Podcast Episode #17: The Mindset of Organization with Laura Brooke, Professional Organizer

Kristen Carder 0:00
Foreign Hey, what’s up, my friend, you are listening to the I have ADHD Podcast, episode number 17. I am so glad that you decided to tune in today. I am medicated, I am caffeinated, and I am ready to roll my name is Kristen Carter and I am your host, and for the first time ever, I’m welcoming a guest to the podcast. I cannot wait to introduce you to my new friend, Laura Brooke. She is a professional organizer, and she has ADHD. And if that combination does not blow your mind, I do not know what will our conversation was so wonderful. It was jam packed with value. I am super stoked to share it with you today. I want to let you know that this conversation is going to be a two part series, this first episode that you are listening to right now, Laura talks all about mindset, the mindset of being an organized person, what it will take to change your thoughts so that you can live out the result of being an organized person. Now you know, if you’ve been listening for any amount of time, that I love to start with the thoughts, because I believe, with all of my heart that our thoughts create our feelings, our feelings create our actions, and our actions create our results. So if we want to have different results, we have to begin with our thoughts. We have to observe our thoughts. We have to be willing to be wrong and change the way we are currently thinking if we want to produce a different result. This episode, Laura becomes really vulnerable with her ADHD story. She completely sets up a new thought pattern for all of us living with ADHD and struggling to organize, and she just says everything in such an empathetic and relatable way. I think you are going to love her. And I want to let you know that next week’s episode is going to be extremely practical, and Laura is going to break down very, very practical tips of how to step by step become an organized person, but we all know that organization is going to start with our mindset, our thoughts create our feelings, our feelings create our actions, our actions create our results. And so if we want different results in the area of organization, we have to change our mindset. And so this episode is all about our mindset centered around organization. I hope you love it and listen. If you haven’t subscribed to this podcast, do it now so that next week, when Episode Two is available to you, it’s going to show up right in your podcast feed and you will be ready to roll it’ll be right there for you. So please make sure to subscribe. And now here’s my conversation with Laura Brooke, I hope you love every single second of it. All right, Laura, hi. How are you?

Laura Brook 3:15
I’m good. How are you?

Kristen Carder 3:15
I am so excited to be doing my first interview. I am so glad it’s with you.

Laura Brook 3:23
Oh, thanks so much for having me. You’re welcome. This

Kristen Carder 3:26
is so exciting. So I have so many questions for you, but first I thought it would be really good to start off with just knowing your story. So can you tell us a little bit about your ADHD story and your journey and kind of, you know where you are right now with it all,

Laura Brook 3:44
sure. So my, my story is really, really long, so I’m going to give you a short version, but it might still be long. So cut me off if I’m trailing or anything. No problem. My, my ADHD story is so typical of, I think the general view of girls with ADHD. So my earliest memories are of being confused why I don’t easily relate to other kids my age or fit in well, and knowing I was different, but not knowing why, and not understanding what that meant for me. And I remember at a really young age, just thinking, is my life always going to be like this? And now I’m in my 30s, and yeah, it’s still like that for the most part. But I mean, I was the the class clown, and on a superficial level, I had a lot of friends, but I also had a hard time being close with anybody, and then also as I kind of grew up, and I mean, that’s the social aspect that I really started, of just remembering, of just feeling different as a kid, but also I always felt pretty confident, but then I also, at the same time, felt a. Self conscious, and I think a lot of that had to do with the countless times I was told things like, just try harder. And why did you fail that test you knew all of this, or why can’t you just be quiet or sit still or do better or be normal? I mean, I heard all of that so much growing up. I was definitely hyperactive, but I had, I’m definitely combination type. I was very hyper as a kid, but also inattentive and kind of in the clouds. And like most parents, mine, weren’t really concerned with my struggling in a lot of areas until my grades dropped. So starting around fourth grade, is when I think my parents started to realize, oh, there’s kind of something going on here, and they didn’t really know what, but my grades continued to slowly decline until about seventh grade, when I was doing really bad in school. So that’s when my parents took action, and they took me to a psychiatrist, where I was told that I was the poster child of ADHD. I know, and I remember thinking, I don’t really know what that means, but I don’t like it, because I was like 13. This was like 1997 and and that was about it. That’s what I was told. I was not given any type of education. I didn’t even know. I mean, we went down the list of symptoms, but I’m 13, and then I hear ADHD. I mean, I don’t even know if I knew what that was before that, I really don’t remember, but I definitely feel like I’m just now kind of grasping ADHD over half my life later, but at the time, I was given Adderall, and it was amazing. All of a sudden I could focus and I could apply myself in my head. It really was a magic pill. I could, all of a sudden, just push through certain situations. Like, for instance, I did a lot of sports, and I did field hockey, where you typically on my team had to run three miles before practice even started every day. And that was torture, like I was, like, the worst thing in the world, and I would also walk, and then all of a sudden, I’m on Adderall, and I found myself, Wow, I can, I can run. I can just, like, calm down and focus and run. You know, I was all of a sudden, you know, studying and applying everything, and instant honor roll. Like it was crazy. It was like night and day, my next report card, I was, you know, and all of a sudden I was starting to get confidence back and all of that. But basically without the true knowledge of what ADHD was and how it affected me. And of course, I you’re kind of probably realizing that I didn’t do any type of therapy. They just, you know, threw stimulants in my face. Of course, what happened was, without the knowledge of ADHD, and also this idea that I had a magic pill and all my struggles were over, I found that my struggles were most definitely not over. And I around 17, I would say, as I started to grow up and make friends and kind of come into my own, I gave into stigma that that I started experiencing, you know, I made friends that I guess I didn’t realize. You know, before you deal with stigma, you don’t even know it’s coming like, that’s one thing that I think people don’t prepare their children for at all, and I’m not. I don’t really know how to suggest you do that, but I, in no way, was prepared, as most people are, that first time someone was like, Adderall. You know. Do you know that’s like methamphetamine, and you know all of that stigma that you’re told? And I was like, Holy crap, I’ve never even thought about it, which is also typical of ADHD. You’re just like, Yeah, I’m taking a stimulant, whatever. And I never thought about it. Was on it for years, and then they made it sound so dirty and evil, and that was the first time I really felt shame. I went to a private school, so I didn’t really experience stigma there. I mean, they didn’t even know I was on anything. All of a sudden, they just saw an improvement and were happy. But stigma, yeah, was it was from peers first, and then I felt like I was constantly running from that. And as also typical with ADHD, I just ran away from it completely. I was like, No, you know, I don’t want to live like this. I I had this idea that I was going to. To do, you know, show everyone I was gonna I was gonna be good on my own. I didn’t need stimulants. I was gonna conquer ADHD. And I do think that that’s a possibility, but not running away from it. So that’s what I did. And then started my rough years, or my 20s, I would say the 20s were significantly harder for me, even harder than the last couple years of high school. And you know, when I was 17, when I say I got off of my stimulant medication, that’s something that I told my parents, and, you know, them not having the education either because it was not pre internet in the world, but pre Internet where it was, like in everybody’s house. So they, once I got that diagnosis, they still didn’t like, run out and educate themselves either. And so they were like, okay, you know, if you I think it’s long enough to where I forgot the struggles I had before. And I think they did too. I think they forgot how annoying I was, or their perception of my symptoms being annoying. And you know, the second the Adderall is out on my system, my life went so downhill. I mean, no more honor roll. I barely graduated high school, and when I say that I did ninth and 10th grade was all honor roll, and I did so bad 11th and 12th grade, I barely graduated, like, by the skin of my teeth. And still, like in hindsight, you’re like, Well, duh, why don’t you just go back on Adderall? And still, I did not associate that with with, you know, my bad choices, for some reason, I decided to continue struggling, because I didn’t want to deal with my own reality. I wanted to run away from it. And the truth was that second at 17 that I was feeling that stigma, and was like, You know what, I’m just going to go off of it. It was probably a time when I should have gone back to the psychiatrist, or just someone to get help and even up my dose, because it hadn’t been it was the same for a couple years, you know, things like that and and I think whenever, you know, my one suggestion here real quick is when you’re like, getting that leading feeling of like, I’m unhappy and I’m just going to run away from it, don’t, you know, even if you don’t deal with it head on, just go back to somebody, a doctor or somebody and and figure out what’s really going on. Because, you know, you have to keep that in check. But anyway, my 20s, as I said, were crazy. By 25 I found out I was pregnant. I wasn’t even with my son’s father at the time, it was like this impulsive, horrible situation time that I felt like I wasn’t going to overcome. And I, you know, stuck with it and made a series of also bad decisions from there. But I, once I had my son, I would say that was a big turning point. I was overcome with, you know what? I’ve wasted these first five years of my 20s, but I’m really going to turn it around. And it was like my second push, still not fully embracing my situation, but I did have, you know, almost like an enlightening experience of wanting to be the best for your child, which I think is a normal thing, but I still was not dealing with my real issues. So 30, let’s fast forward five years. I found myself

Laura Brook 13:37
divorced and with a new soon to be husband and pregnant again, and still no college education, you know, nothing to really show for. And I was so depressed. And I don’t think it was from depression, it was from just this feeling of like, what am I doing? Like, my whole 20s are wasted. You know, I never would have thought. I would have struggled turning 30, but I think because I was running away from my reality for so long, I just, you know, was so depressed, but it really was just this fear of dealing with my reality. So now add two more kids to that by three total, and I’m forced. I’m now forced. I’m rock bottom. I’m basically a stay at home mom with three kids. I hate being a stay at home mom. I’m struggling. I can’t even upkeep the house. I am losing my mind. I feel like I can’t take care of myself. How am I going to take care of three kids, I’m at rock bottom, and that was my moment. Okay, I need help. I’m not doing anything good, like in my 20s, you know, I had some free time. I could do a couple things good and kind of be like, I’m okay, I’m okay. Well, that was three kids. I had no no time. I wasn’t even doing anything. I was I felt like I was failing at everything. So I hit rock bottom. Um, I told my husband I was like, he knew I had ADHD, but I don’t think he realized how hard it was for me, because I never shared that with him. I was still running, so I faced a head on. I told him I was like, I have to, I have to go back to a psychiatrist. I can’t do this anymore. You know, I remember. I remember that first time I took Adderall when I was 13, and it was like, wow, this is, this is also so much easier, like I wasn’t struggling. And I told him, I just don’t want to struggle anymore. And I went back, and once again, everything turned around, but this time, I did it with a whole treatment like I got educated on ADHD. I was in therapy for a long time. I’m still in ongoing therapy. It’s just not quite as often. And you know, I found my treatment balance as I say. And I can’t tell you how different my life is now, just just from that moment of admitting, okay, I’m going to accept my reality, I’m going to take responsibility, I’m going to admit that I need help, which is the hardest part of all of that, and and, you know, I’m going to learn about stigma. I’m going to learn how to combat it, not only with myself, with with family members, friends, anyone, and I’m gonna, I’m gonna really overcome this and and that alone, just learning how to deal with ADHD properly for myself has given me so much confidence to deal with other areas of my life. Because it’s like, wow, okay, now I’m really overcoming it. I’m managing my symptoms. I’m in treatment. I’m I feel like I can function, you know, the the suffering that people go through, and anyone listening may be going through, you know, if you can just face it and get the help and the treatment you need, whatever that may be. And it’s often trial and error, you know, just do it. So that is my story. And now I’m a business owner. I am still with three kids, and that’s it for me, but I am managing my household. I am not perfect by any means. I still my son’s in third grade, and, you know, there’s still many times the teacher is like, Oh, well, you forgot. The teacher comes to me, Oh, you forgot to so I’m still going through stuff like that, but for the most part, I am managing symptoms, and I can kind of laugh that stuff off, and a lot of that comes with education, but that is my story

Kristen Carder 17:38
that is such a compelling story, and I feel like you are speaking for all of us. Like that felt so close to home. For me, I just loved it. Thank you so much.

Laura Brook 17:55
Thank you. I think we all can go through so many similar things, and it looks different, it feels different, but it’s, it’s such a I mean, everyone I’ve talked to, you know, it’s so similar, and especially with women, I think it’s a little harder for us with the pressure and the judgment and the stigma. I think we not that men don’t feel that. Of course they do, but I think women have this weird feeling of having to be perfect, and when you when you have ADHD, that hurts you so much harder than the average woman, which is already hurting women, but it’s tough. It’s really tough.

Kristen Carder 18:29
Yeah, yeah, that’s so true. I think you know your thought about just really accepting it. I think that when I meet people who you know, you can see from the outside that they’re struggling so much, but they’re really resisting that acceptance piece. I think that’s key for all of us, and it hits us at different times, and a lot of times we do have to totally hit that rock bottom, which is so hard, but like, we’re really just not fast learners. Like, let’s just be honest, right? Like, we have

Laura Brook 19:04
no not the head of age right now is 26 though, and I feel it like I’m 34 but I’m kind of really 26 and once I can admit that, yeah, it helps a lot. It helps. It helps just being realistic you, you relieve so much of that pressure off of yourself, absolutely.

Kristen Carder 19:23
I just saw a post about that that’s so interesting. So I think what you’re referring to is, at least, I know Dr Barkley talks about how we’re all about 30, 30% behind right age wise. Yeah, yeah. And so I definitely am, or why, and I feel the same way. So I’m 30 I’m going to be 38 soon, and I feel like I’m just now, like, developmentally around like 30 I really do. I just feel like I’m kind of landing, kind of knowing what I want to do with my life, kind of like feeling comfortable in my own skin and right that’s like

Laura Brook 19:57
that we feel that. That everyone’s like, what are you gonna do with your life at, you know, 18 now, I mean, that’s even harder for us too, right? Because, I mean, yeah, I’m kind of living what I wanted. And the other day, my husband was like, you know, you’re you’re living your dream, you know, you’re doing all this stuff. And then I’m like, Oh, wow, I just realized that. Thanks, thanks for talking. It’s something that I never even you know, sometimes you just need someone to tell you something, and you to realize it and just and soak that in, because we just can’t always do that ourselves, can we? No,

Kristen Carder 20:34
no, the self reflection piece is so hard, which is why having a really great partner or a really good friend who is like, who you allow to speak into your life, or a therapist or a coach you know like somebody needs to be speaking into your life, so that, like somebody you trust, so that you can really, definitely get help with that observation piece, which is really

Laura Brook 20:56
hard to find, too, I want to point out, and it Took me 30 years to find my support system, my my correct support system. So, yes, don’t be discouraged. Yeah, you will find it, and it takes a long time, and it’s really hard, but just don’t give up, because if you’re putting yourself out there, you’re going to find it, but if you’re completely closed up, you can guarantee you’re never going to find your support system that has to put yourself out there. Yeah, whoo.

Kristen Carder 21:23
Laura’s preaching. I love it. Okay, Laura, how? How in the world does an 80 person get into the professional organizing business? This is blowing my mind. I think all of us are really confused. So you need to, you need to tell us how, how?

Laura Brook 21:44
Oh, no, I knew this question was coming. And I call this the age old question, because I get it all the time, yeah. And so when I first started my professional organizing business, I hid the fact that I had ADHD, because I was still kind of coming into my own. Of course, there’s the fear of just starting a business is scary enough. And on top of that, you know, being a little ashamed of a certain side of you, of course, your inclination is to hide it. And I don’t want people to think I’m a fraud, because when you look up ADHD, like these symptoms, like the official symptoms is disorganized, so I thought it would discredit me in some way, so I was really scared to open up about it. And I assume people thought I would suck if they’re like, Oh, you have ADHD, I’m not hiring you. Are you crazy? But I want to break down a few myths and stereotypes right now. So ADHD looks so different to all of us. So everyone we’re still individuals. It’s really hard to get that like, I think sometimes when you first are educated on ADHD, and you relate so much to it, you start to be like, I’m exactly like everybody else, and you lose a little identity, but I want to break down that. And you know, executive function is is the real challenge that we all face, but that looks so different in all of us. So if you still love something, even if it’s like engineering or coding or something, that’s extremely boring to me, like I could never sit and create code for programs all day. And there’s people with ADHD that do that and are amazing at it, and I do not know how they do it. Well, organizing is no different, so I it’s something that I wouldn’t say. It’s the actual organization that is my true passion, even though I love the end result, and I get a dopamine hit from that end result of turning a mess into a beautiful space. But it’s the efficiency that I’m passionate about. It’s the problem solving, it’s the getting shit done that I love so much about it, and I, for some reason, have the gift of efficiency. I’m that woman that’s like, carrying all the grocery bags in in one trip. That’s who I am. Like, I want to get it done the best way possible the first time. So and I also have a mathematical brain, so I can go into someone’s house and learn a little about them and pick up on little thing, and I can’t explain how I do I wish I could write a book. I really and explain this, but I don’t think I can. But I can just kind of see, or know some sort of perception of what’s going to help them and what’s going to get them there the quickest amount of time. And I can’t really explain how I can do that, but that’s my gift, and that’s what I enjoy. So while you may hate organization in general, and think, like, oh, how can anyone do this? And honestly, I get it all the time for my clients, like, how do you do this for a living? And from, you know, I don’t want to say normal, but from people who aren’t ADHD, you know, that’s a common question, so it’s something. Something that people of all backgrounds struggle with, depending on their situation. And I don’t know it’s what I love, and I really enjoy it, and I’m good at it, and I went for it and on that. I want to say that the moment when I decided I told you 2019 was all about putting myself out there. So one of those, you know, is my list of criteria for that. It was letting the world know that I had ADHD, talking about it with my clients. You know, sharing, like putting it on my Instagram and sharing more and creating awareness around it. And I got to that because I had recently, right? I would say December, like November, December. I talked to two different women that were personal clients of mine, that were sharing things, and it just sounded so much like ADHD, and I didn’t want to diagnose them, of course, you know, because I’m not a doctor, but I did was share with them. I just opened up and I was like, you know, I have ADHD, and I really think you should just talk to even if it’s just your, you know, regular doctor, or whoever you go to for checkups and just mention what you’re going through, or even find a psychiatrist or a therapist or somebody, because it sounds so much like my struggle over the years, And I shared that I was diagnosed with ADHD. I shared that I was medicated, and both of these women were not treated, and both of them had the story of my 20s, where I was just like, They’re a mess, and they just, you know, they feel like they might have ADHD, but you know, their husband says, you know, you know, I’m disorganized sometimes, and it’s hard for me to focus sometimes. You know, the age old story of like, Oh yeah, you can’t focus. I can’t either sometimes. And you know, like that stigma that we’re told and I was like, wow, you know, if I opened up and just threw this out there, I wonder how many people it would help in the disorganization capacity, like just having being able to share. And the second I did it, I mean, it was scary, but my I would say everything improved in my business honestly, like just being open and honest, wow. And you know, this is an industry where I’m going into people’s homes and working with them, and I think it’s actually worked to buy my benefit. And I didn’t know that was going to happen ahead of time. I really put myself. It was maybe a little bit of an impulse not thinking it through, but I that is shut down, luckily, I know and and what I feel has happened is that when people see that I’m someone who hasn’t always been perfect, and I took away that layer of, oh, she’s a professional organizer, her house is always perfect, and she has it all figured out. When I took that away, people felt so much more comfortable to hire me, because they’re like, Okay, she’s going to come in here. She’s going to understand like, I just created a more understanding environment. So in the end, you know, I created more understanding for ADHD, but also was just honest and genuine, and I felt so much better about myself. I felt so good that people are still hiring me, and they know I have ADHD like that was a huge confidence first that I that I needed. And I’m not telling everyone to go tell their employer that they have ADHD, by the way, I just want to do a disclaimer. I don’t want to hurt anyone here. But if the time is right and you have that feeling that it’s right and that and that you believe you’ll be supported. I definitely encourage it for sure.

Kristen Carder 28:44
Yeah, that’s such a personal thing, but it is so interesting, because humans connect through shared weaknesses. I think a lot we do and yeah, I think we walk around trying to pretend that like we’re perfect, and we then, like, assume other people are perfect. It’s just like the facades when they come down. Connecting with people on such a human level, it opens up this layer that is so much more authentic. It’s so much better,

Laura Brook 29:20
totally. And I agree, and my personal relationships with my clients have been so much more rewarding since I’ve opened up. They open up to me more. We share more, and it’s more enjoyable the time passes quicker. I mean, that’s another thing. And you know, when you’re just kind of working and talking together, it just creates such a better experience. But on top of that, I think that I’m trying to change a lot about that the industry of professional organizing as well, because, like you said, this, this idea that we have to be perfect and social media is not helping that. And agreed, yeah, and. It’s the same in the professional organizing world, where we’re doing before and afters, and we’re creating this picture that everything’s perfect. And also people hire a professional organizer, thinking we’re going to wave this magic wand and oh my god, I’m going to get organized, right? I I create that little dose of like, you know what? I’m not coming in here, so that you can be perfect all of a sudden, because that is not going to happen, right? But I’m really just sharing my struggle that I’ve gone through with ADHD myself. I mean, I used to have this idea that I had to be perfect and or something. I mean, I listened to your podcast, by the way, and I remember when you said, and I related to this so much that if, if you can’t do the whole thing, it’s not even worth starting. Yes, so my past and I not start growing until I started biting smaller chunks and not worrying about, like, just go for like, Just do it. And I was so there. But it’s the same thing in my field and with getting organized. I mean, it’s so important to, like, for instance, if you have a giant, messy, cluttered room, of course, you’re not going to be able to do that in one day. So if you can’t do it all at once, you’re going to be, if you have ADHD, you might be inclined completely avoid it, because you can’t even wrap your head around those smaller chunks. But yes, you know it’s gross. It’s taking getting out of your head space is the hardest thing for us to do, I think. But it’s the most rewarding thing we can do, and it starts translating to so many different areas for sure.

Kristen Carder 31:35
Hey, it’s Kristen, and I’m just popping in here to say you’ve made it halfway through this episode, do not turn it off. Now Laura continues to blow my mind to this whole entire episode, so I hope you are enjoying every single second of it. And I also wanted to let you know that Laura was so kind, she made a printable download for you, if you would like to think through and work through your mindset. When it comes to organization, you can go to I have adhd.com/organization, and you can download her guide to changing your mindset. She keeps it simple. She keeps it short. It’s going to be one page. It is not a big deal. You can totally do this. Resist the feeling of overwhelm. It is a choice, and you do not have to choose overwhelm. My friend, you really don’t. Okay. You can go to I have adhd.com/organization, to get that download from Laura. Here is the rest of our conversation. I hear a lot from people my experience with ADHD ers, and I know this is such a generalization, but my experience with ADHD ers is we’re usually either really focused on organizing because we found that it helps us to just be sane, you know. Or we kind of are like a total mess, and we just say, like, you know, I’m disorganized, but my mess doesn’t bother me. My house is messy, but it’s fine, you know? Like, I don’t need to be organized. So what do you say to someone who might feel like organizing is not for me, I don’t actually need it. What do you feel like? Is like a how do you sell somebody on that, you know? Yeah,

Laura Brook 33:38
I would say first and foremost, that there’s a large chance that that’s bullshit, that you do not need organization. And I say that because I think that you know everyone needs to understand that organization looks different person to person. So the point is, is that if you feel disorganized, then you are and if, if someone genuinely is organized and it looks messy to someone else, that doesn’t mean that they’re actually messy. I mean, it’s, it’s, we’re talking about perceptions versus realities, right? So if someone thinks that they’re organized, I would say, Do you know where everything is? And if they know where every single thing is, then I would 100% agree with them, even if it looks like a mess, which chances are, they might be, you know, maybe sibbing A little bit, but, yeah, but in general, or the definition, to me as a professional organizer, is being organized is everything that you own, having a place or a home where it lives, everyone, knowing where that place is, and being able to, you know, create. And routines around that to keep it up. I mean, that’s what organization is, and that is going to look different for every person, depending on their personality, lifestyle, their routines, their habits. You know, what kind of job they have, everything Do you have kids? I mean, someone who has kids, their house is going to look a lot different totally. And it might look messy, but it still may be organized depending on the situation. So what I have to say, if you say there’s no hope for you for organizing, you say, Oh, I’ve tried everything you know. Or you might be saying, Oh, well, I’ve got it all together. It looks messy to you, but it’s organized to me. I would say in most cases, that’s probably not true. It might be a little bit of you avoiding the organization. It’s a lot easier to say, Oh, I’m organized. You know, it’s a lot easier to say that then then admit that you’re disorganized, and then have to deal with it. So it could be an excuse. But I do think that the most important thing is to know where everything is, because that’s what organization really is. It’s not how it looks, necessarily. I don’t want to, you know, we’re, this is an HDTV so we drive real. Your house might look messy to you know someone someone else. But I also want to point out too, I don’t want to go too, too far into mental health or anything like that, but people who are diagnosed with hoarding disorder also believe that they know where everything is and that everything is where it should be. So I think when it comes to mental health too, if you feel like you’re organized, but you are losing things a lot and not really wanting to, you know, own up to that. I think it’s time to bring that up to a therapist or or even an ADHD coach or a professional organizer, you know, depending on what you’re comfortable with, because if you lose things a lot, which we do. I mean, I have lost my phone yesterday. I mean, I pretend like I have my life together. I still have ADHD, right? So I still do things. My phone normally has a home when I’m home, but it disappeared, and I still haven’t found it, and I have to go out and buy another phone today. You know, ADHD is expensive, but the point is, is that if you are constantly losing things, and by the way, I want to mention, I’m 30 something, and it’s the first time I’ve ever lost a phone. So I really celebrate that, yes, so I’m going to celebrate that, and I’m going to turn it positive, even though I’m so frustrated and really angry, so turning that, I’m flipping that script. But time, yeah, that could be due to my phone addiction.

Kristen Carder 37:46
Yeah, that’s true,

Laura Brook 37:47
yeah, okay. Beyond that, you know, everything needs to have a place that, if you’re losing things all the time, you you know, have just the the feelings that come with being disorganized, and you’re telling people that you know where everything is, you know, it’s time to get help, I think, to try to get organized. Yeah, I

Kristen Carder 38:06
think that is such a good point, because I love how you’re saying that it’s gonna look different for everyone. So you’re not setting the standard of like your house has to look a certain way in order for you to thrive. It’s more about, Are you frustrated like, are do you feel like you know where things are? If I were to say, you know, hey, let’s go get some coffee, would you be able to find your keys and your purse and your phone in, you know, 30 seconds?

Laura Brook 38:37
Right? Right? I want to dispel that myth that organized organization looks a certain way. I mean interest, I think, is a huge discouragement to people who struggle with organization because and HGTV and all of these, these things, these visual things that we see without us really thinking about it, we we start to get this picture of what things should look like, and we do that with every era area of our life, but we do it with our home. There’s people who I see getting giant home renovations, and their house was fine before that. But why do they do that? Is it because they have this idea of what their home should look like, or is it because they’re going to function better they feel like that it’s going to improve their mental health. Do they feel like it’s going to improve, you know, a big area of their life, or is it just because they think they should? And an organization is the same way, because, you know, there’s Container Store and there’s IKEA, and there’s target, and they all have tons of amazing organizing items. And you can go out and you can buy you can spend $2,000 on beautiful organizing items, and they are not going to help you be organized. That is not what organization is. And I don’t want anyone to think that for one you don’t have to spend money on plastic that is. Even going to help you, right? And it’s all about, do you know where your things are, and are you able to keep up that routine? And I will say it’s so much easier for people with ADHD to go out and just buy a couple things, because buying kind of feels good. And then on top of that, you’re like, Yeah, I’m doing something yes and but you’re not, unfortunately, in this case, you’re not, because it just adds to the chaos. If you already have too many things and you don’t know where everything is throwing a bunch of things, and a big thing that you bought is not going to help you. It’s not, I know, yeah. And

Kristen Carder 40:37
then you’re just adding more stuff, right? You’re adding more

Laura Brook 40:41
stuff to the space in the name of organization, and you’re actually hurting yourself. Yeah. Oh,

Kristen Carder 40:47
that is so good. So what would you say is, like, where would someone start, if they feel like a space is hopeless, or if they feel like it’s too much to conquer, or if they feel like I shouldn’t even bother because it’s just like too overwhelming, where do you even start with someone actually, I know because I had the privilege of working with you, and it was the most fun thing in the whole world. I am serious. It was so much fun. I had a blast too. It was, it was a lot of fun. Oh my gosh. And what was so great about working with you, and I just want to say, if anybody out there is considering hiring, well, of course, Laura, but you know, in your area a professional organizer, what I absolutely loved is that you came in with a plan and my mess, even though it was overwhelming to me, and that closet of shame has been like this perpetual kind of like storm cloud over my life, you came in and it wasn’t overwhelming to you at all. It was like, Whatever, let’s just do it. And I was like, Are you serious? I don’t think I can. Like you were so cheery. You were cheery about it. So other than hiring a professional organizer, what can someone do when they look at a room and they’re like, I don’t even know what to do. I don’t even know where to start. So obviously, it’s not, yeah, and buy stuff. So what is it?

Laura Brook 42:12
So it’s this is where it gets tricky. So another thing people need to understand is that organization is a skill that you can learn, but there are a lot of people that are born with that skill. So it can be a talent, but it is something that you can get better at. But like anything else, it takes time, it takes practice, and it takes a lot of trial and error to figure out what’s going to work for you. So when you have ADHD, that makes it feel impossible, because we don’t want anything to take any time, and we also have a hard time seeing the big picture. And if you feel like trial and error is going to happen, you might not want to even try it, because you’re like, I don’t want any failure right now. I just want to be perfect right away. Like, why can’t I just learn it right away? But honestly, that is what it takes. So if you’re naturally disorganized, or you’re going through something crazy in your life and your home is a mess, it’s going to take time to figure out what is going to work for you. And what that takes, basically, is you, you know, like I said, on my own story, I mean, me going through all of the negative sides of ADHD has helped me so much for what I do now, because I see now what it takes to kind of overcome these small challenges that seem so big, but, you know, getting organized, and I want to come here today and tell All of your listeners that if it feels impossible, it’s not. It just takes figuring out how to do it the best way for you, and it has to feel easy, but it can be done. It’s not going to feel easy at first, but eventually, when you find your flow and what works for you, then it becomes something that is not so challenging. You just have to get over that hump. It’s really hard at first, and it’s always hard for us, right? I don’t know if you can relate to this, but taking that first step is so hard for me, and I don’t know if you’re that way. Yeah, it’s the hardest part. And for anyone who’s disorganized, especially if you have ADHD, that’s the hardest part, and that’s where a professional organizer can really benefit you, or even an ADHD coach, you know, just kind of getting helping you, giving you the support you need to kind of take that first step, that’s the biggest part, but also continuing it and keeping it up. So yeah, if you have ADHD, I always recommend to all of my clients, if you want to get organized, you have to know who you are. You have to you have to understand who you are. But on the reverse side of that, you have to also understand what you really want, and I don’t mean what you want your space to look like. You have to understand your goal like you. Can’t. So with ADHD, you’re like, oh, I want my space organized, right? And then you just go start fiddling with your stuff, no thought process, right? The worst thing you can do with organization, because then it really is just wasted time. Because, you know, as I said, my passion is efficiency and productivity. So if you just start fiddling with your stuff and moving it around, that’s all it’s going to feel like you’re doing, and then you’re going to get really discouraged. So the biggest thing is start in your head, because that’s where change comes from. Anyway, if you want to get organized, you want to not mess with your stuff. Yet, you want to get a clear picture of where you are and where you want to be, and make sure that’s a healthy picture too. Make sure it’s in reality. So your end goal, you can, of course, have pictures for inspiration, and I know that works for a lot of people. If you’re a visual person, that works for you, but I don’t want you to go look for pictures and try to create that life for you, because chances are, if you find it on Pinterest or you see something beautiful shared on Facebook or Instagram, that’s most likely not going to work for you, and it might work for somebody else. You know, the the not living in reality thing is so easy for us, and I find myself doing it all the time, and I’m lucky to have a husband who’s like, uh, yeah, that’s not going to happen. He’s very honest with with me, and I encourage you to embrace that feedback and share, you know, share your goals with people and see what they say, and, of course, filter out any negativity. But at the same time, you need to find that healthy, healthy balance of reality and so create the mindset that getting organized is a goal that you need to accomplish, and think about it more methodically, instead of just like, oh, this room is a mess. I need to, you know, go in there and settle with it and just move my stuff around. Well, if you have ADHD, there’s a big chance that you have impulsive buying issues, which makes it almost impossible to be organized. And I’ll tell you why. If you have too much stuff in your home, which pretty much every American does, but if you have ADHD, you probably have a million little crappy things that you can throw away right now that you got for it’s only $2 in the checkout line, you know, that kind of stuff. Or you go to the dollar store and you’re like, This is crap, but it’s $1 so I’m going to bring it home. And you know, we make those impulsive things, and that was really hard for me to get over, but I did eventually by focusing on routines and habits and not going to stores that are tempting me anymore. For instance, I know multiple people who don’t go to Target anymore because they are masters of the checkout line and grabbing you and getting you to want everything in their store, I mean, there’s tons of memes about it, so that’s where knowing yourself comes in, because you can’t fix your problems without really knowing who you are, and then having a realistic picture of where you want to be. So that’s really my goal. When I come work with people, and I do work with people virtually as well, more in a coaching capacity. So if you’re extremely disorganized, yeah, I do that if you’re extremely disorganized, and you have been disorganized as long as you can remember, the virtual capacity, or what I call DIY, probably isn’t a good candidate for you, and I want to throw that out there right away. But if you’re, if you’re someone who feels like, okay, I can, I can do the work on my own. I just need help with my planning and someone to kind of hold me accountable. Then I do that virtually as well, but in person, it’s really the same thing, except I’m there, as you know, I’m there, helping you every step of the way and providing that encouragement and support. And it’s something I enjoy, so I find it fun. I know you probably all think I’m

Kristen Carder 48:55
crazy, but the weirdest person I’ve ever met I know.

Laura Brook 48:59
But you know what? I think if I explain it, like, okay, I get my dopamine hit when we have a giant mess, and then when I leave, it’s like, almost done. And like, wow, it looks so much better. And like, you’re happy, you know, that makes me happy. And I just it’s so rewarding.

Kristen Carder 49:14
Oh, I love it. I love it. And I love how you’re saying that it all has to start with the mind, because we can clean a room, like we could clean a room, or somebody could hire you to come in and clean a room. But that doesn’t mean that two weeks later, it’s not going to be a disaster again, right? So, like, it’s so much more of a mindset issue, and I love how a huge part of that mindset is just allowing the process to take time and allowing there to be failure. That’s hard for us. That’s so hard because we want things immediately and

Laura Brook 49:52
gratification to do it perfectly. Yes, I know, I know, and that’s really hard, and I didn’t like I’m really good at it now. I mean, I. I do it all the time for not only myself, for other people, but I, you know, my house isn’t always organized. I have three kids. I mean, my I’m in my room right now, and it’s a mess and right? And I’ll say that proudly, because, you know, the good thing is that now I really know how to get it really cleaned up and organized really fast, so that, I mean, if anything, it’s more fun later, once you get the hang of it, because you’re like, Okay, this is easy now, and you do get it done faster, but it takes time, like I said, organization, like any skill, if you need to get better at it, it’s going to take time. It’s going to take practice, and it’s going to take I would say, with ADHD, really have to focus more on your routines and your habits, more than just the you know, oh, tidying up here and tidying up there, because we’re you’re just going to have the same issues forever if you don’t actually be more intentional with what you’re doing. And you have to take that step back, and this is what’s so hard for me, is taking that step back and thinking about what you’re doing and understanding where you’re going, instead of just wasting the time, because then if you do waste time, you’re gonna be a lot less likely to want to do it again. Of course, true. Just wasted all that time. Yeah.

Kristen Carder 51:11
So talk to me about a routine or a habit. What does that look like? What do you mean when you say that? Right?

Laura Brook 51:18
So, so part of the whole hard to explain, you know, learning about yourself and learning about where you want to be. Well, I say that for people with ADHD, because routines and habits are especially hard for us because we don’t we aren’t blessed with grit that much. You know, something gets hard. It’s hard to power through. We have to work, unfortunately, have to work harder to get through those annoying times. As you were saying, working with me, the arc you know that you feel when you start coming down? It’s, you know, even when I’m treated with medication, I feel like I have to work harder to get over those arcs when you’re on your way down than the average person. So if you have intentional thinking and living that you’re doing, and what I mean by that is if you’re already have your plan and routine in your head and know what you’re looking for and where you want to go, it makes it so much easier, because everything you’re doing is part of the experience, and also be prepared for that arc. Like, that’s something that we have to intentionally be prepared for, and it’s going to be so much easier to handle. You know, we read, you might read a book, like, there’s that, that professional organizer, Marie Kondo, I’m sure you’ve heard of every like, everyone’s talking about it. And you read a book and it’s really inspiring. You’re like, Yeah, I’m going to do it. And you get all your clothes out of your closet, and no one prepared you for the fact that you were just going to hate yourself for taking all your clothes out of your closet at once, and then you just leave it there, right? Because you have ADHD and you hate the arc. The arc is your nemesis, right? But what I’m saying is, if you have the full picture of the routine and habit that you’re looking for, and what I mean by that, it’s little things, so an example of a habit that will help you with with ADHD, and something I recommend to every single one of my clients, especially those with ADHD, it’s called The One Touch Rule, and that is, when you are done eating, you don’t throw your dish in the sink. You clean it and put it away. Okay? You deal with something. You go start to finish with everything you do. When you’re walking it from your house and you have a bunch of junk mail, you don’t just throw it in a pile. You take that literally 30 seconds, and throw the junk mail away or in the recycling. And then, you know, if you have some bills in there, you put it in a pile to pay or something, you deal with it when you touched it, instead of creating that pile of paper which takes the longest. And this is, I’m telling you, every single one of my clients, we deal with paper. I think you mentioned paper. Yes, sucks for everybody so much so there’s no one that likes paper. I don’t like paper. I think that it really sucks, but that one touch rule can save you building up paper that’s going to take you hours to go through, and it literally just takes you 30 Seconds to jump through your to go through your mail every day, and get rid of your junk mail and right and just separate that it’s 30 seconds. So that one touch rule is such a good habit for those with ADHD, because for one you’re not adding a lot of time, but it’s something that’s going to help you upkeep, and it saves you so much time. So if you’re if you’re one of those, like power through Saturday cleaners. Like, you don’t clean your house at all all week, and then you dread Saturday every day, like it’s time to change up that routine, because that sucks. Like, who likes doing that? No, do the one hush roll. Like, when, when you see a mess, you clean it up when you’re done with your whatever you’re working on, just go start to finish. Ish and like, things like that, little mindful things create habits and routines that make it so much easy, easier to be organized and to keep it up so and but at the same time, one touch rule is not going to work for for everybody. So it’s, it’s hard. You have to find like, try things like, look up. You can go on Pinterest, I will recommend going on Pinterest and looking up like cleaning techniques or like habit and routine. There’s tons of stuff on there, and try things out and see what works for you. And I would just say, if you have ADHD, try something for more than five minutes. If you can’t know if it’s going to work for you in just five minutes. Give yourself a time frame of what you’re going to try, because even if the first five minutes is Rocky, that doesn’t mean it’s not going to work for you. So it’s just so complicated. ADHD is so complicated, am I right?

Kristen Carder 55:52
It is, it is, and it has to power through easy to feel defeated immediately. It’s so easy, and I think that everyone

Laura Brook 56:01
feel defeated with something totally Yeah,

Kristen Carder 56:06
I think that’s one of the biggest hurdles with ADHD, is to realize how easy it is to feel defeated, and then to fight against that all day, every day. And I think,

Laura Brook 56:18
and that’s why getting an ADHD coach or professional organizer, or hold on one that that can just take you out of your head space, because that’s what we really do, right? I mean, that’s, that’s what we do. We help you just step out of that feeling of defeat and be like, okay, it was just five minutes and it, you know, it didn’t work for five minutes. That doesn’t mean it’s not going to work for, you know, just someone to kind of take you out of that. And we really need that, and that’s something, you know, I try to teach myself how to do, and it’s still so, I mean, I’ve been working on it for years, and it’s still really hard. I mean, that’s something that you have to admit you’re not, you’re probably not going to be good at that if you have ADHD, right? You know, we have to admit it. We have to, and

Kristen Carder 57:00
that’s why I always say, like, we have to spend more money on ourselves. We have to take, definitely, more time, you know, on ourselves. We have to see the therapist, we have to hire a coach we like. If we want to be successful humans, it’s just something we have to come to grips with. You know, it’s shocking, and that is another piece of the acceptance, you know, yep. Like, really owning that, like, Okay, if I don’t go to see my therapist at least once a month, I am not in a good place, and I don’t have someone else observing my thoughts. And so then I make these stupid decisions, like, I’m going to pile everything in my bedroom, because I don’t feel like it takes too long to put it away, you know, or I don’t know really things like that. I just one thing for me that’s been really helpful is self talking in those moments. And I will literally say to myself, no, Kristen, finish up. Like, finish what you’re doing, put your clothes away like I because we have that ability to have that inner voice,

Laura Brook 58:05
I process it better when I like, when you were growing up, did you read books out loud? Um,

Kristen Carder 58:10
yes, when I could not comprehend what I was reading and I felt like I was reading the same paragraph over and over, I would totally read

Laura Brook 58:18
it out loud. Yeah, yeah, because I feel like I process things better. And of course, people think I’m crazy, but they already did anyway, because I have ADHD, right? But, you know, like talking to myself, like if I kind of talk it out and, you know, I don’t necessarily answer myself, but just getting it out there, out of my mouth, I feel like what it really does is it creates some sort of intention, and you’re also forcing yourself to slow down your thoughts for those few seconds and saying it out loud. And you’re actually, you’re just giving things more intention. You’re You’re slowing down just a little bit, and it really

Kristen Carder 58:52
helps. Yeah, and when I look at a pile and i i Say out loud, I don’t want to clean that pile, but I’m going to spend five minutes on it. I have five minutes to give like, I say those things to myself and it That’s great. So much more doable. Like, it’s like, my brain hears my voice and it’s like, oh, okay, fine. We can do that for five minutes. That’s no problem. Like, I will, like, my brain’s like, okay, fine, we’ll do it.

Laura Brook 59:23
Your brain’s like, okay, fine,

Kristen Carder 59:24
yeah, exactly,

Laura Brook 59:29
or whatever, yeah, that it really is a constant battle, yeah, with yourself, unfortunately, that’s what ADHD is, and you have to accept that. And you’re not going to fight that battle by avoiding it and or avoiding the the harsh realities of ADHD that really suck, but we have to deal with it and, and that’s, you know, that’s one of the things that I deal with, with my ADHD clients who are struggling with organization, is that if, if you don’t accept who. You really are and what you really need out of your space, then there’s no point in me helping you, because I can’t, you know, we’re not going to get there because I’m not going to do it for you. Like, I’m definitely someone who’s I want to do it with you, you know. I don’t want to be a cleaning lady. I want to help people and so and get them to where they want to be, you know. And that’s, you know, I when people call me and they’re like, you have ADHD and I need help with organization, the first thing I say is, are you ready to accept your challenges? That’s the first thing I say on the phone. Because if they’re not, and I can tell right away, because we’re not good at hiding our feelings or emotions either, and they kind of, you know, they let me know. And if they’re not, I say, Well, you take some time and you think about it, and think about if you’re ready to truly get organized. Because if you’re not, and you’re not ready to really take responsibility for your messiness, and, you know, figure out exactly where you want to be, then I don’t want to waste your money either, and I really don’t. I want to do things that that make change and actually help people. And it’s so important that awareness is so important. It’s something that took me so long to find. But if you have, if you spend that money on yourself and you hire someone like a therapist or whoever you know that it helps you so much quicker. And I wish, I wish I did, you know, a lot earlier get that help. And I wish those doctors in the 90s gave me a little education. I really could have used that. But we, we, unfortunately, even now in 2019 have to do most of the education ourselves. And you know, all your listeners are working on that right now, right?

Kristen Carder 1:01:45
They really are, and they I just feel like we’re all having revelations together, you know, like people reach out exactly the time with like, you know, this totally blew my mind, and that’s so fun for me, because I had to learn that on my own. And I love

Laura Brook 1:02:02
right like it blew my mind too. That’s why I wanted to tell you,

Kristen Carder 1:02:06
Oh, my word, she is so right about that if you made it to the end of this episode, here’s a high five for you. I am so proud of you. Listen. I want to remind you that next week is going to be full of all of the practical tips for organization, but the work really begins in your mind, because our thoughts create our feelings, our feelings create our actions, and our actions create our results. Do not forget to visit. I have adhd.com/organization to grab that freebie from Laura, and we will see you next week. I cannot wait to chat with you. Bye.