Kristen Carder 0:05
Welcome to the I have ADHD podcast, where it’s all about education, encouragement and coaching for adults with ADHD. I’m your host, Kristen Carter and I have ADHD. Let’s chat about the frustrations, humor and challenges of adulting relationships working and achieving with this neurodevelopmental disorder. I’ll help you understand your unique brain. Unlock your potential and move from point A to point B. What’s up, this is Kristen Carter and you’re listening to the I have ADHD podcast. I am medicated, I am caffeinated. I am regulated the most regulated that I’ve ever been on a podcast episode before. And I’m ready to roll. The reason my friends that I am so regulated today is because the love of my life, the man that I love is here and he is my emotional support. He is the safest person that I know. Greg Carter, welcome to the podcast. Thank you for being here.

Greg Carder 1:09
Thank you for having me.

Kristen Carder 1:11
You’re so welcome. And it is important for us to note that this episode is coming out on our 20th wedding anniversary. So my Oola Happy wedding anniversary. We’ve made it to 20 years. Yeah, that’s not a small thing.

Greg Carder 1:30
Nope. took us a while to figure out those numbers to

Kristen Carder 1:36
I don’t understand why because you are actually really good at math. But for a couple years, we were calling ourselves the wrong number as far as by

Greg Carder 1:45
a number. Yeah. So embarrassing. Someone corrected us.

Kristen Carder 1:50
We were married in August of 2004. And I wonder if we have listeners that were literally born right around that time, that’s a wild thought. Oh, boy. Oh, boy. The last time that you came on the podcast was May of 2020. And I’m wondering what you remember about that recording? Because I remember it as being absolutely hilarious. We were a couple months into lockdown. We had three pretty small children in a very small house what I consider to be a small house for five people. And we recorded sitting next to each other and we shared a microphone. What in the world and our kids were playing downstairs. They were super noisy, and I could not stop giggling the whole episode. Like what I was like a school girl sitting next to her crush. I could not stop laughing. Yeah,

Greg Carder 2:50
it was great.

Content. Yeah,

it was. Yeah, it was very virgin. very generic setup. I mean, it was the most I know RadioShack. And the malls, like malls, like don’t exist anymore, but it was the most put together RadioShack version of an episode that at least, you know, those were phrases that we would have used growing up. Yeah. When it came to the equipment that we had. But yeah, it was it was fun. I mean, everybody remembers 2020. And so like, of course, I remember that episode and time stopped for a little while. And you laughs You are giggling the whole time. I think it’s because you’re asking me questions, and inviting me to say things that I have never said out loud to you before. Yeah.

Kristen Carder 3:39
In retrospect, maybe we should have had that conversation in private before we have maybe 20,000 people. That’s funny. If you’ve listened to this podcast for any length of time, you’ve definitely heard me talk about the fact that I don’t have a morning routine. I have what’s called a please don’t die list christen it could you please not die. And on that list are things like eating, taking my medication, making sure I’m clothed, you know, the very, very basics. morning routines are so hard for adults with ADHD and I have just thrown in the towel and dropped all of the drama around it. But I want to tell you something fascinating. I have been able to be so consistent with the routine of drinking ag one every day I kid you not. I drink it every day. I wake up I come down the stairs and the first thing I do is get my little shaker out, fill it with water, add a scoop of ag one and I’m telling you that it makes me feel so ready to take on the day like I’m doing something so good for my body and my body is like oh actual nutrition. I appreciate you. Thank you so much. Speaking of that nutrition ag one is a foundational nutrition supplement that delivers daily nutrients and gut health support. Now this is so important because we’ve talked about this before diet and nutrition are very difficult for those of us with ADHD we are prone to lean toward the sweets, we want the chips, we want the dopamine. But if we can make sure that we’re doing something good for our bodies every day, it will make a difference. What’s so cool about ag one is that it’s backed by multiple research studies. That is not nothing. You can really trust what you’re putting in your body when you take ag one because unlike so many other products, their entire formula is backed by research, not just the ingredients, but the whole formula. over 14 years ag one has been focused on innovation with a trusted nutrient dense blend. That’s the perfect complement to any diet. Whether your diet is healthy, or you struggle with nutrition. Ag one is the perfect complement no matter what. Now, you know, I’m a Research girly, that is so much of what I do for this podcast. So I do care about the details. And with ag one I can trust their research and how they’re validating the product working in the body. If you’ve heard me talk about ag one before, you may have heard me say that I’ve actually noticed that I need less coffee in the morning, which is wild because coffee is literally the reason I get out of bed in the morning. What’s cool is that their research backs this, after 60 days of taking ag 190 1% of people in a research study, notice that they need less coffee as well. So I’m not the only one. Listen, if there’s one product I trust to support my whole body health, it’s ag one. And that’s why I partner with them and them alone for so long. It’s easy. If it wasn’t easy, I wouldn’t do it. I promise you that. And it’s satisfying to start your day with ag one knowing that at least you’ve got the foundation of a little bit of nutrition right there. So you can try ag one and get a free one year supply of vitamin d3 k two, and five free ag one travel packs, which are going to be amazing for summer travel. By the way, you can get all of that with your first purchase at drink, ag one.com/i have ADHD. That’s drink ag one.com/i have ADHD, go check it out. I’m curious how your perspective of ADHD may have evolved? Since we had that conversation in 2020. So you had already been doing so much evolving? Kind of not necessarily because you wanted to. But because I was on this journey and really asking you to participate with me as my husband, which I am so grateful to you that you were willing to do. And I’m just curious, if if your perspective has evolved since then, in the last four years?

Greg Carder 8:10
Yeah, since that first recording, I would say absolutely. The years leading up to 2020. There had there was, I would say existing in our marriage, not a lot of communication in the area of needs, and wants and understanding when it came to how we approached the world, how our brains processed the information that we were receiving, and the way that that overflowed. How you could even say, overflowed is a pretty gentle word, maybe spilled over on to all the other aspects of our relationship. And so in the last four years, I mean, you have for me personally, and maybe I’m going to touch on this, I think later in the episode, but you have done a lot of work in helping point my attention to the things that have been influential in my understanding and growth when it came to understanding you and understanding ADHD and understanding the brain and, and the impact on relationships. So that’s been pretty huge. Kind of another big thing too was hearing you over these last four or five years develop into. I mean, if I could just, if I could just brag on you for a little bit, an influential voice in that community of ADHD. You are always brainstorming and thinking of new ways to help people and to approach the conversation to say in a way that makes people understand the concept that would be really helpful for them both in their personal professional and relationship and the relationships that they have in their families. So I would say that just watching you did again to the volumes upon volumes of content that is out there, and figuring out ways to communicate that to a community that needs it has helped me as well. So that’s been like, less intentional and more observational on my part. I think that’s

Kristen Carder 10:16
really cool. I really appreciate you saying that. It’s a really nice compliment. But also, I think that maybe people listening who have a neurotypical spouse would say, Well, my partner has been watching me dig in, as well, you know, in various ways, maybe not to the same extent, but my partner has, has watched me, you know, read books, and listen to podcasts and go to therapy and get coached. And my partner is not really changing or interested in what I’m doing. So even though I appreciate you saying that there is something about you, where you’re willing to learn, and you are willing to evolve and grow. Could you like pinpoint what that is? Do you have a specific understanding of yourself? Like, what is it about you that allows you to be someone who is willing to observe me doing some work and being like, Oh, tell me more like, change your own perspective on it?

Greg Carder 11:18
Okay, so this is a hard question for me to answer because talking about myself, it’s one of like, put that on the list of five things that I hate the most. But when I look at the relationship with you, Kristen, and I think about what it means to navigate the relationship with you, there’s an intentionality behind choosing to accept, reject or deny, whatever you bring into the relationship and the developing or strengthening that muscle, that relationship muscle, metaphorically, that muscle inside of you, that is able to tolerate some discomfort, when it comes to what your spouse brings to a relationship in moments of successes and failure is probably the most one of the most important muscles there are to develop, or at least one of the most important relationship aspects that there are to bring peace to the relationship and allow that person to, to thrive. And so two things that worked for me, for me to be able to pinpoint in you, what was just you existing, versus making that into some form of conflict. So you existing can look like you giving your opinion, or reacting in a certain way, or overseeing something, or not being able to fully comprehend in some other area, you know, talk a lot about time procrastination and things like that, or in like a person could take those aspects of a relationship and create a conflict out of that, and create and believe a narrative in their mind that like, this person that I’m married to, is doing this to me on purpose. Or another perspective would be this person is simply just existing. And it is my vow, my marriage vow, to love them as they are. And so that developing our ability to accept people as they are is, is a key component of marriage and, and a lasting relationship. Because no one person is void of any faults or guilt when it comes to conflict, or bringing consistencies into a relationship, we all contribute to that. And being able to love and accept this person that you have vowed to love and accept, for better or for worse, is something that doesn’t just happen at the altar. It’s something that happens year after year, for the rest of your life. And then also just reminding yourself that this is this is a human being who is existing in the world with their own set of views, and passions and gifts and purpose is to fulfill and so it’s best to not stand in the way of that. And it’s best to get behind that and support it.

Kristen Carder 14:42
You just hit the nail on the head. And I’m so glad that you share that because I think one of the hardest things about being a person who is neurodivergent a person specifically with ADHD is first accepting ourselves. Like, what part of this is me? What part of this is ADHD? What parts? can I overcome? What parts? Do I just need to, like deal with and, and live with and then helping the people around us? Or asking the people around us like, Hey, can you love me anyway? Like, can I always lose track of time? And can you not make that about you? Or my commitment to you? And can you not make that about me being a good person or a bad person? Can I always forget? Details? And can you see that in me? Have it impact you in a negative way? And still accept me and love me? And not? I think the big difference is this, like shift happening in in a relationship, whether it’s a marriage, or a friendship, or whatever is like, the person with ADHD is not doing it to you, or because they don’t care. And I think it’s really easy for a partner or for a spouse, for a friend to think, why are you doing this to me? Why don’t you even care about me? Don’t you love me? If you did care, you would change he wouldn’t do it. And that I think that that took years and years and years for us to make that shift. But when we finally did, and not that we don’t have conflict? Of course we do. But generally, we can see. And I feel that from you, that you can see when I’m just struggling with my ADHD and that it’s not about you.

Greg Carder 16:41
Yeah, that’s taken a lot of time. That’s taken a lot of a lot of time to develop. Yeah, so I think that humans are always should always be changing, growing. I mean, they’re, you know, one of the things we talk about in our home too, is like, well, this is just me, you know, when people use that phrase, like, this is just me, there’s a lot of layers to that statement. But there’s appropriate and, and inappropriate usage of that phrase. So this is just me. So for example, if I referred to you by a certain name, that I thought was funny, or but you took it as offensive or inappropriate or, and this was driving a wedge between us and our relationship, that is something that you should be able to say to me stop doing that. And I should have the capacity in me to change that. To change that pattern to change that behavior. And so accepting me just as I am, was like, This is who I am. So I’m just gonna call you by that name. Well, that’s not how relationships work. But then there’s another side of that, where it is there are certain aspects of our personality, and certain pieces that are all wrapped up into just our being like ADHD, where it’s like, you do have to accept me as I am. And then the choice to love. And to not take that personally, whatever that whatever the outworking or the manifestation of that would be. Yeah, is the choice that both partners make in a marriage in order to make it work to keep the peace.

Kristen Carder 18:26
I’m thinking of an example from yesterday when I could not get the hose on. couldn’t turn that darn hose on. I had brought that listen to how great I am everyone I brought the trash can up from the curb. And then it stunk real bad. We have a son, we have three sons, any one of them could be guilty of this but he don’t close the trash bags properly. And food gets everywhere, etc. Okay, it’s it’s horrible. So I wanted to hose off the trash can and let it sit out in the sun. And I could not at first I had to like pull the hose down from the trampoline. Then I had to unscrew the the sprinkler I couldn’t do that. So I asked for your help with that. You unscrew the sprinkler then I couldn’t I couldn’t turn the nozzle on. So like, I just it it got me so fired up. And I came in the door and I was like, Okay, I turn the hose on. And I was at you. It was to you. And I just appreciate you so much. I think 510 years ago, you would have taken it personally it would have been a thing you would have felt like I was upset with you and like why do you have to yell at me when you can’t turn the hose on? And I felt from you? That kind of that bristle of like dang, like coolit but then also I just knew you understood. I just knew you knew it wasn’t about you. I felt the understanding from you. That I just needed your help. You just came out and you Turn the you turn the nozzle on, and it was like fine, I cooled up, sprayed that darn trash can down. It’s fine. But I think that moments like that, where my emotional regulation was off, and where I explode at you, even though it’s not about you, and and you understand now that that’s like, not about you. And I just I do feel that and I appreciate that. And I’m interested on your perspective, if you remember that incident that we haven’t talked about until this moment. I

Greg Carder 20:31
do. I mean, you described it exactly how it happened. What’s

Kristen Carder 20:34
the difference between you now and 10 years ago, you were 10 years ago, you I think, and you can correct me if I’m wrong, I think 10 years ago, you would have been, would have felt a feeling about it. And it may have lingered all day, where you’re just like, why did she yell at me about that?

Greg Carder 20:53
I wasn’t the last one. I used it. However tight it was.

Kristen Carder 21:00
That’s not on me. So why is she yelling at me. Whereas yesterday, I knew that you knew I wasn’t yelling at you. I was just yelling in your direction, because I was frustrated. And I needed your help. And I’d already asked for your help. And I had to ask for it again. And it’s hard to ask for help. I think what everyone wants is that version of their partner or their friend or their parent, where they can exist and have a moment. That’s not cute. And the person doesn’t make it a big thing and doesn’t make it about them and just understands like, Okay, this is about you, and you’re exploding and like your emotions are going crazy right now. And you’re frustrated at the hose and you feel like a child because you can’t unscrew things like I’m 43 Why can’t I unscrew anything, it’s very, internally demoralizing for me. And so then I get really frustrated.

Greg Carder 21:56
Yeah, so I would say the difference between past me and yesterday’s me would go back to something I said just a few minutes ago, like this is like when you’re looking at your spouse or your spouse shows up, it’s like, this is just who I am. That’s one of those. That’s one of those areas where this isn’t something that needs to evolve or change. This is Kristen being Kristen and, and so for our entire 20 years of marriage, I have had to help her unscrew the lid, or a water bottle, you know, our kids are coming home from school over and over and over again. And I also know that when it’s really hot, and she’s doing something she doesn’t want to do that there’s all sorts of emotion and like cleaning out a very stinky trash can, of which, you know, she really had no role in creating. It’s one of those just one of those things of being a parent or he’s have to deal with it being a homeowner, you just have to deal with it, even though it wasn’t your problem to begin with. It is your problem because you own the home and the trash can. And they’re your kids and you say got to clean up their messes. And it’s just I know that those things make you frustrated. And so that was one of those areas where I’m not going to demand that you change from that this is you existing in real time, reacting as fast as hard or as quickly as you wanted to in that moment. And so I just have to go with it.

Kristen Carder 23:28
I just appreciate it because it’s really made me just existing as a human, so much easier. Where I know I can have those moments. And then we can just move on. And again it not in an abusive way where I’m just like exploding all the time. Absolutely not. But there are moments that are touchpoints there are these these little blips where it’s just like, Oh, that’s not who I am normally. Yeah, I really do appreciate that. So since we spoke in 2020, on this podcast, we’ve had two kids diagnosed with ADHD, one of them also with a host of other diagnoses. And I’m curious and I think our listeners would be really interested in hearing for you as a neurotypical person who was brought up in a neurotypical family who has had really no, you know, childhood, adolescent, early 20s experience with this kind of stuff. And then you married a narrative agent person and listen, the jeans run real strong in this one, real strong. What has it been like for you? Being a parent of neurodivergent kids? It’s not something that we’ve talked about really on this pod together. And I think that that would be an interesting question for you to answer. What’s it like for you now to be a dad of two neurodivergent kiddos?

Greg Carder 24:56
A lot easier today than it was a couple years. years ago. Okay, so here I’m gonna about to reveal my ignorance here. And I think people who are listening who have had to live with this their entire life, you could potentially get mad at me Don’t get mad at me, I’m just, I’m, I’m, I just want to be honest here in this moment. Typical person with no experience with ADHD, assumed that when my kids were born, that there would be habits that would be developed in them. That would be a direct result of my parenting,

Kristen Carder 25:34
your amazing parenting tactics, disciplines,

Greg Carder 25:38
teaching and sharing of wisdom, fun play all of all of the things that are involved in parenting that over time, there would be skills related to attention, memory, losing things, completing assignments on time, understanding schedules, all this stuff, those would eventually just be instilled in the kids, by the time they got to elementary school. Oh, that’s cute. That is really cute. And so now 16 years later of parenting, that’s absolute BS, that there are, again, in this sort of earlier in the podcast episode I talked about being in relationship with you and loving you as you are, as this existent person who is both brings a lot of joy and a lot of, you know, personality into relationships, so to your kids. And so there’s things that you can’t change, necessarily about them. And so I would say the journey in parenting has been a journey of releasing control over what you can change and can’t change what is simply just them being them. And what isn’t. And so that’s changed the way that we talk to them, it’s changed the way that we’ve held them accountable for decisions that they make, it’s changed the way that we our expectations of them on their bedrooms, and how tidy it needs to be and all this stuff. So I grew up in a house where my bedroom was clean 24/7, I mean, my, my bed was always made, my laundry was always in the basket. And there were never dishes in the sink. There were never cups, water bottles are things left around the house. And you know, then I get married. And all of that is just a completely different experience. And then it multiplied as we had kids. And so the amount of dishes in the sink, the amount of cups and water bottles around the house, and the amount of clothes that were laying on the floor and all this stuff, it just kept growing. And there just came to be a point in time where there had to be an acceptance of this isn’t like a nurturer quality that I have somehow missed, as a parent or as a dad, you know, instilling some sort of value into my kids, but they’re, they’re certain out workings of their ADHD, that getting frustrated over was was like a like a hamster wheel, it was just this ongoing cycle of frustration that had no end or resolve. And so for a while, I was hoping that my kids would resolve that tension inside of me, for me, when they’re just a little bit older, this will get better when they’re just a little more mature, when they’re just their relationships little bit better, this will change that’ll change once they take ownership of their bedroom Baba stuff. And some of that’s just simply not true. And so I would say the journey has been a lot of just releasing control and letting go.

Kristen Carder 28:43
It’s really hard to acknowledge that that is like that is the journey, I think as a parent and as a spouse is releasing control of the other person and taking ownership of your own peace. Not that we don’t influence each other, not that it is not more peaceful when we’re all regulated and happy and tidy and bola. But I agree with you and I parented in in a very similar way, ironically, where I wanted my kids to act a certain way so that I could feel peaceful so that I wouldn’t be overwhelmed so that I wouldn’t be dysregulated and then realizing like, oh, kids are actually the worst. Making me feel peaceful. I’m really bad at it. And if I want to be happy and feel peace, then I then I need to like yeah, just like you said, let go of control. And that process is not easy. It’s not. It’s not easy. Yeah. I think so many of us are in relationships where we’re trying to get the other person to act a certain way so that we can feel a certain way. Yeah, for sure.

Greg Carder 30:01
For sure, to add one more comment on the ADHD stuff, when it came to ADHD, Kristin has, you’ve taken the lead on helping them get a diagnosis, ensuring not helping, you’ve ensured you made it a priority to ensure that they received an evaluation from a qualified professional and, and then also, you’ve taken the lead to make sure that their medication is exactly what they need to help them, you know, in ways that you didn’t receive help growing up. And so I just, I’m not absolving myself of any blame here. But as the one who is so deeply informed on what their struggles would be what you wish you had growing up, and the resources that are out there to help people, you have definitely, as the ADHD, one in the relationship, stepped into that role. And you’ve helped our kids get what they need the support systems and develop the support system that they need. That’s a nice,

Kristen Carder 31:07
I just really feel for parents who, and this is gonna sound so patronizing. But, you know, I am so entrenched in the community, and I’ve wrote all the books, I’ve talked to all the experts and like, what about parents who haven’t you know, and the parent like you, Greg, who’s neurotypical who maybe has a nerdy version, kiddo and a neurodivergent spouse and navigating it with people that just don’t have as much information or as much, or as much access to care. I feel really privileged to be in this position. And I really feel for people who just don’t have the access or the information or the understanding of it. One of the reasons why I wanted to have you on is because you have a lot of experience, counseling people in their marriages and doing premarital counseling. You’ve officiated a bunch of weddings and helps people kind of start the journey, but then have also been there to support them, you know, in their struggles. And I think that you have so much wisdom to share. I know you have so much wisdom to share. You’ve stayed married to someone who’s a little bit spicy for 20 years. I’m curious, what is your go to advice for married people or people in long term partnerships? How can people make these relationships successful? I know, it’s like really big and broad, but I’m sure you have an answer to that. So how, how do you suggest people make their marriages or their long term partnerships successful?

Greg Carder 32:42
Yeah. I like this question. And I, you know, like I said, having performed a bunch of marriages, and done premarital counseling and things, when you review these things with people who are engaged in who’ve only been together for, you know, a short period of time in compared to what will eventually hopefully become a lifetime. You know, everybody nods their head like, Well, yeah, that makes sense. Like, well, yes, every, every person in a marriage needs to know how to say the words, I’m sorry, every person in marriage needs to be able to know how to compromise every marriage needs, time, where you’re connecting time, where you’re relaxing time, when you’re working time, you know, it’s just, everyone just kind of nods their heads, whatever. But then you get into marriage and years into it, you begin to really see the issues that arise when you don’t allow for those things to develop and be true. And so before I answer these two things, you know, Chris, and I have been married for 20 years. And she did make a joke about, you know, her being the spicy one whenever. And it’s great. And it’s been great, but also like, you’ve been married to someone, you’ve been married to someone who no one has ever described as spicy. And so it works both ways. Just wanted to throw that out. Okay, so to answer that question, everybody needs a working definition for grace and mercy. And those are two words that we should probably we need to use more often in our language. We need to use more often in our own thinking in the way that we’re interpreting the conversations that are happening like right in front of us and our our spouse’s behavior and motives. And it’s like digging into what marriage is grace and mercy, that healthiest marriages that are going to last a long time and and that become a major drag are going to reveal evidence of both grace and mercy existing in the marriage. So let me give you what I think, at least from my perspective, when it comes to marriage counseling or whatever that might be that My two working definitions for these words. So Grace, to make it simple, giving a gift to someone that they don’t deserve. So when someone comes at you and blurts out, an energetic phrase, and they dump all of their emotion into a moment, or there’s a lack of impulse control, or they dropped the ball on something, or words came out of their mouth that were unkind, maybe even untrue, and they really don’t deserve to be nurtured, comforted or loved in that moment, even though I think human beings deserve to be loved, in every moment of their life, grace is giving your spouse or your partner a gift that maybe they don’t deserve to get. And so, to make a marriage work, you have to have the capacity to give, even when you don’t feel like it, even when the other person may not want to receive it. And even when the situation doesn’t even demand that it would be right to give a gift. And so like when I say give a gift, I’m not talking about like a physical present wrapped up, but I’m saying the gift of your self control, the gift of your kindness, and the gift of your love that at the end of the day, we’re gonna go to bed, we’re gonna love each other tomorrow. And we’re gonna start over. And it’s a gift. And we give that to our spouses all of the time and isn’t given take when it comes to grace. The other word is mercy and mercy is very similar and close. But there’s a subtle difference with grace and mercy, how would say mercy is holding back from giving someone what they do deserve. And so again, all of the same examples that I just gave apply, blurting something out a lack of impulse control, dropping the ball on something, someone may deserve to be punished for that. Or they may deserve to be reprimanded, or there may deserve to receive consequences as a result of that, you know, maybe maybe like a money decision was made, that really has a negative impact on your family’s budget. And someone may deserve to have decisions made that change the way that they have the ability to make that decision again, and but mercy would be withholding something that someone actually may deserve to get themselves. And I think a good marriage has a combination of grace and mercy when there’s a lot of giving, and there’s a lot of withholding. And none of it comes down really, ultimately to what we deserve. And so the word does this person deserve me to withhold or to give or to love, or to come for them or to nurture them or to commit to being kind to them the next day, the words deserve, that shouldn’t exist in our relationships, because this, this is a person who is endowed with worth from birth, they are a human being. And this is a person that you have vowed to love in better and worse. So let’s remove the word deserve from our marriages and our long term relationships. And let’s replace them with the grace to give them what they need and the mercy to withhold back something that their actions may have deserved.

Kristen Carder 38:31
makes any sense? Yeah, it does. I really appreciate you saying that. And I think that it’s hard, so hard. It’s hard, comma. But I think that gets easier and easier as you’re willing to show up for each other, and love each other and understand each other’s needs. And understand, like, what makes you tick, what makes you explode? What makes you upset what makes you withdraw? Understanding your person and this circles back to like accepting people for who they are not wanting to control them not wanting to use that person to make you feel a certain way. It’s all intertwined. Right? And like yesterday when I came in the house, and I was like, I need your help with, like this stupid hose. I can’t undo it. Like I deserve for you to just give it right back. Like why are you yelling at me? For what do you did it up but like, you withheld that? Because you know me? Because you understood that that wasn’t about you? Because you have a context for the way that my brain works. And also I don’t do that every day. I think that that would be a different conversation. If this was happening every day, multiple times a day. That would be a different conversation and it would be worth for sure. You know you saying like, hey, like I really don’t want to explode. Hang on me every single day just because you’re frustrated. So I think that that maybe it’s important to say, but you for sure gave me grace in that moment and withheld what I deserved, which is like I yelled at you. You could yell right back at me. Right? That would be like a tit for tat situation, which I don’t even really know what that means. That’s amazing. Yeah, I really appreciate you sharing that, is there anything else that you would say, to help a marriage be successful or a long term partnership be successful?

Greg Carder 40:29
Yeah, I’ll add one more, this is a practical tool, and I was able to share this one in a focus call a few months ago. So if it’s appropriate here to share again, for sure, it is, from my perspective, and it’s just one way that I have just in my personal life developed a tool is to remain self controlled. Because self control is, is it takes a lot of energy to remain self controlled. So, so much energy. And I think that, you know, the varying levels of energy it takes or just depends on the person, but everybody needs a practical tool on their belt, when it comes to getting along with someone that they are living with for a long, long time. And for me, this tool is called a mindful moment. Everybody needs to have a sentence that they develop, that in their brain will remind them of what it means to be mindful of the moment. And a sentence could be, could be short, it could be long, but it needs to be yours. So a sentence, that is in your wording that contains words that you understand the full meaning in the context of. So for me, my sentence is to help me be mindful in those moments of, let’s say, you know, like yesterday with the hose, my sentence is, am I willing to risk breaking the connection we have over what’s happening now. So for me, that sentence means is my desire to react or to match the reaction that’s coming at me? Am I willing to confront confrontation in a way that’s going to risk the next 24 hours or 48 hours of our connection, by resulting in a fight that will happen later, and something that needs to be resolved and something that brings up other emotions, or stirs up other things that’s going to lead to a home that is filled with conflict and tension, rather than a home that is filled with peace. And so from a practical standpoint, employ grace and mercy into your relationship. But practically, have a sentence in your brain that helps you be mindful in those moments when you have a decision to either react or to withhold. So for me, my sentence is, am I willing to risk breaking the connection we have over what’s happening now? Or am I willing to risk future connection, or breaking future connection over this present moment. And what that does for me is it just helps me resolve the moment and allows me just a second to take a breath. And to decide like, this person is just existing as they are, and my connection with them over the next. Whatever day and days to come is more important than me feeling justified in matching the energy that’s coming at me.

Kristen Carder 43:29
That’s so good. I really appreciate you sharing that. And I have my own sentence. Let’s hear I know, as you were speaking, I was trying to figure out, you know, it’s not something that I am super consciously practicing. But it’s one that I’ve realized in the last couple years that I’ve employed a lot. And the backstory on this is that I have a tendency, because of complex PTSD, to notice your tone, your mood, your really anything you do, and make it about me. And so I’m really hyper vigilant on your your mood changes, or just like the state of your body. So if I noticed that you’re a little bit down or you’re a little bit withdrawn, or you’re a little bit like you process things internally, and sometimes that means that like you’re just a little bit distant. I have started to ask myself, Is it possible that this is not about me? That’s my, that’s my little mindful moment that I really try to employ regularly. Is it possible that this is not about me? Because my go to is to say, what’s wrong? What did I do? What are you mad about? What’s what what’s going on? Is are you okay? Is there anything we need to talk about? And that’s actually you know, Once you’ve reassured me a couple times, and I keep asking, the pattern is then that, you know, you do actually get upset because I’m not believing you when you say like, I’m good. So I have also employed that tactic of just really trying to be mindful and bring myself back to the reality of it’s very possible that this is not about me. And I just like you said, I want to second the idea of for each person listening, whatever it is, in your marriage that you are realizing is a point of conflict or a point of like being stirred up to to have something that you can hold on to that at least will employ a pause. It doesn’t mean that I don’t then go to you and say, Hey, I’m noticing that you’re a little distant. If it’s not about me, that’s great. But I need a little reassurance. Can you let me know what’s going on. But what that means is I’m doing that thoughtfully and not reactively. So for me, that’s been really helpful.

Greg Carder 46:06
It’s been helpful for me to have noticed. Yeah,

Kristen Carder 46:10
I’m so glad you’ve noticed. I think there’s a difference in the energy of what I was doing prior to being aware, which is like, are you okay? Like, the energy is like really grasping and needy, and it was coming from a knee that was, you know, I’m not trying to dismiss that. But it’s hard to handle, I’m sure for you. And then if I can employ that pause of like, it’s possible. This is not about me, a lot of times I just let it go. Or sometimes if it kind of persists, and I noticed that it’s something that’s, you know, maybe going on the whole day or whatever, then I check in with you, but it is from a more grounded place that I’ve like thought it through more rather than being really reactive. Yeah,

Greg Carder 46:52
yeah.

Kristen Carder 46:56
We’re figuring it out.

Greg Carder 46:57
We are. Lovingly, faithfully, faithfully. Yeah, I would say the mindful moment, like a phrase can change. Over time, you know, different seasons might allow for, or call for different moments, I was thinking earlier in the episode here, as you have brought up, and I’ve heard you bring this up a lot. Only because I’m assuming it’s a concern in the community, that when one person is struggling with ADHD that they may be married to, or the partner who doesn’t get it or understand it, or accept them for it. Yeah, that’s I miss. I’m unbelievable. That’s pretty common. 100%? Yes. So like, a mindful moment. For someone in that situation might include words like, this person. doesn’t understand me yet. But I know they love me, or they’re committed to me. Is there another? Are there other words that we could add into to help people develop a sentence in a situation like that?

Kristen Carder 48:08
Because and that’s what I wanted to talk to you about next is like the the tension of being married to someone who just doesn’t get it. And I think you’re, you’re onto something. Because if you look at your marriage, and you can say, I know my partner loves me, comma, but they don’t get this part of me yet. Right. And, and I think that that can really cause like, this urgency and this desperation inside of the ADHD person of like, are they ever going to get it? Or are they always going to hold this against me? This is the this is, you know, is this as good as it’s going to get? And I think what you’re helping us to reflect on is, does my partner love me? Are they committed to me? Have I seen patterns of them? Being faithful to me, and giving me grace and mercy in certain times? If the answers to those are like, yes, at least sometimes, then it is really possible that they are going to get there. Right, that they’re maybe they’re on at the very beginning of their journey of understanding. But don’t hold them. Don’t hold them to the standard of Greg Carter being married for 20 years to Kristin in the last 10 years of that being immersed in ADHD culture, right? Like, that’s not fair. Because that’s 10 years. So like, if you can think about your spouse in 10 years, maybe they will get it is that worth the journey and the helping them to get there?

Greg Carder 49:51
It is absolutely worth it.

Kristen Carder 49:52
It’s so worth it. Okay, so let’s let’s transition to that that last question that I have for you, which is like, there’s a lot of listeners who have ADHD, who are married to partners who are neurotypical just like you who grew up in families, just like you’re just like, everything is tidy, everything is organized. We do everything by schedule, like there is no spiciness. There’s no neuro divergence. How can an ADHD partner help the neurotypical partner to start making this transition from you know, just totally not even being aware of ADHD? To someone who is more understanding and accepting of it? I think that there’s probably a lot of people listening that line. Yes, please help me tell me how to do that.

Greg Carder 50:42
Okay, great question. This is one that you did send to me ahead of time. So I do appreciate having some time to think about it, because it does take looking back over time and reflecting on what my perspective wasn’t. And how we navigated that, I would say like, don’t underestimate the value of being proactive. And so any ADHD spouse helping a neurotypical partner, don’t underestimate the value of gently sharing, and pointing people in the direction of and pointing out the great things that you have learned so far, I would say if you are with a partner, who is struggling to understand you, like make sure that you’re doing the work of pointing your ADHD out at appropriate times. And to apply the things that we’ve talked about already on this episode, it has to be done with grace, and it has to be done at the appropriate times under a level of control, because there’s two ways to point things out, right? You could say to somebody, but like I told you this already, come on, don’t you get it, I’m tired of explaining this to you. And you can do all sorts of emotion and tone and lashing out and facial expressions in that that will immediately put your partner in a defensive mode or a defensive posture, where they, they’re gonna think that you’re, that you think they’re stupid, and that the candidate is not loving you the right way, and all that stuff, but you’re not going to get anywhere reacting that way. And so, I know, it’s very hard to live with something that you need your partner to understand and accept. And over time, that can be very, very frustrating when it seems like they’re just not getting it, that frustration can grow. And so I would, I would just encourage you to, like stay connected to a community of people who you can share this story with, who didn’t give you the tips and the tools to help navigate moments like these, because we all deal with that frustration. With that said, but we still do have a responsibility to help the people that we are with, understand the journey that we’re on, because they, for example, like with you and I, I was not there for your childhood. I don’t, I wasn’t in your home, we didn’t live anywhere near each other. And all the vacations, the schools and how you and your parents handled homework and learning how to drive and, and navigating friendships, not like all 23 years of experience leading up to the start of our relationship together, I just wasn’t there for it. So there is trauma from the past, there are patterns that influence and inform current ways of thinking and decision making, that I am simply just not attuned to. And so I would say that as much as you can be proactive in pointing out to your spouse or your partner, that hey, this is this moment, it connects to something that has been so frustrating for me growing up or something that my family just hasn’t been able to resolve or accepting me yet. Or, Hey, this is an example of something that I wish you understood about me being proactive in that has a tremendous amount of value. Not only in just explaining, when I say being proactive, I don’t mean just like explaining to the people around you. But like one of the things that that you Christian have done in our marriage is occasionally like, you’ll send me a reel on Instagram or a podcast episode. And I remember very clearly, one time you said this podcast episode, I believe will help you understand the relationship that I have, or had with my parents or what my home was like growing up. And that you know, so I took the time to then go listen to that episode, and it just it added a piece to the puzzle. Again, being someone who’s willing to take a few practice steps and what you’re pointing out is, is a big part of it but the person who’s trying to communicate, you know, their ADHD to a neurotypical partner, I would say, just don’t underestimate the value of being proactive in pointing out, and patiently faithfully, helping them understand that, hey, this is an example of or this is a time when, or, Hey, this person’s telling a story that I relate to do you mind listening to it, I have found that just in my life to be incredibly helpful.

Kristen Carder 55:27
So two things that come up for me, when you say that, and I really appreciate you sharing, the first thing that comes up, for me is the human tendency to just want your partner to know, I just like meaning, I don’t want to have to explain it. I just want them to know, like, I think we have this tendency where it’s like, well, if they loved me, then they would just No, or they would just do the research on their own. Or they would just like, Why do I have to be the one to explain it, to say it to communicate it and like, yeah, in a perfect world, that would be amazing. But none of us get that we all have to be vulnerable. And that’s the second thing that I wanted to say is that there is a measure of vulnerability that has to be uncovered and revealed, when you are sharing these deep, whether it’s about ADHD, or your past or whatever, if you want someone to understand you, and accept you and connect with you, there is this level of vulnerability that we have to employ. That actually, I think for a lot of ADHD years is really, really uncomfortable. Because we spend so much time trying to protect ourselves from vulnerability, trying to protect ourselves from rejection, trying to protect ourselves from people knowing what we’re like behind the scenes. And so what I have found is that the more vulnerable I am with you, the more you understand me. But the vulnerability is the hurdle that I have to overcome in order to get there. And that is very difficult for me to kind of put myself out there to expose myself to your potential rejection, to expose myself to being like that stupid, which you don’t do. But there’s this protective part of me that wants to say, don’t tell him don’t share it with him don’t like he’s, he’s not going to, he’s not going to get it or it’s going to be dismissed or et cetera. And of course, that’s tied to past stuff. But so to the ADHD are listening, I just asked a question yesterday, because I’m teaching a course on relationships in focus. And I asked my community, if they identify as being hyper independent, meaning like wanting to take care of everything on their own, not really wanting to let people in. And a large majority of the, of the community said yes, and I think that just, I don’t know that that speaks for every, you know, for the ADHD community at large. But I think a lot of us would identify as being that hyper independent, wanting to solve it on our own, not really wanting to let anybody in. And the problem with that is, then we don’t have this connection and relationship, where there’s deep understanding and where there’s deep acceptance, because I have to first be vulnerable and vulnerability feels like, horrible. And that’s, I think, for the ADHD are the hurdle to overcome in order to get that connection and understanding. Yep,

Greg Carder 58:36
yep, I totally see that. It does sound sugar coated. When I say be proactive. But in your being proactive, there may be a few arguments that you have to have. Because your partner may react to a video clip that you send them or a podcast episode that you’ve asked them to listen to. And they might react to that in in rejection of it. Or they might try to explain why they think the host of that podcast episode is wrong and where and where it all fell apart or whatever. And then you go through all those feelings of like, okay, I’m gonna be proactive in helping you understand where I’m coming from. And then you hit pause on that, while you argue and work out what it means in a relationship, to share information with each other. And how to receive that well, without putting the other person down. Introduce a whole nother layer and set of conversations, but it’s all part of the process. Mm hmm.

Kristen Carder 59:37
Yeah, and if you feel like you and your spouse are not equipped to do that, I would highly recommend couples counseling, couples therapy, some sort of mediator, a third party that can help you navigate those conversations because, you know, looking back, that probably would have made our life a lot easier if we sat with someone who could have help us navigate that we did eventually get to the point where we’re able to communicate and we express our needs, et cetera, et cetera. But like, oh, we probably could have supercharged that by sitting with someone else. That wasn’t even a thought that crossed our minds. Yeah, at least not my mind. I want to release you listener and assign a permission slip for you that if this is something that, you know, you start the process, and it’s just not going well, and you just feel like you’re not being heard and you’re not being validated. And, and it’s bringing up so much tension that maybe your partner is kind of unwilling to resolve, like, seek out a couples therapist determine whether or not your relationship is worth fighting for determine whether or not connection is worth fighting for, determine whether or not your partner really understanding you is worth fighting for. And if so, like really make the effort in a therapy situation, if that’s available to you, I highly recommend it, I have someone very close to me who just went through the process of couples therapy, they were in for about six months. And it completely changed their ability to communicate, to understand each other and it, it was like, hard and kind of slow going at first. But I really saw the value of couples therapy through the perspective of just like loving this person and seeing their marriage change. So I just want to throw that out there that that’s an option as well. Thanks for being here. Thanks for being the person that always allows me to put my feet on their leg and paw at you at the end of the day. I don’t know I think the ADHD ears will understand that I appreciate just the peace and the groundedness that you bring to my life into our home and I’m I can’t believe that we got married you and I like wow, we’re so different. And just the fact that we were brought together and when I look back over the last 20 years, I’m like, that was a pretty great decision. Probably the best decision of my whole life. So I’m so glad that you’re the one

Greg Carder 1:02:06
ready to go. I feel the same way. Love

Kristen Carder 1:02:10
yours to another 20 Huh?

Greg Carder 1:02:12
Yeah, can’t wait.

Kristen Carder 1:02:15
Thanks for being here. Appreciate you happy. Hey, ADHD, or I see you I know exactly what it’s like to feel lost, confused, frustrated and like no one out there really understand the way that your brain works. That’s why I created focused. Focused is my monthly coaching program where I lead you through a step by step process of understanding yourself feeling better and creating the life that you know you’re meant for. You’ll study be coached, grow and make amazing changes alongside of other educated professional adults with ADHD from all over the world. Visit Ihaveadhd.com/focused to learn more