunately. And I can tell you’ve done your work too. And I’ve done my work. We’ve had to do some repair. Yeah. In our houses. Yeah. And repairing our houses isn’t the work of going. These people were bad to me. Repairing the houses, I let them in? Yeah, we kind of left the place a mess. Yeah. And so, you know, it’s like a hotel room that was, you know, ramshackle after a band left, right. And so we have to kind of go through and do that repair. And what I see I Though in our society is we like to blame people to go, Well, those are the bad people who wrecked my house. And I’m saying yes. And we’re not going to change them. Yeah, but we can work on our house.
Kristen Carder 1:00:14
It’s our responsibility to repair the house. Yeah. Even though we didn’t make the mess,
Dr. Tamara Rosier 1:00:19
even though we didn’t make it. And I’m not blaming the victim. I. Yeah. And I want to be very honest, there are, you know, I made a joke that I’m super old. But I’m 55. And there are still cracks in the plaster. Yeah, that keeps showing up. Because it during my foundational years, things are really hard. Yeah. And I’ve, I’ve learned to kind of be okay with that. And to learn from it, and it doesn’t define my house. But I know where those cracks are. You know, I’ve cleaned out as many clauses as I can. You know, those that scary seller, God in the attic, I’ve gone in those places, but my house is still affected. However, that doesn’t make me unhealthy. It makes me alerter from everything I went through. And I just I want your listeners to kind of just understand, like, bad things happen to us. And those of us with ADHD, our brains are so susceptible. eylea RSD. We didn’t talk about that. But we’re so sensitive, that our house can get ramshackle days late.
Kristen Carder 1:01:32
Yeah. And then having the tools and this is why I’m so passionate about the work. And I know that you are doing so much work to help people, having someone come alongside you and help with the repair or cheer you on from the yard. You’re doing great. Actually, keep going. I did it. And I encourage you to do it. And and I even just the connection of looking you in the face Tamra and knowing you’ve been through some stuff.
Dr. Tamara Rosier 1:02:03
deep waters, yeah, you can
Kristen Carder 1:02:05
tell. And there’s connection in that. And so to have people surrounding you saying like, Yes, this is not an easy process, but it’s possible. So speaking of tell us about how people can find you, how can people connect with you and the work that you’re doing?
Dr. Tamara Rosier 1:02:22
So before we do that, I’m sorry, I just wanted to go back. I’m so glad you kind of coach your son on his house where you didn’t go into his house. But you’re like, Hey, I see you’re struggling with geometry there. And I hope you find the tool of resilience, because that’s the tool that’s going to help your son. Yeah. And so you were kind of in his yard going. I see the house struggle hunting. Yeah. And I can’t do it for you. But I think you can find a tool for this. And that is really strong parenting. I really try with my children to like if I see house development together, do I have all girls so had a girl? I see you’re doing some housework. I don’t say that nerdy. I tried to cool, right. But I point out what I see them doing. And I talked about my own health, emotional health, like, hey, you know what past Tambora would have done this? Yep. Now Tamra and I talked about my own house works so that I can model for them. So that’s just kind of why you did such a great job parenting in that moment, you are parenting from the yard. So
Kristen Carder 1:03:32
thank you. Yeah, that means parents want
Dr. Tamara Rosier 1:03:35
to rush in the house and fix it. Yeah, that’s not a great approach. So. Okay, so where can you find me? Tamra rosier.com. And that’s the author’s website.
Kristen Carder 1:03:48
But I’m definitely going to link that in the show notes. And I want to say thank you for showing up with your full energy. Your full HD self today. I loved it. I loved every second of chatting with you. I really hope that everyone goes and buys your book, your brains not broken strategies for navigating your emotions and life with ADHD. Highly, highly recommend love it so much. Can’t wait for you to come back.
Dr. Tamara Rosier 1:04:14
Oh, anytime you are my new best friend. I love you. So you’re awesome.
Kristen Carder 1:04:21
Oh, the dopamine, ecstasy. Thank you so much. If you’re being treated for your ADHD, but you still don’t feel like you’re reaching your potential you’ve got to join focused. It’s my monthly coaching membership where I teach you how to tame your wild thoughts and create the life that you’ve always wanted. No matter what season of life you’re in, or where you are in the world focused is for you. All materials and call recordings are stored in the site for you to access at your convenience. Go to I have adhd.com/focused for all the info Oh