This episode is sponsored by CURE Hydration. You know that moment for me, it’s around like 2 or 3pm when my ADHD brain just decides we’re done for the day. We’re done here. The afternoon slump hits, the lights go off upstairs and suddenly answering an email or doing basically anything feels like climbing a mountain. That’s when I reach for Cure Energy. It’s a clean plant based energy drink mix made with 100 milligrams of natural caffeine and electrolytes. So I get the focus and hydration boost I need without jitters, without a crash and without that like I drink battery acid vi that some of the energy drinks have. The peach tea and acai berry flavors are my current go tos. Crisp, refreshing and they don’t taste fake, y’. All. They don’t taste fake. I’ll drink one before recording a session or when I need to get help through like that afternoon drag. And honestly, I. I drink it anytime. My brain just needs to cooperate. What’s wild is that Cure Energy is only 25 calories and has zero added sugar. It actually helps me stay hydrated while giving me energy. Okay, I love coffee, but coffee could never. Staying hydrated isn’t just about water. You also need electrolytes. And that’s why I love CUR Cure. It’s clean, it tastes great and it actually works. And remember, Cure is FSA HSA approved, which is amazing. You can use that money to pay for cure and for I have ADHD listeners, you can get 20% off your first order@curehydration.com I have ADHD with the code I have ADHD. And if you do get a post purchase survey, make sure to tell them that you heard about CURE right here on the podcast. It really helps to support the show. Don’t just drink more, upgrade it right with cure. Welcome to the I have ADHD podcast where it’s all about education, encouragement and coaching for adults with adhd. I’m your host Kristen Carter and I have adhd. Let’s chat about the frustrations, humor and challenges of adulting relationships working and achieving with this neurodevelopmental disorder disorder. I’ll help you understand your unique brain, unlock your potential and move from point A to point B. Hey, what’s up? This is Kristen Carter and you’re listening to the I have ADHD podcast, episode number 155. I am medicated, I am caffeinated and I’m ready to roll. How are you? How are you? I am so, so glad that you decided to press play on this episode today and join me for this juicy interview. I’m sure it’s pretty obvious from the title of this episode, but just in case it wasn’t super clear, I want you to know that we’re going to be talking about some sensitive subjects that might not be appropriate for young listeners. And also perhaps you personally want to know that we’ll be speaking about pornography. And if that’s a tough topic for you, please please make sure to take care of yourself as you see fit. But before we get rolling, I want you to raise your hand if you have shame and drama around money. I have this like mental picture of thousands of hands going up all over the world. And listen, I know that many or probably most ADHDers have made some really crazy money choices that you now beat yourself up for, and I promise you that the shame and judgment that you feel about this is for sure holding you back from making good decisions about your money now. So I decided to host a webinar on this very topic for you. Wednesday. Yes, that’s right, Wednesday, April 27th at 12:00pm Eastern. I will be teaching about releasing money, shame, judgment and drama so that you can trust yourself to make good financial decisions moving forward. Go to ihaveadhd.com webinar to sign up. It’s going to be super fun and there will be a very special and specific bonus offer given to those of you who join me live for the webinar. So make sure you go sign up. I have ADHD.com webinar all right, let’s get rolling here. My guest today is going to talk about how to stop looking at porn. Now many ADHDers struggle with addiction and problematic pornography use can fall into that category. For some of you, it disrupts your lives, your ability to have meaningful relationships and it brings up so much shame and self judgment and that can be extremely debilitating and hold you back from accomplishing what you want to so if you struggle with problematic pornography use or you suspect that someone you love does, this episode is 100% for you. And I do want to say that I’ve gotten so so many messages from people who have asked me to speak on this topic because there just doesn’t seem to be many ADHD friendly resources for those of you that are struggling in this area. If it’s not you specifically, it’s very likely that someone you love struggles in this area. And so this podcast, I want you to know, is a shame free zone. Danny and I are going to speak freely And I really hope that you will listen with open ears and an open heart. My guest today is Danny Pullman. He’s a certified coach, husband, and podcast host who helps people leave porn in their tracks sustainably and enjoyably and make their life what they want it to be. Danny, thank you for being here with me today. Welcome. Hey, thank you so much. Thanks for that intro. It’s really good to be here. So glad that you’re here. I am so fascinated that to learn that you are calling from France. You decided to move to France just because you wanted to. It’s true. I love that. My wife and I are both life coaches, so we work from wherever we want. And we decided to come to southern France. We said we’d take it a year at a time and kind of decide after a year. It’s been three and a half years now, so. Wow. Still doing a year at a time. That’s part of the fun of it. That sounds very dopamine inducing. I love it. That’s amazing. Lots of dopamine in southern France. Lots of dopamine in southern France. So tell us a little bit about yourself and why you have a passion for helping people. And I know you work specifically right now with men, but people in general, any listener that is struggling with problematic porn users, what kind of drew you to that, to helping people with that? Oh, yeah. I mean, first of all, I will totally work with women. I just, in my marketing kind of speak to men right now. But, yeah, some women have told me that there can be almost this extra layer of shame for women and porn because women aren’t supposed to have a struggle with porn. Like, for men, it’s more understandable. And, you know, that’s the way the story goes. So, anyway, I do. But I do want you women out there to know, like, this is shame free zone for men and women, and I would love to meet you and help you if this speaks to you too. So, yeah, how did I. How did I get on this journey? I mean, I used to be a dentist, and I had struggled sleeping for a while. My hands started shaking. I kind of just felt like I was almost unraveling for a time, and I didn’t know what the heck was going on. I was always really good at hustling and getting in the game and working hard, and I wasn’t really taking breaks as a dentist either, but my hands got shaky to the point where I just decided to stop working until I could figure that out, because that’s not a good mix with sharp high Speed instruments in people’s mouths. Right. So I thought that was the responsible thing to do and. But I was terrified and thought my, you know, all that training and money, I just, I didn’t know what was going on. So it turns out it was all driven by mental health and the state that I was in. And I didn’t even know that mental health could affect me in that sort of way at that time. I wasn’t that aware. This was, I don’t know how many years ago, like seven or something. Anyway, so I started learning a lot about mental health, um, because I needed to, my body let me know. And for me it turned out to be some PTSD that started to arise and I had a lot of anxiety and depression and was diagnosed by psychiatrists with those things and medicated. And I’m all for medication where it’s helpful. It can be such a useful tool, right? Absolutely. At the time I thought something was wrong with me for needing medication, but the more that I stopped telling myself that, the better things got and I was actually able to just use the medication and find the growth and healing where I wanted to. So. So Shame Free strikes again. It’s much more helpful. Good. I’m here for it. To take medication, Shame free. And anyway, so I did the stay at home dad thing for a while, which was definitely a wonderful and challenging experience that I had to kind of grow into. In the meantime, I was going to therapy appointments, sometimes two different kinds a week, and just trying to figure out what was going on. My wife started working and something that came up through all of this is I let my wife know that porn was something I was looking at and kind of hiding and hadn’t told her about. And she’d even asked me at it in the past and I had lied to her because I didn’t want her to know I didn’t know how to handle that yet. And so I approached her finally and told her, hey, there’s this thing that I’m doing every few weeks or a few months. It’s just, I don’t really want it in my life, but I do it and it’s more than I want it to be there and feels a little bit not in my control sometimes. And that just always really bothered me because, you know, I’m a successful guy in a lot of ways and I always thought I can, I can succeed if I just keep hustling. And that didn’t work with changing that habit. It just actually turns out made it harder. So anyway, that was kind of part of what? Why some of the mental health stuff started coming up, because I think that porn was one of the big distractors I used to avoid looking at that stuff. And then when I started doing things without that as much, some of that stuff came up. And I don’t want to scare everybody. Like, for most people, you don’t find a bunch of PTSD and shaky hands when you stop looking at porn. That’s. That’s not that way for the majority. Most people. Okay. But for me, it was just one of the. One of the many things I was using to kind of avoid looking at these things that at the time, I thought it was all just disruptive and getting in the way. And now I look back and it’s like, wow, I am so grateful that my body spoke up and let me know there’s some stuff to look at and heal from there, because so much healings come from it. And coaching is really the thing that helped me take all the stuff I learned from therapy to the next level. And even with all the therapy, I was still kind of stuck on the porn stuff. It didn’t really change much. And coaching, this coaching method that. That you and I have been certified and trained in is what really, really empowered me to make some awesome changes there. And so that’s what I do to help other guys. Yes, they come to me for porn to make their life better is how they say it usually, but it ends up being the reverse a lot of times. It’s like, how do we make your life your fully engaged, human, emotional experience of life, day to day? How do we make that so much better that porn just becomes less relevant and even irrelevant? Right. I love that so much. You know, you and I were geeking out before I press record just about life coaching, and I mean, this really isn’t relevant, but we were at a conference together just recently, and it’s just so fun to meet someone in real life over the zooms or whatever we’re using here, who is also just so obsessed with seeing people make very real and sustainable changes. I think that this work that you and I get to do is just the most fun ever. And for me, as someone with ADHD who really likes, you know, feedback and the dopamine hit of seeing people really make changes, that for me, has just been so much fun. And I can imagine that is part of your experience as well. Oh, yeah. I mean, just personally, it’s like, whatever works. I’ve just become a fan of, like, what actually just works. Right. And I tried so many freaking Things my psychiatrist told me, like, you’ve tried more things than anyone I’ve ever met with, ever. Right. That’s amazing. And this coaching is. It really is. It’s just so awesome to understand your mind in this way. And that’s the general feedback that I get from guys I work with, too, because a lot of them have tried so many things. They still feel stuck and powerless and. And they go through this process, and pretty much everybody, with very. Maybe one or two exceptions in the last few years is like, this is the most helpful thing that I’ve done of all the things. And they’re getting new momentum, creating new results that eluded them or evaded them before, whatever that word is. And it’s so fun. I love it. I absolutely. Like, I just. You’re my last appointment of the day because I’m on France time and just finished with all my clients today, and I just, like, feel energized after most days because I just love meeting with these guys. When we talk about, like, shame free zone, I mean, that’s so important for learning and changing. And I like, that’s the atmosphere, the environment that I am committed and determined to create and show my clients how to create for themselves. Because I just love these guys. Like, I just. They’re such good guys who are just stuck on this thing that has a bad rap and a lot of shame story around it. And I like to see it more as just, hey, it’s a skill you haven’t learned yet. That’s it. Right? So talk to me a little bit about powerlessness. I think that you made such an interesting point when you were just talking a little bit about yourself, saying, like, listen, I was a pretty successful guy that felt in control in a lot of areas of my life. And this was one of the areas where I just felt like I. It was not in my control. Can you just tell me a little bit about that? Yes. I mean, it’s terrible to feel powerless, right? Just. It sucks. It doesn’t feel safe to feel powerless. And I just had no idea why. One of the things that has been so helpful to learn is just this idea. I know you teach your people this too, right? That the thoughts that we have about the facts around us and the circumstances or the situations in our life. Right. They very much affect how things go for us. That’s what this is all about. Right. And. And a lot of those thoughts we didn’t learn on purpose. Our brain just kind of absorbed as we grew up. And something that is important to remember is There are some rich white guys somewhere that run this billion dollar porn industry. Yeah. And they very much profit off of perpetuating ideas like, hey, you can’t do life without porn. It’s just normal to do life without porn. And actually you’re not even strong enough or powerful enough to go certain amounts of time without porn and masturbation and sex. And so if you start paying attention, there are so many narratives around urges and impulses and sexual impulses that are so disempowering. And really it’s a lot of it’s just a made up story that’s not even true. But it feels so true because we’ve been immersed in it like a fish in water, you know, we don’t even know you’re in it. And we’ve practiced buying into it so much that those thoughts then make you feel really powerless. And turns out feeling powerless doesn’t really help you to change habits. Wow. Shocking. So let’s chat a little bit about what would maybe cause someone to kind of start the habit. And I have some theories. So my people are ADHDers, which means that we get bored really easily. We have a deficit of dopamine and so or fewer dopamine receptors, like if we’re going to be super facty. But like, you guys know what I mean, right? So we have less dopamine, we get bored much easier than the average person. We have a really hard time self regulating. And so when our bodies are triggered or activated, we have a really hard time self soothing and calming ourselves down. And we’re really impulsive and so it’s very. Dr. Hallowell says that we have a Ferrari engine with bicycle brakes. And so like all of these things going together, the culmination of all of this. I think it makes sense that somebody with ADHD might be more prone to start up a habit with porn. And then like you were talking about feeling powerless to stop. Yeah, yeah. And I could totally see that. I work with a lot of people who are ADHD and they definitely find me. And I think the thing that comes up for me with what you just said, it’s kind of a balancing act. Right. Like I remember for me when I got diagnosed with anxiety and depression, on the one hand, it’s like so validating and helpful and you just kind of feel seen and then there’s suddenly all these resources when you start looking up resources for people with this thing. And I think the thing too that I just like notice with my people is if we like yes, there are maybe some Existing physiological conditions in our body that start us out here. And you can tell me your thoughts on this too. And maybe it makes you a little bit more prone to even get started with something like porn. I think the thing that I’ve found so helpful for me along the way in my journey, kind of transforming my experience of life and for my clients too is yeah, like, let’s balance and acknowledge what things to be aware of that can make us more prone to certain things. But also, also let’s just be willing to question, does it make us as powerless as we think? Like, yeah, maybe we have a Ferrari engine with, with bicycle brakes, how you say it. Right. But also maybe we, maybe that’s just sort of a starting point and maybe we can actually, maybe we have more brakes than we realize that are just from a different. That aren’t on the bicycle that we just kind of are bringing in from other sides and adding to our brakes. And you know what I mean? Like, that’s just kind of something to keep in mind. I love that. I find helpful to come back to. So what kind of external breaks? Like, as you kind of think that through, if the breaks internally haven’t been developed, which I do believe they can be developed for, sure, these are skills that we can build and learn depending on our ability to access help and care and all that. But you know, if somebody is looking for some externalization of breaks, like what. What do you suggest for your people? I mean, the number one that thing that comes up for me is thought work. Right. Like what you and I do with people. Because the way that I see this in terms of breaks and power is like when guys come to me, they think porn is the powerful thing and that they are the non powerful thing. Right. Like a victim villain situation. Yeah, yeah. And what ends up happening as we go through the process is we start breaking down some of these thoughts we have about how powerful porn is. And we realize, wait a second, porn just sits there. Yeah. Until we go pick it up. It doesn’t come and get us. It isn’t just like if it was automatically that enticing just objectively, empirically, then number one, everyone in the world would be doing it just as much as you. And I kind of like to think about it this way. Like if you’re looking at porn and you’re like in a chair on a stage with stadium seating around you and all your friends and family are there. Right. First of all, let’s say that we just put a drug in your veins and we kind of measure the levels of how that drug affects your body. Right. It would be very mathematical and empirical. But if you were to measure what’s going on in your body when you’re looking at porn alone versus in this stadium seating, on the stage situation, the experience is very different. And why is that? Right. Because porn isn’t just innately that powerful. It’s something that we’ve just learned to see as powerful. And so the way I like to see this power dynamic and the breaks dynamic is I like to believe that the brakes and the power that we need to achieve our goals are already there. Like, they already exist within us. We just haven’t yet opened our eyes to see them and access them. Right. And I don’t know if there’s a way to approach that without like invalidating people who find it helpful to identify with being adhd. But what’s your take on that? Yeah, that’s really interesting. Yeah, I think that there is a very fine line. And what I encourage my clients to do is identify with adhd, accept your ADHD on one hand, and on the other hand, know that you are still an autonomous adult with a brain that gets to decide what you do and how you do it. And so there’s like a both and the two truths being true at the same time. And some people have a hard time with that because some people think that identifying with ADHD makes them a victim to it, and then they are. Then they become powerless. But for me, I actually think it’s very empowering to acknowledge I have adhd. I have these limitations. Okay, now what? Like, when I acknowledge it, when I see, like, oh, it might actually be harder for me than for the average Joe. Okay, now what? Now what do I need to do? Right. Like, completing my master’s degree might be more difficult for me than for a neurotypical. Okay, what support do I need to put in place? What scaffolding do I need to put in place? Who do I need to employ or who do I need to ask for help? How do I need to be vulnerable in this situation to make sure that I have the resources that I need so that I can succeed? So it has nothing to do with intelligence or with your potential. It’s just the ability to kind of follow through and take all of the steps necessary to execute on your goals, which everyone struggles with. That’s a human struggle. So it’s just very wishy washy. You see how I kind of answered and like, also didn’t answer at all. Like, that’s how it is. Yeah. For me? Yeah. Well, I kind of think of, like, me and my older brother, right? Like, I’m six one, a little bit smaller, natural frame. He’s six four, like Captain America body. Right. And so he, like, started out a lot more size and muscle than me, just from how we came. That being said, we can both lift weights and get super buff. And what if we can both get strong enough from lifting those weights to achieve the goals that we have? Right. And so I kind of just. That’s just an important question for someone with adhd. If you are concerned about a habit with porn and want to change that habit. Like, if you are of the belief that because of your ADHD you cannot change your habits with porn, then you won’t change your habits with porn. Right. And. Whereas if you’re open to playing with the idea that, yes, I have this thing to be aware of. Right, that’s so helpful to be aware of, but also it’s possible to find the brakes and to achieve my goals with this habit change, like, with this, I can do both. I can acknowledge it. And, like, isn’t that where some of the real power can come with this kind of work? 100%. And with. With every goal we want to achieve or with every problematic habit that we want to drop, it’s. It’s the same. You know, we could be talking about overeating. It’s the. I feel like it would be the same conversation. You know, impulsivity and emotional dysregulation and boredom would fall into the category of, like, I’m eating more than I want to, and I feel like I’m out of control in that area. It’s this exact same conversation, which I just think is so awesome, because with thoughtwork and the work that you and I do, so much of the conversation around, like, the very specific details of, you know, helping our specific clients can be applied broadly. It’s just so fun. It is so fun. It does. And it applies to everything. Right? The way you do one thing in your mind is the way you do everything. So if you work on it in one area, it can’t not affect the other areas, which is so fun. This is so interesting that you said that, because I’m so glad that you qualified. Is that what it was that you did? But you said the way you do one thing in your mind is the way that you do everything. I love that you said that because I’ve heard people say the one thing. The way that you do one thing is the way that you do everything. And I Think that’s bs. Bs. Total bs. Yeah. And we could totally get into why, because I really do want to take a rabbit trail right now. But I am going to stay focused. But I totally agree that the way you do one thing in your mind is the way that you do everything. That is fascinating. Love it. Yeah. And now a word from our sponsor. Hey, Kristin here. I’m the host of this podcast, an ADHD expert and a certified life coach who’s helped hundreds of adults with ADHD understand their unique brains and make real changes in their lives. If you’re not sure what a life coach is, let me tell you. A life coach is someone who helps you achieve your goals. Like a personal trainer for your life, a life coach is a guide who holds your hand along the way as you take baby steps, step after baby step to accomplish the things that you want to accomplish. A good life coach is a trained expert who knows how to look at situations, all situations, with non judgmental neutrality and offer you solutions that you’ve probably never even considered before. If you’re being treated for your ADHD and maybe even you’ve done some work in therapy and you want to add to your scaffolding of support, you’ve got to join my group coaching program, Focused. Focused is where functional adults with ADHD surround each other with encouragement and support. And I lead the way with innovative and creative solutions to help you fully accept yourself, understand your ADHD and create the life that you’ve always wanted to create, even with ADHD. Go to. I have adhd.com focused to join and I hope to see you in our community today. So, yeah, for starters, when you ask about this scaffolding, I love the idea of creating a scaffolding to build around. Right. I love that language. It’s great. It starts with believing it’s possible. Always does. Right. I think that’s always the starting point. But then in terms of other ways to approach this stuff and the impulses that come up. Right. I mean, number one, I have some great free resources that you can and I’m sure that you do too, on your website. So we’ll mention my website and you can check out any free resources if you want to see what I’ve got with impulses, with porn in particular. Yeah. Number two is like, do whatever works. I think another place to begin that was so helpful for me is just they call it psychoeducation. Right. In sort of therapy, clinical terms, use that to your advantage, like get educated about how the brain actually works. And when you start learning about how it works. That takes so much shame out of it. Because then you realize, oh, I’ve got. My machinery is good and it’s working by design, and maybe I’m not diseased and broken. I have the good machinery. It’s just a matter of, let’s look at the instruction manual and just use it, how it actually works. Right? So learning how the brain works can be a huge help with that. I think one of the fun places to start with this sort of topic is with dopamine, right? Like. Like as humans, the way our brains evolved, you know, dopamine, it’s like it tells our brain we’re doing something that helps us survive because our brains are all about survival. And so when you have these impulses that feel like you’re gonna die if you don’t act on them, that’s why. Right. It actually. You’re not being overly dramatic. I mean, on the one hand we are, but if it feels that way, then it makes sense. Right? And rather than shame ourselves for that, we can say, oh, yeah, of course, it feels like I’m going to die if I don’t do this thing. That’s how my brain’s designed. And then you get to respond instead of react, like, so what am I going to do with this? Am I actually going to die? And you get to have that conversation. Right. The more that we can create space between the stimulus and the acting, the more just any millisecond we can gain there of awareness is gold, Right. In terms of learning to not act on those impulses so readily. And then the other thing that I like to consider, I actually found it so fascinating. I didn’t know that about adhd, that they have less. People with ADHD have less dopamine receptors and serotonin as well. So we’re hit with both, which really make life complicated. And so many of us go looking for dopamine in different places, and that’s just a survival tactic, right? And so I think it would totally make sense that some people would look for dopamine in the area of porn. And then maybe, perhaps it becomes a problematic thing for them where they feel like they’re out of control and we are much more likely to become addicted to substances and alcohol. And it’s a whole thing. Yeah, absolutely. And it, you know, the brain, naturally, the human brain, it works really well with this dopamine reward system. When it’s like sex with one woman one time, right? Or like in the old days, you like, you know, you gotta, like, court and build that trust and oftentimes you partner up taking care of these kids. Right. So you’re not, you can’t just like on demand sex with you now, Right? Like that’s not how. So our brains are right? Yeah. Oh, so I’m just imagining the grunting in the club, right? No, but, but nowadays we have this man made version of sex that’s like concentrated sex. High speed Internet. Interestingly, as soon as the high speed Internet became a thing with videos in the early 2000s, a lot of people who never had issues with porn suddenly did because it totally changed things. And we’ve realized now how it affects our brains. And yeah, it’s basically a buttload of dopamine that’s an unnatural amount and super easy access. And so our brain with how it’s naturally set up, it’s like, heck yeah, sign me up for that. Right. And can I pop in here? So I was doing some research and I read that pornography impacts the brain by triggering ever increasing amounts of dopamine. And then over time the brain builds up a tolerance to the excess dopamine and requires either more access or more extreme content, or sometimes both to achieve the same level of perceived pleasure. Yes, yeah, exactly. And that’s where I was going to go next with it is when you overload the brain with unnatural amounts of dopamine. Just like ADHD people have less receptors for dopamine, your brain can actually adjust on the fly as it goes, especially with regular exposure to something like this. So then you have even less dopamine receptors when you’re regularly using something like this. So the way I like to kind of break this down is like you can break things down into high value low dopamine activities versus low value high dopamine activities. And it’s not a matter of one of these is good or bad. It’s more just the more that we’re using the low value high dopamine activities, the more likely we’re going to be reducing these receptors. So if we’re not bringing in enough of the high value low dopamine activity enough of the time, then it can become an issue. And that’s why, yeah, guys end up looking at more and more extreme versions as they go a lot of times, especially if it’s regular. Right. But then the thing about this, here’s the fun thing about this. Well, maybe it’s not fun. I think it’s a fun way to look at it. If you think boredom is fun, then you’re gonna like this. And everyone like slowly turns in the volume. No, stay with us, people. Stay with us. If you want to make boredom more tolerable. Listen. There we go. Okay? That’s it. All right. When you reduce your dopamine receptors with regular use of an activity like porn, it doesn’t just affect porn and make you need more porn to get that dopamine, it affects all the other areas of your life where you would get dopamine, right? So going on a walk with your dog might feel kind of blah when you’re looking at porn every day. Whereas if you go without porn for a while, going on a walk with your dog can be the best part of your day. Be so awesome, right? It can make the rest of your life seem kind of boring when you overload your time with the high dopamine low value activities. Porn is one of those, right? Low value because it actually doesn’t have any real survival type benefits. But of course can be helpful with coping in the moment, right? So don’t judge yourself too much for that. But then the other side of this is dopamine rewards learning pathways in our brain, right? So if you bring a reward of dopamine while learning a new something skill or way of thinking, it really accelerates that process. And I learned from Dr. Joe Dispenza that you can habitually experience emotions, right? So if you habitually have boredom coming up for you, and then you turn to an activity that has a bunch of dopamine that comes from it, then you might accidentally be rewarding your brain for creating more and more boredom. Okay, so porn can actually create more boredom in your life on these two different fronts. Why is your jaw down? I am aghast. That is fascinating. Okay, say it again. Wait, no, let me say it and you tell me. Okay, go for it. So if boredom is an emotion that comes up for you often, and because of the boredom kind of as a coping mechanism, you turn to porn, which is a low value high dopamine. What did you call it? Activity. Activity. It’s a great word for it. Okay, great. That’s almost like rewarding your brain for feeling boredom. And so then it just becomes even more habitual and boredom gets created in your body more often. Did I get that right? Yeah, that’s kind of the way I see it from all that I’ve learned. And it resonates with me. So take it if it resonates with you. But I think we can actually reward our brain for creating certain emotions which will make it more likely to create more of those emotions in the future. So if we’re rewarding boredom with a bunch of dopamine from porn. Just know that you might be inviting more boredom. So when people say porn is exciting, it brings that thought into question, right? Is it exciting or does it, in two different ways, make the rest of our life more boring? That is fascinating. Wow. Yeah. And now a word from our sponsor. Hey, Kristen here. I’m the host of this podcast, an ADHD expert and a certified life coach who’s helped hundreds of adults with ADHD understand their unique brains and make real changes in their lives. If you’re not sure what a life coach is, let me tell you. A life coach is someone who helps you achieve your goals. Like a personal trainer for your life, a life coach is a guide who holds your hand along the way as you take babies, step after baby step to accomplish the things that you want to accomplish. A good life coach is a trained expert who knows how to look at situations, all situations, with non judgmental neutrality, and offer you solutions that you’ve probably never even considered before. If you’re being treated for your ADHD and maybe even you’ve done some work in therapy and you want to add to your scaffolding of support, you’ve got to join my group coaching program, Focused. Focused is where functional adults with ADHD surround each other with encouragement and support. And I lead the way with innovative and creative solutions to help you fully accept yourself, understand your ADHD, and create the life that you’ve always wanted to create, even with ADHD. Go to I ihaveadhd.com focused to join and I hope to see you in our community today. You mentioned at the beginning of this conversation that thought work was the most impactful thing for you as you were making the transition from someone who felt powerless to someone who felt much more powerful in the area of pornography use. And I’m really curious if you could kind of explain for my listeners, what does thoughtwork even mean? Like, for you and especially around this topic and activity, like, what does that look like for somebody? Just like a listener takeaway. What does thoughtwork look like when it comes to stopping this habit? Okay. Yeah. The way that I like to think about this and it’s, you know, it’s similar to how you teach things. So we’ll just repeat it because repeating helps with learning, Right? I don’t talk about it much on the podcast, honestly, so go for it. Yeah. All right. Thoughts create our results, right? Yes. The way this works, people, is thoughts create our feelings, feelings drive our actions, actions create results. And if you Believe in laws of manifesting like I do. Thoughts create results even without feelings and actions a lot of times. So just keep that in mind for you overachievers. So it’s basically a think, feel, act, cycle. This is how Rachel Hart says it. I like that. And so when we just say, oh, it was the habit, maybe you did this thing you didn’t want to do, it happened again, you looked at porn again. After all the trying and effort to not do it again, you failed again. Right. Maybe you’re beating yourself up. So first, stop beating yourself up and let’s bring in more curiosity. Right. Curiosity is one of the best tools for thought work. And I think it’s kind of a feeling that. That we create by dropping the judgment and just learn how to feel genuinely curious. Like, okay, what happened? Beginner’s mind. Let’s look at this with fresh eyes. Why did this happen? What worked? What didn’t? What do I want to do differently next time? Right. And I encourage you to, in the thoughtwork side of things, to get curious. What is the think, feel, act cycle that was going on there? Right. Because the real problem here isn’t the porn. The real problem is the thinking. Yeah. So let’s keep identifying one by one, what’s the thinking? Become more and more conscious. And the more you do this and peel it back, the more and more power you gain to just not do that thing, not fall in that same hole again. Right. And get a pen and paper is a great way to do this. And just write down, what was I thinking, what was I feeling, what led to those actions? And then when we’re talking about impulses or urges, I usually call them urges. Where do urges go in this process? They go in that feeling part of the cycle. Right. So urges are actually feelings that we’ve created with a thought in our brain. And they don’t happen if you’re not thinking in that moment. A thought that creates that impulse or urge. And the more we can just get curious about this and put it into words, even get it out in front of our eyes on the paper, on the screen, written down, the more you get your conscious power involved and you just kind of go one at a time, as long as it takes till you’ve changed your thinking patterns and you don’t worry about hustling to new thinking as much as just becoming curious and more and more conscious of what is there. In my experience, you don’t have to. You can kind of decide what you want to think and feel instead, which can be helpful. But you don’t have to, like, focus so much on that as much as just become more conscious. Why is what’s happening happening? So that’s one basic way to start. And then did you want to add something to that or ask something, or do you want me to? Yeah, I wanted to just say that I think that for most people when they start this process, it is very likely that they won’t have any idea what thought, you know, kind of triggered it. So for ADHDers, we don’t have very quick access to our inner monologue. We don’t have, like, this conscious inner monologue, which is really annoying. And one of the difficulties that we have to overcome in the area of thought work, because when someone with ADHD is asked, so, like, what were you thinking before this happened? It’s very, very hard for them to access that. And so just starting with, like, downloading anything that they could be thinking, even just in the moment, and building that awareness. I started, you know, years ago just writing thought downloads, and they were just pages and pages and pages long because it was like, finally I was gaining awareness of what was in my brain. And so I just want to encourage anybody if. If the thought of, like, having to figure out what you’re thinking in the moment seems overwhelming, that is just one of the skills that can be developed in this process. So I love how you said, like, don’t worry about it going fast. Don’t worry about it hustling your way there. Just start to get curious and start to just try to gain awareness around. Like, if I had to guess, what was I feeling? If I had to guess what was causing that feeling, like, just building just a very small amount of awareness day after day is going to really, really increase your ability to know, you know, in a month or two months or three months what those thoughts and feelings were. Yeah, I love that. And what I would say is like, yeah, if it’s slower starting out with this stuff with adhd, I would just say let it be slow and work with that. And that’s okay, right? No shame in it going slower. And that’s kind of what I like to come back to ultimately with my clients is like, okay, if you know for sure that you’re getting right where you want to get with your goals of habit change here, like, if you know that’s happening, then how do you approach right now? Right. It makes it so much easier to, after having just left it porn again, to sit down with a pen and paper and be like, you know, I’m not In a hurry and maybe nothing’s even gone wrong. I’m just learning my next thing here. What happened, why, what thoughts, feelings, actions, Right. And can be another helpful kind of thing to bring into the mix. And then I guess this is the other thing. I think maybe I already touched on it. But thoughts are what create our urges. So out of all the thoughts, feelings and actions involved, make sure you don’t skip over trying to learn what those thoughts are that create the urges. Right? Find out the thoughts that create the other feelings too, and what feelings you’re trying to avoid and using porn to do that. But also, anytime you can find what thoughts are creating those urges, they’re golden. And identify them and practice getting intentional with where you want to spend your desire. Ooh, where you want to spend your desire. That’s good. You like that? I like that a lot. So an urge is like that very intense pull, right? That major desire. It’s not just like a sweet desire though, it’s like the pull that you’re just like, I’m going to die if I do not have this thing or do this thing. And what’s so wild is that some seemingly simple non harmful thoughts are what are causing those major urges that then lead to actions that give us results that we just really don’t love. Yep, exactly. And if you’re asking about how to use thoughtwork in this sort of approach, another way to do this is the urge itself. Let’s consider that just like a circumstance or part of the situation, something that’s just happened there, right? It’s there. And then as humans, we like to make our feelings and our urges mean all sorts of things, right? And we have a lot of stories that are optional about what we’re feeling. And so what happens with a lot of people with urges for porn is especially those with religious backgrounds who come to me, right? It’s like I’m bad for even having this urge, right? I shouldn’t have this urge. It shouldn’t be here. I need to get rid of this or something bad will happen. This is a sign that I’m out of control. This means something’s wrong with me, right? The list goes on and on. I’ve thought every single one of these, by the way, and they suck. It feels terrible. And then it just makes you that much more reactive to the urge because no one wants to sit around feeling like something’s wrong with them, right? So the alternative here is, first of all, let’s identify what are we making these urges mean when we have these Impulses come up and what’s our story about them? Are we telling ourselves that it’s overpowering and too much for us and just a matter of time before we give in and because of how it’s gone in the past, that’s how it’s going to be forever in our future? Or are we willing to entertain some new ideas? Like, okay, here’s an urge. Does it have to mean anything about me? Maybe it doesn’t mean anything about me other than I’m having a thought in my human brain right now that’s creating a human feeling called an urge. Maybe that’s it, right? And maybe it’s a sign that something’s gone right. Even that my brain is working just right. And just because I’ve reacted to these urges in the past has nothing to do with how I’m going to do it in my future in the long term. Right? Like, we can just shift these stories we tell and use it to our advantage, make it mean things that actually take you toward your goals and toward the habit changes that you’re looking for, you know? Beautiful. What do you think? You have any take on that? No, I think that’s perfect. I think that’s a perfect place to wrap up. I would love to just geek out with you on this all day long. I know. I have a feeling we could keep going for a while, but I think that’s a perfect place to close. So thank you. Thank you. Tell my listeners where they can find you, where they can grab your resources, what the name of your podcast is. Give us all the info. Yeah, so I would just go to my website, which is Danny Pullman. That’s dash A N, N Y. And make sure you spell it P O, E L, M A N. It’s not the usual spelling, the Dutch version. And podcast is just called how to Stop Looking at Porn. I thought I’d make it simple for people with the title so you can look it up and search my name if that helps you find it. It might be under Daniel Pullman there. Oh, fancy. You are feeling professional. Yes, I was when I wrote that in. So anyway, yeah, I would love for you to come check it out. I have some awesome stuff, and whoever it can help, I want it to help. And just to clarify again, even though your marketing is geared towards dudes, you are open to working with whomever might, you know, reach out and benefit from your. From your work. Absolutely, Absolutely. I love working with women, too. So perfect. Thank you. Appreciate you. Thank you so much for having me on. It’s been really fun to talk to you about this. A few years ago, I went looking for help. I wanted to find someone to teach me how to feel better about myself and to help me improve my organization, productivity, time management, emotional regulation. You know, all the things that we adults with ADHD struggle with. I couldn’t find anything, so I researched and I studied and I hired coaches and I figured it out. Then I created Focused for you. Focused is my monthly coaching membership where I teach educated professional adults how to accept their ADHD brain and hijack their ability to get stuff done. Hundreds of people from all over the world are already benefiting from this program, and I’m confident that you will too. Go to ihaveadhd.com focused for all the details.
