Kristen Carder 0:18
Hey, what’s up? This is Kristin Carter, and you’ve tuned into the I have ADHD podcast. I am medicated, caffeinated, regulated and ready to roll. I’m here today to talk with my dear friend and client, Liz Poggi, and we’re going to talk all about task initiation, self motivation, the difficulties that ADHD ers have, getting ourselves up and moving and started and going even on things that we actually do want to do. It is so difficult. It is so hard. But before we get started, I want to remind you listen if you like the show, if you love the show, if I have given you anything in these podcasts, like, share, subscribe, follow, do all the things. Leave a comment as we’re having this conversation. I would love to hear your thoughts and what you struggle with, or if you relate to what Liz and I are saying, leave a comment on YouTube. It’s such a huge dopamine boost when we get the comments and the likes and the shares. So go ahead and do that for us. And let’s get started. Let’s talk about task initiation, self motivation, and how ADHD ers can get up off of their sweet behinds and get moving on the things that they want to do. So Liz, my friend, my dear client, I believe you’ve been in focus for four years. Yes, and I had the privilege of training you as a coach. So welcome to the podcast.

Liz Poggi 1:43
Oh, thank you. Am I really excited to be here, and it’s a huge honor. This is always one of my goals, and so to be here is for real amazing. Yeah, cool, yeah, yeah. It’s awesome.

Kristen Carder 1:53
Tell us a little bit about yourself. What do you do? Where do you live? Like, what are what? What are the things about you?

Liz Poggi 2:00
Yeah, I live at the beach in New Jersey with my dog Luna, who’s sort of the center of my universe, and spend a lot of time walking the beach finding sea glass. It’s like the only thing I’m an expert at is finding sea glass. And yeah, and I’ve been doing this since right like joining focused and really completely changed my life, moving from a hectic place to getting trained as an ADHD coach. Now I completely design my days, and I do it so that I’m emotionally regulated most of the time, so I get really excited, like here, most of the time I’m pretty emotionally regulated, because I intentionally do the things that I need to do. And I really enjoy coaching women who are diagnosed as adults. I was diagnosed, I still kind of remember like 34 or 35 and it was a total accident. And I just really love helping people through that whole process.

Kristen Carder 3:02
Yeah, would you tell us a little bit about your diagnosis story, like, what was that like for you?

Liz Poggi 3:06
Sure? Um, it was, it was it was ride. It was wild. Um, I keep, I always say that I was accidentally diagnosed because I wasn’t seeking a diagnosis and I didn’t go in for any mental health concern, wow. Yeah, so I’ve had a lot of concussions, like in the 20s and and by 20s I mean, like number of concussions, not when I have

Kristen Carder 3:37
your 20s, but You mean you’ve had 20 plus? Concussions, yes, wow.

Liz Poggi 3:44
And so I’ve lived most of my life, particularly since I was a freshman in high school, to sort of back to back with a lot of just like symptoms and things from that and just is normal to me. And then it was February of 2020, so before COVID, I was skiing with some friends, and I was wearing a helmet, like, oh, wow, this girl wears the helmet always. And some like, kid just got off the ski lift and kind of knocked me over. Thank goodness I have my helmet on, but it was just a bad concussion, and I actually had to go on short term disability from work, and it it was really difficult. And instead of getting better, I was kind of getting worse, and I got really nervous, like, this is it? This is this is the concussion that, like, broke my brain completely. Like, I’m done with life now, like I’m just gonna be a vegetable forever. And I went, I was working with a specialist, a concussion neurologist, and she sent me in for cognitive testing because I was convinced that I was losing my marbles and it was supposed to be. Two day, eight hours of testing, and at the end of the first day, the doctor said to me, like, I have never done this before, but I cannot, in good conscience, let you, like leave here today without telling you that you have the worst case of undiagnosed ADHD, I have ever seen Wow. Ever seen Wow? I was not expecting it. I was like, what? I was like, like, what can you repeat that? I’m sorry, what? I had no, no idea what really ADHD was, yeah, I had just the normal sort of idea of it. And, yeah, and that’s how it happened.

Kristen Carder 5:39
That is wild. So I’m really curious if you had experienced ADHD symptoms prior to the concussions. Like that is something that you had seen, and then the concussions maybe, like, made it worse.

Liz Poggi 5:53
Yes, because, and my understanding for a true diagnosis of ADHD is that you have to have had presented these symptoms before age 12, right, right, right. And yeah, all of them, like the spacey, the daydreaming, the No, the time blindness, the room is always the mess. My stockings always had runs in them because I was always falling like I was just cute, very active.

Kristen Carder 6:16
Do you think even the ADHD contributed to having all the concussions? Like, under know how we can be very clumsy and just like our spatial awareness and all of that, yeah, impulsivity, absolutely, wow.

Liz Poggi 6:29
And there’s a lot of research that supports that, and it’s, it’s all just made so much sense. Yes, it just everything makes so much sense. And then I think even beyond that, like being in focused, I’ve learned about other like things that I have from other members, and it’s like, oh, but that’s also what caused these things. And it’s really nice, because I lived 35 years without any doctor knowing what any of it was. And then, like, I can meet someone in focus who has the same exact thing, and they have a diagnosis of whatever that may be, and it’s just, it’s awesome.

Kristen Carder 7:06
It’s like putting puzzle pieces together, which I know is like a cliche that we use, but like, for sure, it can really feel like that. Yes, yes. Wow. So how do you choose to treat your ADHD or, like, help your symptoms. Like, what are the things that you have done? Decided to do over the years to manage this worst case of ADHD that this doctor has ever seen,

Liz Poggi 7:30
Worst case of undiagnosed. okay, yes, so I actually didn’t believe him at first, okay? And everyone that I talked to is like, what are you like, you don’t have ADHD, you’re so smart you have three degrees from Georgetown. Like, there’s no way that you have this.

Kristen Carder 7:48
You’re too smart to have. ADHD, like, too smart. It’s so frustrating to me

Liz Poggi 7:54
Look at all the things that you get done. Yeah, yeah, right, yeah. And so I really resisted it for a long time. And again, it was, it was joining focused and like talking to other women who had that same issue, like I had imposter syndrome, about having ADHD, oh, I was like, I don’t belong. I’m not like, I’m not allowed to do this. And, yeah, yeah. And actually, like a coaching tool for a long time, was like, this is harder for me because I have ADHD, yes. And then I was like, Wait, that’s not fair. Maybe I don’t have ADHD because maybe there’s other people who don’t have ADHD, and actually it’s harder for them than it is for me. So I joined focused. I wait. I think it was about a year, a year and a half, I tried some different medications, and I had to get a lot of coaching on that too, because I would tell my one on one coach, like, I feel like I’m cheating, like it’s not fair.

Kristen Carder 8:59
I think so many people are gonna resonate with that, because I feel, or I hear from a lot of people who think that it’s like an unfair advantage, yes, rather than just, like leveling the playing field, yeah, like making it so that we’re all starting at the same starting line

Liz Poggi 9:17
100%. and I think what kind of clicked for me, finally, was they were, like, you wear glasses to like, bring you back to baseline, yep. Like, do you think wearing your glasses is cheating? Right? Like, no,

Kristen Carder 9:30
it doesn’t give you the power to like, what is it called? Like, X ray vision, right? Like, you don’t get that. You just get to see the way everyone else sees. Yeah, yeah, it’s good, yeah.

Liz Poggi 9:42
So I do take a stimulant medication. Okay, I know my body really well. I do have a lot of neurological issues and symptoms, so I I take, like, an immediate release stimulant and I change the amount I take every day. Oh, wow. So. So it depends. I’ve gotten really good at understanding my body and knowing what I need to do that day, and I really adjust my medication as needed. Wow. Because with the shortage, like, for a while, I was scared to take my medications. I was like, I don’t know when we will get it again. Yeah, absolutely, yeah.

Kristen Carder 10:16
I’m curious. So you take a stimulant medication you’ve been in focused for since its inception or shortly after?

Liz Poggi 10:26
Yea, I was in, like, maybe, like, it was May 2020, so I was, like, five months late.

Kristen Carder 10:32
I’m actually curious why you joined if you weren’t convinced that your ADHD diagnosis was legitimate, like, What in the world kind of prompted you to join a community of ADHD years when you were like, I don’t really know if I have it or I’m not really sure that’s my own curiosity there.

Liz Poggi 10:51
I mean, this is gonna sound like so annoying. It’s gonna sound like I’m just kissing your ass. But it was you. So like, I had, I already was, had been following Brooke Castillo In The Life Coach School. So I was already familiar with coaching, and I was like, why is it not working for me? Like, how? Why am I doing this wrong? Like, when people say, just change the belief I’m like, but it just keeps coming, like, and there’s like seven there’s like seven things, and I don’t, what do you mean? Yeah, so I happened to find your just listen to podcasts, found yours, and because you were speaking that language and then sharing so much of your story, I was like, oh, okay, okay, get this now. Like, that’s beautiful. I got it. Imposter syndrome did not totally go away, I’m sure, but that’s why I joined, and I actually messaged you on Instagram. And I was like, I’m already in, like, self coaching scholars. Like, do I need this? And you were like, I don’t know. Probably not.

Kristen Carder 11:55
How’s that for sales and marketing, my friend.

Liz Poggi 11:57
And then I was like, you know, it was so affordable. And I was like, I get, I’ve gotten so much out of your podcast, yeah. Like, I will just, I feel like I just owe you this money, and that’s why I’m still in I’m like, just the podcast. I feel like is worth the amount of money that I pay each month. To be totally honest,

Kristen Carder 12:14
I don’t know what to say. That’s so kind. That’s so kind. Oh, my heart. I feel it in my heart. Thank you. So we are here to talk about self motivation and task initiation, and because I’ve known you for four plus years, I just know how you operate and how much you’re able to accomplish and how you do deep dives into certain things, like notion, and you’re very like organized and systematic. And I thought you would be the perfect person with ADHD to talk about what it’s like to struggle with self motivation, to struggle with task initiation, even though you’re so accomplished, you have degrees from Georgetown, you have been very successful, and yet this is a deficiency that you struggle with. I know you do okay. So my first question is, what is like, task initiation, self motivation? What does that mean to you in your world? Like? How would you describe it? Yeah,

Liz Poggi 13:23
it’s not a term I use often. So I was thinking about this, yeah, because before I was diagnosed, I went, like, way down the productivity rabbit hole. And like, I have read every book and studied every productivity, everything, and so, like, the term task is hard for me because it it task and to do are kind of the same. Like, it could be a whole, whole thing could be, record a podcast, brush your teeth, totally right. Like, write a book, or drop the kids off at school. And so I don’t like the word task. I think of actions as things that are like, I think most people do to do’s, and then I just tie everything into, like, projects. So for me, this system works because it helps me, like, be really intentional about what I’m doing. I think that’s the biggest thing, is just always looking back to, like, why am I doing this? And like, what is what is it moving the needle for? Like, what is this contributing to?

Kristen Carder 14:29
Yep, yep, and does that go hand in hand with like, self motivation, because if I know why I’m doing it, then I feel that motivation to do it,

Liz Poggi 14:37
for sure, a big part, right? Because I think before I was diagnosed, before coaching, I kind of lived in, like, other people’s priorities, like, Yes, I just did what I thought I had to do. I was going like full speed down that highway of, like, accomplishing what I thought I needed to do. And I realized a lot of the things that I was doing weren’t actually. Be important to me, and I didn’t realize I had a choice whether or not to do them. And then when you can stop doing those things right, then you have the ability right to regulate yourself enough to do the things you want to work on. So that’s like, from a work perspective. But like, also I it takes me, like, sometimes, two hours to tell myself to get up to put my sneakers on. So, so it’s at, like, the big picture stuff is almost easier for me, and then it’s the day to day things that, like, I feel like I’m just stuck in the mud, or like, you know those dreams where you’re like, can’t move, yeah, like someone’s holding you back. Yes, that that’s what it feels like all the time.

Kristen Carder 15:42
Why? Why? Why? Why in the world? Is it harder for us to do just the simple go, brush your teeth, go take a shower, do the dishes? Why is it harder for us to do those tasks, rather than like the big the big ones like I so resonate with what you just said right there. Like, it can be so much harder to just get out of bed in the morning or put my shoes on or go for a walk. Even though I love walking, you get to walk on the beach every day, right? But like, why is it harder to do those things

Liz Poggi 16:16
help because we have a neurodevelopmental disorder that a lot of people don’t believe in. But, like, That’s it, yeah? And I think that’s really the key. Like, there’s always people, like, everyone’s a little add or, like, someone says to me a lot, like, I don’t believe in that, H, D, A, D, crap. Like, okay, well, maybe if you looked into it, like, it’d be great, and it’s a terrible word, right? Like, it’s not about attention. Yeah. A client once said to me, it’s like amplification, yes. So it’s like, all of our great qualities are amplified and all of our bad qualities are amplified. So true. So like, where neurotypical also might not want to get out of bed in the morning, they have the ability to regulate themselves and say, like, I gotta Yeah, whereas, like, we just have all these voices in our head and we’re so out of touch with our body. I think that it’s, I think that’s really it. I

Kristen Carder 17:14
think you’re right. I’m curious. Like, as you reflect on your life, where have you seen your deficiency and self motivation and task initiation? Like, really bite you in the butt. Like, where, where can you look back and, like, maybe share a story about, like, where it’s been especially difficult, or where you’re just, like, I can see that that was not just me being lazy, not just me, you know, not caring enough, but, like, truly, task initiation, self motivation, like, was not allowing me to do the thing.

Liz Poggi 17:53
Yeah, it’s such a good question. And I think what’s interesting and, and this speaks to, like, how different ADHD is from like normal procrastination is, I think it’s impacted relationships the most, because it doesn’t. It’s not just like doing the dishes, but it’s, it’s like getting up and understanding how time works, and like trying to be somewhere on time, and like having all of these intentions. I have three boxes of cards. Half of them are written. Half of them have addresses. Some of them even have stamps on them. And it’s like, yes, you know, I feel like a bad friend because I like, forget these birthdays or whatever. So I feel like I like, overcompensate for things and try to over explain, yeah, and like, apologize, like, but this is what if, this is why I’m late. And I think a lot of people look at it as a character flaw 100% and they’re like, Well, my sister’s this for sure. Like, you think that your time is more important than mine? Like, no, I really don’t. Like, I actually think the opposite. You have three kids. Yeah, I have all the time in the world. Yeah, like, it couldn’t be further from the truth, but that’s what people really see and believe, because it’s such it’s an invisible issue. And, yeah, it’s what I studied psychology undergrad. And there’s, I forget the name of it, but basically, there’s people who can’t see faces, like they don’t register faces. And I try to explain it like that, like I don’t get that. I can’t even picture it. I don’t understand it, right? But I know it’s real, yeah? And I wish people would give us the benefit of the doubt sometimes, and be like, Yeah, I can’t possibly understand what you’re talking about. There’s no way to describe it, but I believe you,

Kristen Carder 19:45
what does it feel like for you when somebody that you really want to be close with says something like that to you? Like, you think your time is more important than mine? Like, what does that bring up for you? What’s that like? I

Liz Poggi 19:59
mean, for most. Of my life, like, before coaching it, it led to, like, zero self worth, zero self love. There’s something wrong with me, yeah, especially with the concussions. I was, like, my I’m broken, yeah? Like, I’m not lovable. I don’t deserve these things because I can’t do it right, yeah, I can’t reciprocate in the same way, and I think that’s been the biggest piece of coaching. Is just learning to value yourself, all the self concept work we’re doing right now in focus, and just learning to accept and love yourself, because when people say those things, like, I don’t know, like, I don’t know, like, yeah, you just feel like, yeah, I must be right. I must be wrong, because there’s no one telling you that you’re right. Yes, yes. There’s no one there to give the opposite opinion. And

Kristen Carder 20:55
that’s why a community matters, whether it’s the focus community or some other community of people with ADHD, that’s why community matters, right? Yes, yeah, so that you have other voices saying, No, there’s like, we know that you are well intentioned, and we believe that you have your sister’s best interest in mind, and yet you still are incapable of getting to the place on time. Like you’re not going to do it. You’re not going to get there on time. Yeah,

Liz Poggi 21:26
I totally agree that validation and acceptance and just fine. It’s like you found other unicorns and zebras. Yeah, you found your people. And that’s I in my like, welcome packet for clients who come through focus, I actually write like, it felt like coming home to me, because I go finally, like, there’s this place where I don’t have to think about anything before I say it. I just show up exactly as myself. Yeah, and like, the the like, the worst day I’m having, like, that’s when I go, because the people there just help you feel like it’s okay. We got you Yeah, tomorrow’s a new day. Yeah. And nine times out of 10, it’s like, decision fatigue and like you’re done, your cognitive load is just so true. Over and just go get some sleep. Just go get some sleep. I just

Kristen Carder 22:22
want that for everyone. And again, like it’s not necessarily about focus, but like every ADHD or needs people who are championing them and cheering for them and believe the best about them, because so many people in the world believe the worst about us, so many people, even the people closest to us, yes, will believe that we have bad intentions or that we’re just selfish, or that we are choosing to be difficult, and it’s like, yeah, to have other people where they’re just like, No, we get you right? Yeah, yeah,

Liz Poggi 22:55
because it’s like, you care so much, and there’s that sensitivity, and you want people to understand, and that just makes it worse.

Kristen Carder 23:03
Everyone with ADHD knows what to do to improve their lives. You go to bed at a reasonable time and you wake up early, make a list, cross the things off the list in order manage your time. Well, yeah, we know what to do, but ADHD is not a disorder of not knowing what to do. It’s a disorder of knowing exactly what to do but not being able to get yourself to do it. That’s why ADHD is so frustrating. We’re smart and we want to succeed, but we can’t get ourselves to do the things that we know we should do in order to make improvements. That’s why I created focused. I’m a life coach with multiple certifications, and since 2019 I’ve spent 1000s of hours coaching adults with ADHD. Time for me to focus on you. Hello. Welcome to your coaching call. I am going to be coaching you today on relationships. I know what it takes to help an adult with ADHD. Go from Hot Mess express to grounded and thriving focused is my monthly coaching membership where we go deep and we get to the root cause of what holds us back. With ADHD, I’ll teach you how to understand your ADHD brain, regulate your emotions and accept yourself, flaws and all with this foundation, we build the skills to improve life with ADHD, and not only do you get skills and tools in focus, but you’re surrounded by a huge community of adults with ADHD who are also doing the work of self development right alongside of you. Dr Ned Hallowell says healing happens in community, and I have absolutely found this to be true. As a matter of fact, listen to what actual focus members have to say about being in this program. What can I say

Focused Member 24:49
about focused, full community of people who have issues similar to you and judge you? Focus

Focused Member 24:54
just really supported me with my difficulties in asking help. I’ve been encouraged and cheered on by the community.

Focused Member 24:59
It. I really like that you can do as much core as little as you want. It’s it’s not just about the volume of the content. It’s about the quality. Focus has helped me understand ADHD better. I would recommend this to anyone. I would thoroughly recommend focus. I can confidently say that this is one of the best decisions that I have made for myself. So if you’re

Kristen Carder 25:18
an adult with ADHD who wants to figure out how to be motivated from the inside out and make real, lasting changes in your life. Join hundreds of others from around the world in focused click the link in the episode description to check it out. So task initiation, self motivation, it’s tied into a couple things. So we have fewer dopamine receptors, right? Which means that we, as people with ADHD, we just don’t get as much dopamine as a neurotypical person. Our reward system is broken. It’s straight up broke, and it we don’t get those good feelings about doing the mundane things. Right? And then, in addition to that, we struggle with emotional regulation, which is a whole separate issue, but it’s very closely tied together, because when we start feeling those like the resistance in our body to doing the thing, even if it’s the thing that we want to do, we plan to do we’re excited about having done it, not about doing it right, but about having it accomplished. When we start to feel that resistance and dread or whatever else, then it’s so hard to regulate and soothe our emotions. So before we talk about emotional regulation. I’m curious about what are some of the most basic things that you feel like, self motivation, task initiation interrupts for you. So you mentioned getting out of bed in the morning. You mentioned like getting your shoes on. Where else do you would you describe it as resistance? Like, how would you describe it? Let’s talk about that. First,

Liz Poggi 27:03
it’s so interesting because it almost just feels like it’s always there, yeah? And I do think, like, you know, was it Maslow’s or, like, the hierarchy of needs, yeah? Like once I stopped, like, the rat race and the hustle and just started taking care of myself, right? Then I was able to self motivate more. But when you don’t take care of yourself, like there’s you’re trying to self actualize, and you don’t even have your most basic need met, and then you add, like a trauma layer. So

Kristen Carder 27:33
task initiation, self motivation, it’s tied into a couple things. So we have fewer dopamine receptors, right? Which means that we, as people with ADHD, we just don’t get as much dopamine as a neurotypical person. Our reward system is broken. It’s straight up broke, and it we don’t get those good feelings about doing the mundane things. Yeah, right. And then, in addition to that, we struggle with emotional regulation, which is a whole separate issue, but it’s very closely tied together, because when we start feeling those like the resistance in our body to doing the thing, even if it’s the thing that we want to do, We plan to do we’re excited about having done it, not about doing it right, but about having it accomplished. When we start to feel that resistance and dread or whatever else, then it’s so hard to regulate and soothe our emotions. So before we talk about emotional regulation, I’m curious about what are some of the most basic things that you feel like? Self motivation, task initiation interrupts for you. So you mentioned getting out of bed in the morning. You mentioned like getting your shoes on. Where else do you would you describe it as resistance? Like, how would you describe it? Let’s talk about that. First, it’s

Liz Poggi 29:02
so interesting because it almost just feels like it’s always there, yeah. And I do think, like, you know, was it Maslow’s or, like, the hierarchy of needs? Yeah? Like once I stopped, like, the rat race and the hustle and just started taking care of myself, then I was able to self motivate more. But when you don’t take care of yourself like there’s you’re trying to self actualize, and you don’t even have your most basic need met, and then you add like, a trauma layer that a lot of us have, right? And so there’s just no way for you to expect yourself to excel and perform and achieve if your basic needs are not being met like that’s science that’s universally accepted as true. We need

Kristen Carder 29:46
to talk more about that. I think that’s so important and really needs to be the focus here, because I don’t think that most ADHD ers are aware of their basic needs. I don’t think they validate their basic. Needs most I’m saying I’m talking generalities, but I’ve talked to a lot of people with ADHD, and I think that this is one of the hardest things for us. So first, let’s just define what do you mean when you say basic needs? What does that mean to you?

Liz Poggi 30:13
Yeah, so for me, it’s interesting. I have, like, my four M’s. I do routines because it makes it easier. Okay, like, I don’t have to think it just I just, like, kind of go through stuff. But so for every routine I have, I have, like, movement, mindfulness, me and medication. So I’m like, am I medicated? And then like, do I need water, like, food, that kind of just goes in there, like, a mindful minute, anything from meditating for 20 minutes to like, Hi, I’m here. I’m present. Like anything mindful, like, Oh, this is black. And then any sort of movement. So you start the day with walks on the beach. I work out the trainer in the middle of the day. But like jumping jacks or dancing, or, like, even just a big stretch, right? Like, just moving your body helps you reconnect with it, because our mind body connection is so off. So I think those four things are my personal basic needs, and then, like sleep and water, or like oxygen for me,

Kristen Carder 31:19
yes. Can you repeat the 4m for us? For me, it’s medication,

Liz Poggi 31:23
mindfulness movement and me, I didn’t do the so the last one, that was me. That’s a new one I added. And it’s all about like, actually checking in, like, how am I feeling right now? And I think this is really important for task initiation, and it’s something that my clients really resist at first, but then once it clicks, it’s just like, like, I see the light. Yes, yes. Is you have to know? Like, do I actually have the mental or physical energy to do this thing? Yeah. And is this the thing that I actually planned on doing right now. Like, am I just walking past the kitchen and telling myself I should do the dishes, or is it something that, like I’ve planned to do right and then again, it goes back to those basic needs. Like, if I haven’t slept, I could work for 12 hours on something, and it’s crap, absolutely so it’s like, how me, what’s me? What’s the emotion, what’s happening? Check in and just reminding myself, like I am me. I have ADHD, and I accept that, like I am always going to feel resistance. Yeah, it’s just there. Expecting it to be there helped me realize it’s not a problem, right? And then it’s like, you’re not the problem. I’m not the problem. I’m not the it’s just,

Kristen Carder 32:46
I just am curious when your clients, or if somebody listening were to say to you, I don’t have time for that. I have so much going on. There’s so much like everything is on fire. I’ve been using that term so much recently, like, yeah, everything feels like it’s on fire. I don’t have time for Yeah, 1m let alone four M’s, Liz, like, how am I gonna do How am I gonna sit and be mindful when I feel like everything is urgent and nothing is getting done? Like, what do you what’s your response to that?

Liz Poggi 33:17
My response to that is, and because I have a lot of privilege. I don’t have kids. Like, I only have to take care of me and, like, take care of my dog is a lot, sure. So even then, especially with like, chronic illness, like, some days these things look different. Some days my M might be my movement might be two hours, and sometimes it might be two seconds, yeah, but it’s just that touch in of like, reminding yourself, like, I’m important, it’s like getting things done doesn’t, doesn’t determine my self worth, and if I’m not just checking in with me, yeah, then really nothing else matters that and like, I really wanted to get out of the productivity thing, and I’ve gone full circle back to like, the art of productivity is what I call it. Now. It’s like a plan. David Allen’s getting things done. Yeah, are like achieving the right things. So like all the essentialism and effortless, like all of that work like achieving the right things. Because often when people say they don’t have time, they’re just lying.

Kristen Carder 34:17
They don’t know they’re lying. Tell me, what do you mean?

Liz Poggi 34:21
Like they’re lying to themselves, yeah, because they think they don’t have a choice, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, and the truth is, like, you always have a choice, and I think it’s harder, yeah, for a lot of people, like, if you don’t have money, if you don’t have support, if your basic needs aren’t met, if I’m taking care of kids, like, yeah, what? It’s harder for people, but you still have a choice. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And once you recognize that, like, you shift out of like the world is happening to me, into like I am in charge of my own world, right? Like there’s this great big world around me, but like I can only control what’s right here. Yeah, and if I don’t control this, then all those other things I’m doing don’t really matter. So

Kristen Carder 35:04
that reminds me of what you said, where it’s like, we’re trying to self actualize and, like, get ourselves initiated on tasks that we don’t actually even care about, yeah, or that aren’t our tasks to begin with. Can you say more about that? Like, why is it important to know what tasks matter?

Liz Poggi 35:25
Yes, and that’s like, you know, my brain tangents, like, going back to, like, the Achieving the right things and love. And so I went back to productivity, because that’s what people want. People don’t want to learn how to love themselves. That’s not like, something we can say it feels really selfish. Yeah, I couldn’t even say it until like, three months ago. But like, people don’t want to, like, find help for their shame. They want to find help how to figure out how to get more done. Yep, 100% so. And there’s a coach I used to work with, K, high K, he who, who say, he would say, like, come for the productivity and stay for the existential Oh, I love that. And mine’s like, come for the productivity and stay for the self acceptance. Just get them in by helping, by telling them they’re going to be more productive. Yeah. And then I think the key is, really, is saying, like, when you rest, you are more productive 100% like, there are all of these laws. There’s the prior principle, right? 20% of what you do is responsible for 80% of the outcomes, right? There’s Parkinson’s Law. Like, things will expand to fit the amount of time you give them, right? There’s all of these things that we know are true. And so when I can, like, get people to understand that and reluctantly, like, rest and take care of themselves. It’s very reluctant at first, but they’re doing it because they think it’s going to make them more productive. Yeah, yeah. And then, like, it takes a while, and most people, like, that’s enough, yeah, they just learn to rest, and then they’re productive, and that’s great, yeah. And then the people go to the next level. It’s like, oh, wait, I can actually learn, like, I need to rest, not to be productive, but just to be I deserve

Kristen Carder 37:05
to rest. Yeah, because I’m a human, but like, I don’t start there because I know care. I totally agree. I think that it’s actually off putting to people, yeah, yes,

Liz Poggi 37:14
yes, especially being single with no kids who are like, great. You love yourself, right?

Kristen Carder 37:20
Easy for you? Yes, yay. I think that’s, it’s, it’s just so poignant to discuss all of this because you’re so right. Every ADHD or wants to be more productive, but they think that just getting themselves to do the thing and like I just got to do, I just got to do it, is the way. And then I always love to ask, like, so how’s that been working for you? Like, is it working? Because if it is, we probably wouldn’t be having this conversation, right? So how about we try something new, like not hating yourself or not doing things you don’t care about. So let’s talk about that, like not doing things that you don’t actually care about. How do you help clients? Or how have you helped yourself to pinpoint what actually matters to them and drop the things that are other people’s expectations? Because just before you go there, I think it’s so important to recognize that we can’t task, initiate and have self motivation for everything, right? And for everyone’s stuff and for everyone’s expectations. And that’s what a lot of us are trying to do. Yeah, so I want to have motivation to do something that I don’t actually care about. And it’s like, Wait, that doesn’t make any sense. Like, I don’t want to do it, but I want to feel motivated to do it. What? Like, it doesn’t make any sense. So how do you help people with that?

Liz Poggi 38:41
That’s such a good question, and I love your last question. That’s the one that’s kind of changed my life the most. Like, how’s that working for you? Right? Like, people come and they want you to, like, they think that you’re gonna tell them what to do, and it’s like, no, no, let’s just like, let you figure this out. Because, like, you know better than I do, but I think genuinely, people don’t take the time to slow down and even know, and especially like, for being a woman who was undiagnosed for so long, I thought I knew what my priorities were like, I thought I knew what was important to me, like, I’ve done all of that, but it, I didn’t, yeah, and so I think it’s it that’s a process, like, agreed, that’s like, you know, there’s the medication and we can give you, like, coaching tools and strategies and like scaffolding, but like getting to what I really, like, need and want and care about, like, I think you have to have, like, a deep one on one, yeah, relationship with someone to get to that point, to be honest. Yeah.

Kristen Carder 39:40
And I think that that is, like, the work of our lives. That’s not like, sign up for my six week program and like, I’ll help you know what your values are, and like, what you want out of your life. Like, this is, this is the work, yes, being human,

Liz Poggi 39:54
the work of being human. And I try to remind people, like, some people would go their entire life. Lives and never even know that this stuff exists. So, like, you’re, you’re, like, layering on the shame and like, mad at yourself that you can’t get it right. But like, most people aren’t even trying to do this. Like, give yourself some credit there. Yeah? And like, it’s only the work of your life if you want it to be yes. Like, you can stop at any point so true. It’s good. This is good enough, yeah? Like you get to decide that, yeah,

Kristen Carder 40:24
that’s so good. What do you think one of the biggest barriers is to having self motivation? Um, what do you see or like, task initiation? Like, what are the biggest barriers that we face. Yeah,

Liz Poggi 40:44
I think a lot of it is living in reaction mode. I think when you can intentionally plan things, you can use a lot of those productivity tools to, like, create routines and habits so you make things easier, so you don’t have to think about it, yeah. And everyone has a different level of structure, right? Some people want a lot, some people want none, but understanding your brain, like, how does my brain actually work, and kind of experimenting with it, like, did this work for me? Did that work for me? And putting in the time to figure that out? Yeah, and then it gets easier, but it’s, it’s it’s like, you have to acknowledge that this is a thing, and then you have to become aware of where it’s showing up and accept it, and then, like, try to figure it out. Because what works for me doesn’t work for everyone, yeah? And that’s the truth, yeah. And so it’s sort of like being okay with failure. You just have to, like, experiment. You have to be willing to try something, right? And say, like, oh, maybe I’m not. Maybe I’m gonna say no to this thing, and it’s gonna be miserable and horrible and like, I’m gonna have to, like, self soothe, or like, Yeah, talk to my coach about that, because it that’s a lot of people pleasing, right? But you have to, like, try it, because if you don’t try it, it’s just like, it’s just like, trash that’s in your brain, oof circling and like, you’re like, your brain can’t function. You can’t self motivate, you can’t do those things. If your brain is like, telling you, I’m overwhelmed, I can’t do this. I shouldn’t have said no. I shouldn’t have done like, when you when you don’t address what’s going on there, it makes it 10 times harder to do anything else. Yeah?

Kristen Carder 42:26
And I think that, like everyone listening is like, absolutely like, I I’m staring at the project, and I am overcome with shame, and I’m beating myself up, and I am not sure why I can’t do the project. And it’s like, well, it’s the shame, it’s the overwhelm, it’s the self blame, it’s the it’s so paralyzing to have an ADHD brain sometimes, to have that rumination constantly, to have the inner critic screaming at you, and then, and then we add on this layer of self punishing, of like, See, You’re just standing here, you’re not even doing it, you’re not even doing

Liz Poggi 43:04
the thing. Yeah, that’s it. And that’s really the key, I think, for anyone, is to not layer on Yes, more shame and more blame. Yeah? Because every time you tell yourself you should have done something or you should be doing something, you’re going to feel ashamed when you don’t do it, yeah, and like, that’s okay. Be okay with like, feeling guilty, or like you dropped the ball. But then when you, like, ruminate on that, and you make it into I didn’t do something wrong, but like, I’m a bad person, or like, this is something wrong with me, it makes it worse. And then your brain fills up quicker, for sure. And I think that’s like, for me, the people with AD, it’s like, I know what to do, and I’m just not doing it.

Kristen Carder 43:51
That’s it. That’s our slogan, yeah,

Liz Poggi 43:54
right there. And so, like, you know, there’s this, like, break it down into steps. Like, yeah, you know, when I first started, I used to, like, be like, find your computer, find your computer charger. Yes, plug in your computer and turn it on. Like, I had to break things down into really tiny steps, because otherwise I just didn’t know where to start or how to start. Like, yeah, you just put you tell yourself you have to, like, do something, and there’s no clear deliverable, yeah. How do you self motivate just because you don’t even know what you’re trying to do,

Kristen Carder 44:25
really, and then you yell at yourself for not knowing what to do, but you haven’t figured out what to do, yeah, right? Like, I should know what to do, why? And just, like, maybe just chill for a second,

Liz Poggi 44:35
yeah? And then you freeze. And then, like, Okay, we already have a diminished capacity, yeah, to control and regulate? Yes, so when you add that in, it’s taken it all up. That’s then you freeze. You’re like, Okay, well, I’m just gonna lay here on the couch for two days and not do anything, because I have completely exhausted every single ounce of energy in my body.

Kristen Carder 44:55
Let’s talk about that for a second. What? How do you think that emotional regulation? Plays into this

Liz Poggi 45:03
good question. I think it’s kind of at the core of everything. I think you can skip over it like I think people can skip over it if they don’t want to do the work, but if you can do the hard work of learning how to regulate your emotions, then the rest of it’s easy.

Kristen Carder 45:21
So tell me more. What do you mean by that?

Liz Poggi 45:26
It’s like, well, first of all, I was, I think I was, like, 36 until, like, before I realized that, like, I am in control of my emotions, that, like, you didn’t cause me to feel some way. Yeah. So that was the thing, like learning that, and then really learning that emotions aren’t bad, they’re good, they’re normal. Yeah, right? Like, we need to feel them, yeah? And when we do, it’s pretty quick and painless if you’re willing to

Kristen Carder 45:52
actually feel them, yes, right, and not just resist and push them down. Because

Liz Poggi 45:56
when you resist it and push it down, right, it’s like, you know, the shaking a soda bottle. Like, just push it down, and then it’s going to explode, yeah? Or you avoid it, right? And by avoiding the emotion, you avoid doing the thing that you want to do 100% like it doesn’t work. Like you have to be willing to feel the emotion if you want things to get easier, yeah? And like, knowing that things aren’t going to feel good. Like, making decisions sometimes, like I’m choosing between two things that suck, yeah,

Kristen Carder 46:25
yeah, yeah, but I’m going to allow myself to feel this discomfort and decide rather than not making a decision. Which is a decision made by defaults, right? And then you’re not in control of it anyway? Exactly.

Liz Poggi 46:41
Yeah, which, again, I think you taught me that when I was like, 37 like, oh, not making a decision is actually making a decision to stay stuck. Yes, 100% and then when you’re not moving forward on those things, of course, like, how are you gonna self motivate to do the day to day stuff you don’t wanna do? 100%

Kristen Carder 46:59
100% you said something earlier. You said resistance is kind of just always there, and I’ve accepted it, and I think that’s a testament to your ability to or to what you’ve learned about yourself, your emotions, and just like, oh, this is just a part of it, yeah. Like, the resistance is just there,

Liz Poggi 47:21
yeah, yeah, it’s, it’s so interesting, because it’s almost like, you know, people talk about how they think about ADHD and superpower, this, that the next thing. But I’m like, Okay, if it’s like, a disease, right? Like, I have migraines, I can take a medication for that, right? Right? So I’m like, I have ADHD, I have resistance, right? Yeah, the tool to get through that is to know I’m going to feel resistance, feel it, and be like, Okay, I don’t want to do this thing, but am I going to want to do it tomorrow? No. And, like, if I do it, is it going to make other things easier? Yes. Like, then, then, then it’s easier to be like, Okay, I’m going to do this thing. Yeah, and there’s like, a bunch of questions like that, I think, also help you figure out, is that your priority, or someone else is like, am I going to want to do this at any other point? A big one, right? Because we put it off, like, oh, tomorrow, well, because the timeline that helps,

Kristen Carder 48:17
totally, totally right? So am I? Am I going to want to do it at a later point?

Liz Poggi 48:22
Yeah? Like, is it, you know, you know, my favorite, is it moving me towards my goals, which, like, all right, you don’t have to go that far. But like, is it gonna make something else easier? Yeah, I love that. Like, if I do this now, will it make the morning easier? Like, am I taking care of future me or current me? Like, if I have no energy, I gotta take care of current me. But like, Am I just something like, resistant to it, and it’s actually going to be helpful to get it done. Yeah? Okay, do it. Let’s go do it, because then I can do something fun. Yes, I’d love it. And I’m just gonna sit here and ruminate about the fact that I didn’t do it and beat myself up for the fact that I didn’t do it when I could have just done it.

Kristen Carder 48:57
Yeah, I think another good question there is, like, Will I actually feel better if I don’t do it? Yeah? I like that. Well, I will it will actually feel better not to do it? Because a lot of times that answer is, no, it doesn’t actually feel better to not do

Liz Poggi 49:12
it. Right, right? Yeah, and that’s, I think that’s the same thing with emotional regulation. It’s like task initiation, doing that thing, it almost feels worse to not do it. Yeah, emotions are the same way. Like, if you don’t process them, they actually feel worse. Like, you’re gonna feel bad either way, right? Like, so do the thing that you actually intended on doing.

Kristen Carder 49:37
Like, what a perfect note to end on. You’re gonna feel bad either way. Let’s just do the thing that we intended to do in the first place. Let’s just do the thing that moves the needle forward. Let’s just do the thing that moves us toward our goal, or that makes our life easier, or whatever you fill in the blank. I absolutely love that this has been a dream. I. Have loved every second of it. I’m curious. Liz, what like encouragement would you like to leave with our listeners, with anybody who’s just like, tasking this agent is so hard for me and like, I suck at all of this. Like, what encouragement Do you want to give to your fellow ADHD ers who just really could use a little pep talk. Such a good question.

Liz Poggi 50:23
First, you’re not alone. You’re in good company, right? Kristen Carter feels this too 100% right? And there are so many free resources. Like, you don’t have to join a community, you don’t have to get a coach, like just listening to a podcast, can help and serve as like a body double to help you get that thing done. So good. So like, half the time I don’t want to do something, I just put on the podcast, and it just helps me get through it, because I just feel less alone and less broken.

Kristen Carder 50:52
So good. Oh, it’s such good advice. How can people find you, if they’re like listening to your new and they’re really inspired by what you say. How can people get in touch with you?

Liz Poggi 51:03
My it’s pretty easy. It’s my name, Liz Poggi. P, O, G, G, I. So lizpoggi.com, or Liz Poggi is my instagram handle, and yeah, it takes me a while to respond sometimes, because it’s like, I have ADHD or something, but the girl has ADHD, okay, but yeah, pretty easy to find me. That’s great.

Kristen Carder 51:22
We’ll link it in the show notes. Thank you for being here. I adore you. You so glad that you were here.

Liz Poggi 51:26
I’m still it’s surreal. It still feels like a dream. That’s so fun. Thank you so much.