This episode is sponsored by CURE Hydration. All right, I’m going to be real with you. Drinking water is boring. My ADHD brain is like, wait, we have to do this again? Like every day, multiple times. What in the world? And because I’m running from meetings to coaching calls to kid chaos, staying hydrated is not something I’m naturally good at. It’s not something I naturally think about. That’s why I’ve been obsessed with Cure hydration packs lately. Cure is a plant based hydrating electrolyte mix with no added sugar, only 25 calories, and it actually tastes good. The watermelon and berry pomegranate have been on repeat for me. I’m actually like really running low on those flavors, which is so sad. They’re refreshing without being too sweet or artificial. It feels like my water finally has a little bit of personality, which I enjoy. I really do. What I love most is that CURE uses a science backed formula that hydrates as effectively as an IV drip. 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Don’t know the difference between matte, paint, finish and satin or what that clunking sound from your dryer is. With Thumbtack, you don’t have to be a home pro, you just have to hire one. You can hire top rated pros, see price estimates and read reviews all on the app. Download Thumbtack today. Welcome to the I have ADHD podcast where it’s all about education, encouragement and coaching for adults with adhd. I’m your host Kristen Carter and I have adhd. Let’s chat about the frustrations, humor and challenges of adulting relationships, working and achieving with this neurodevelopmental disorder. I’ll help you understand your unique brain, unlock your potential and move from point A to point B. Hey, what’s up? This is Kristen Carter and you are listening to the I have ADHD podcast, episode number 134. I am medicated, I am caffeinated and I am so ready to roll. Today we’re going to be talking about having ADHD and the spirit specific challenges, barriers to obtaining treatment and lack of support for someone who is in a plus size body. Now before we get started here, I think it would be appropriate for me to add in a trigger warning because we are going to be talking about my client’s experience of being plus size. We are going to be mentioning sexual abuse, we are going to be mentioning racism and oppression. And if now is not a good time for you to interact with these thoughts and ideas, especially because it is the week of Thanksgiving and you know, if you are a plus size person, you might be in situations this week with family members who might not be very kind. And so I just want to issue this trigger warning right here up front and let you know, kind of like what you’re getting into with this conversation. It is a beautiful conversation that I have with my client Sarah. She is just a such a bright light, a deep well of wisdom and she talks about her experience obtaining an ADHD diagnosis and the challenges that she went through and she gives a lot of encouragement for plus size people. But you know, if this is not a good time for you to be interacting with this episode, I just wanted to let you know so that maybe you can come back to it later at a time when you are able to interact with the ideas. So yeah, I just wanted to let you know this week is Thanksgiving in America, like I said. And I just really want you to know, specifically you, I want you to know how thankful I am for you. I am just blown away by your love and your support and the ratings and reviews and your listens and your emails, your Instagram DMs, all the things like this podcast definitely would not exist if you didn’t listen to it. I’m so thankful to be surrounded by a community of ADHDers, a community of adults with ADHD who just like freaking get it. I just feel so much less alone because of you. So thank you. I am grateful for you. I’m so glad that you’re here and I do want to let you know that if you’re looking for a community of ADHDers that you can see and interact with and become friends with. I would love to invite you to come join my ADHD coaching program, Focused. Focused is the place where functional adults with ADHD take their lives to the next level. And if you’re listening in real time, here’s something really important you need to hear. If you’ve been thinking about joining, now’s the time to do it. Because in December, just in a couple days, I’m going to start teaching a course on how to rest. I haven’t taught a proper month long course with a workbook and all the things in an entire year. And so this is big. This is big. So in this course we’re going to do a deep dive into why we don’t rest, why ADHD ers suck at rest, why we feel depleted even when we do rest, how to stop avoiding rest, and practical strategies for becoming someone who knows how to shut off, power down and restore. Rest and restore. It’s going to be really good. I just finished up the workbook this week. It was very hard for me to write, but I did it. So if you’re interested in joining Focus, now’s the time. Make sure you join us. Go to. I have ADHD.com focused to sign up. Okay, so I have my client Sarah here with me today and I actually recorded this podcast with her over the summer. So a couple months ago, but it literally disappeared appeared. I don’t know if the recording was deleted by accident or maybe if I never pressed record, which is definitely a possibility because adhd. But looking back, I’m actually really glad that whatever happened, happened because I enjoyed the conversation that we had so much and I learned so much and I realized how ignorant I really am on this topic. And it kind of sent me down this like rabbit hole of wanting to learn more, wanting to hear more from plus size people in my life and wanting to make sure that the way that I am treating my clients, all of my clients, is from a place of love and not from a place of discrimination or bias, especially when it comes to the way that they look. So Sarah taught me when we chatted last time and I’ve been learning since about how much bias, discrimination, oppression there really is toward and plus sized bodies and especially from the medical and mental health community. And that’s a huge barrier to plus sized people getting the health care that they deserve. And I want to admit that I’ve been confronted with my own bias, with the discriminatory ways that I have thought and acted and my own assumptions and the things that I’ve believed about plus size people. This has been a really transformational period for me, and as usual, I’m sharing it with you before the transformation is officially complete. Not that it ever is, but do you know what I mean? Like, I haven’t arrived. I haven’t gotten there. I’m. I feel like I’m just scratching the surface and I’m just now learning so many things. So I want you to know that I might be clunky in this conversation, but I do want to handle it with care and compassion and love. And so I intend to be very gentle. And if I don’t come across as such, I just want you to know that that’s not my intent and I do apologize in advance. So that leads me to saying that the fact that I even have to, like, Google and listen and learn and actually go digging for information on how plus size people are treated by the medical community, and then I’m like, totally shocked and surprised by the fact that there’s bias and discrimination out there toward people in fat bodies. That’s the ultimate example of privilege. And so I want to acknowledge that. So Sarah and I are going to use the term straight sized for anyone who doesn’t fall into, like a plus size category. And so, like, the privilege of a straight sized person is that, like, not even realizing that there’s fat phobia out there, not even realizing how I’ve participated in it and having to own that for myself. So it’s very similar to the conversation as a white person, like, learning about racism, researching racism, asking the black and brown people in my life how they’ve experienced racism, like, that’s a privilege. The fact that I get to learn about it and research it and I don’t actually have to experience it and deal with it and feel the effects of it on a daily basis. It’s just a very clear display of privilege. So I wanted to acknowledge that, like, right up front. I totally acknowledge that. And listen, privilege isn’t always a bad thing. It’s not even like, it’s just. It exists, right? We all experience certain kinds of privilege. You’re listening to this podcast on a smartphone or from a computer. Like, you are also coming from a place of privilege. We all are. It’s just really important, at least for me. So let me just speak for myself only. It’s important to me that I begin to recognize and acknowledge my own privilege so that I can be a kind, compassionate, caring human and especially caring coach who is able to effectively and compassionately and collaboratively coach people all over the world in a way that does not discriminate against them, in a way that empowers them, in a way that validates them to the best of my ability. And so as a coach, I want to continually learn about my oppressed clients and their experience in the world so that I can do a better job of coaching them. And this goes for you as my listener. You know, all of our experiences of ADHD are different. Not because ADHD necessarily is super different, but the way that we interact with it from our own personal perspective is different. And so if I show up here as a straight sized, class, privileged white woman and expect that everyone’s experience of ADHD is the same as mine, that’s a big problem. And I think, to be very honest, I’ve fallen into that trap time and time again. And it’s something that I’m actively working to, you know, move myself out of where I am open and understanding of other people’s perspectives to the best of my ability. So this is a long intro, but I think it’s really important because we’re going to be discussing the fact that like, a lot of us have the privilege of walking into a doctor’s office with concerns about our mental health and not have the doctor tell us that we’re like, oh, it’s not adhd, you’re just depressed because you’re fat. Like, that is a thing that happens. And it’s a privilege to be able to walk into a doctor’s office and be taken seriously. That’s a privilege. So it makes me very angry to think about you as my listener or the clients that I love having to navigate oppression and bias and discrimination just to obtain a diagnosis that they deserve. And so this podcast is dedicated to advocating for and standing up for all of the plus size people with ADHD who deserve compassionate care, who deserve to be believed about their mental health, who deserve to be medically treated, who deserve a scaffolding of support, and who deserve to be supported because of their mental health issues, deficiencies, problems, needs. So with all of that being said, I love you. And so here is my amazing conversation with the client that I adore. Sarah. Sarah, thank you for being here with me for a second time. Thank you for being willing to have this conversation with me again. And also thank you for being willing to kind of educate me in the language that I use. And like, it’s just annoying, I feel like that I have to show up in that way. But thank you for being gentle and kind. So thank you, thank you, thank you. Glad you’re here. Welcome, welcome. I think it’s a really important conversation, so I definitely want to do it again. So I’m glad that we can, too. Tell us a little bit about yourself. Like, where are you in the world? What does your life kind of look like right now? And maybe even a tiny bit about your ADHD journey. Okay. I’m Sarah. I live in metro Detroit, and I, like, kind of have always been thicker or, like, plus size since elementary school. Starting to, like, go through that puberty kind of, like, weird stage. And so, like, I have a lot of experience with being plus size, but I also have experience being thin. And so, like, I kind of know what both sides of it are. But I think that’s also, like, the least interesting thing about me. Like, I’m an artist. This is my piece. Painting, like, so gorgeous and trying to do that full time. But, like, I mostly paint spooky stuff. I’m a witch. I do sword fighting. Like, I want to open a pit bull sanctuary one day. So, like, a little neurodivergent weirdo. But, like, it’s cool. Perfect. I love it. And when did you discover that you have adhd? So, like, I had never, like, I knew always that something was wrong. And even when I was in younger grades in school, I knew that I had, like, kind of a hard time comprehending or focusing on things. And I noticed that both of my siblings were now taking, like, meds because they were struggling. I didn’t know, like, the name of it or anything, but turns out I was the only one who was like, hey, I’m having trouble. But I had good grades, so it was like, you’ll be fine. So it wasn’t until I had a boyfriend who had ADHD who suggested that I might. And that was, like, four or five years ago. And so then I tried to go to a doctor to get diagnosed and talk about it with them, and they said, you don’t have adhd. You can’t focus because you’re depressed because you’re fat. And so here’s some pros act and it’ll still help you with your weight. And I was a lot thinner then, too, and I had never said that my weight was an issue to me. So for them to just be like, no, you’re just fat. You’re fine. So, yeah, I didn’t get diagnosed until a year ago in July. Wow. Yeah. So. And at that point, I found an online thing that you can fill out. You don’t have to talk to anyone face to face. So I knew no one could discriminate against me. And I filled out all this stuff. They came back adhd, primarily inattentive. And so I took that to my doctor and then found a good psychiatrist. And so now, like, it’s all come together. But, like, it took a lot of years for me to even try again. Tell me what feelings come up when you go to the doctor. And a lot of us have had situations where we go to the doctor thinking that, you know, there’s something happening and we’ve been dismissed. But I would guess that there’s a certain level of disappointment or shame or frustration or, like, what are the feelings that come up when somebody dismisses an actual condition and wants to blame it on your size? Like, it kind of ends up making you feel, like, really hopeless, really stupid, like, small. You’re the expert of your own mind and your body, and you know what you experience better than anyone else. And for me to go there and for them to say that and for me to have felt so much hope, like, I’m finally going to be able to, like, do the things I need to do and get help, and for them to just take that away just because they think I’m bad, it feels like, why should I even try again? Like, you should go get another opinion. But even going that first time as a privilege, not everyone has access to health care, especially mental health care. So, like, if you just blew all your money on this test, you can’t go get a second opinion. Totally. Totally. I think that this is a great place to just pause for just a brief second and say, like, we’re. Let’s talk about, like, the terminology that we’re going to use and how, like, your opinion of kind of reclaiming the word fat, I think is so, so, so important because you have a beautiful perspective. And it’s actually like, in the research and the learning just a little bit that I’ve done in the last couple months, I’ve also seen a lot of articles and heard a lot of podcasts on that reclaiming of that specific word. So can you tell me a little bit about, like, what that means to you? Right. So, like, obviously, like, people can say plus size, and that might even feel more comfy for people who are in straight size bodies, to use that term. But the fact is that, like, fat is not. There’s no morality in size or food. Like, you just get to exist and, like, fat is a descriptor word. I have fat on My body, It just is what it is. It doesn’t make me a bad person. But a lot of people in their fat phobia will make me out to be a bad person or worthless because I have extra fat on my body, which is just a natural, like, state of being for, like, a lot of people. So fat is not a negative word, and people make it that. So I feel like using it just as a descriptor kind of helps reclaim it and take away the negative connotation. Like, especially when people will be offended. For me, like I said, when I call myself fat and they go, no, you’re beautiful. Like, yeah, I know. Like, I am both. They’re not mutually exclusive. I am fat and beautiful. Like, I’m a 10 out of 10. Like, it is what it is. Totally so. And, like, I feel that for, like, all women, too, you should just, like, choose to believe that you’re a 10 out of 10, because anyone who’s going to tell you otherwise has some work to do. 100%. 100%. I love that so much. And we chatted kind of before we got rolling just on, like, the different ways that we can speak about people and how, like, it might be comfy or uncomfy for someone to just describe someone in a certain way. And really, we have no business describing each other. First of all, right, like, why are we doing that in general? Comment on other people’s bodies. It’s none of your business. I just read a fascinating article about. And it’s kind of an old article. Like, apparently Adele lost, like, a bunch of weight at one point. And instead of talking about this Grammy Award winner and all of the contributions that she’s made to the world and how talented she is, all people could talk about was, like, her body, her body, her body. And she didn’t even bring it up. She was not even talking about her. She wasn’t saying, like, hey, guys, I lost a lot of weight and, like, you should whatever, or like, I’m so happy that I lost weight. Like, we don’t know if maybe there was something happening in her life or she was going through something. Like, we don’t know, and why do we feel the need to. To comment? It’s beyond me, right? And, like, the issue, like, the people that. Well, there are a lot of people who, like, wouldn’t validate her as a person. Like, they would choose to make fun of her because she had extra weight rather than acknowledging her incredible achievements. And now it’s like, she’s just the most amazing, beautiful person. Oh, My God, she lost this weight. She is incredible. Like, she was incredible before, so. And now she kind of also feels, I think I saw that she’s not responsible for other people’s feelings because now some plus size people feel some kind of way about losing like an idol and it’s just like, either way, it’s none of your business. And like, let’s think of, like some of the reasons that people can lose a lot of weight. Cancer. Right. Starving because of oppression or depression, like mental illness. Like, people could be really sick and losing weight. And for you to tell them that they look better now is really harmful. Totally agree. I read an interesting statistic that says that 52% of women say that their weight has been a barrier to receiving appropriate healthcare. And if you could talk a little bit about that, I think that would be really helpful because I think for a lot of my plus size listeners, there’s going to be some feelings that come up, I am sure, because the thought of going like, maybe they’re considering getting a diagnosis or maybe they’re considering like changing their medication or even asking for medication for the first time and the notion of them having to anticipate being discriminated against in that appointment can be so difficult. And the fact that the first thing you do when you get to a doctor’s office is you have your weight checked and then that seems to be the topic of conversation rather than what’s actually going on with their mental health. Can you just speak some words of wisdom and validation into that experience? Right, yeah. So, like, I obviously, like, told you I know what that’s like. And that first time I went, they literally told me that they thought I was just trying to get Adderall so that I could lose weight. Which now that I’m on Adderall, I have not lost any weight, so. And I even forget to take it sometimes. So it’s like, hilarious that they would ever think that. But maybe for neurotypical, I don’t know. So when you go first of all, the weigh in is really scary. And you can ask for a blind weigh in and possibly explain because a lot of people with ADHD can have binge eating disorder and other eating disorders. And so seeing a weight, your number on a scale, especially if you still have your shoes and clothes on and, like, are extra heavy, like had just eaten, like, there’s so many factors that you can ask for a blind weigh in and explain that, like you’re trying not to trigger your eating disorders and are trying to heal from them. And if they’re about that. It’s time finding a new doctor. Honestly. I think also a lot of doctors still for some reason think that weight is like an accurate indicator of health when it’s not like we were talking about BMI is like bs like it was created entirely on white men. And so for women and people of color that it doesn’t help them at all, it means nothing to them and it’s really harmful. And then there, there’s actually a study that I found in between our last recording. So it’s really cool. It’s called the Healthy Lifestyle Habits and mortality of Overweight and Obese Individuals. Which I hate those words but it kind of shows that they did a study with over 11,000 people over the course of like 414 years and they highlighted 4 health building habits and put people in different weight categories of like straight size, overweight or obese. And when those groups were doing zero of those health building habits, the risk for disease and other like really bad health factors like shoots up for heavier people. But even just adding one health building habit totally levels out all of the risk factors for each weight group. And the further along you get, if you add all four health factors, there is very little, there almost no difference for each weight group on how much of a risk there is for things like heart disease. So for if you’re doing these health building things that they not smoking, limiting your alcohol, eating enough fruits of veggies and exercising like a bit like there’s no difference. So for a doctor to be like not asking you about those things and just assuming that because you’re fat that you’re probably going to have a heart attack or diabetes. And also I saw that a lot more straight sized people probably have diabetes. They just don’t ever think to get checked for it because of the way that society thinks about it. So it’s like not, it has nothing to do with weight. So if they want to make it about your weight, you can say that you want it noted on your chart that they’re not going to do additional tests. And usually they will concede and like do more testing and like listen to you. I also saw a nurse say to ask for a differential diagnosis and explain what else it could be and then why, how they’ve ruled those things out. And it’s likely that you could get more testing because a lot of times if you go in and say my back is hurting, you actually have an issue with your spine. Well, you should probably just lose some weight. Right, right, right, right. Okay. So I just Want to take a second here and say that I just listened to a podcast all about this study that you are referencing. It was a study done by Katherine Flagel, I believe. And then this guy, something Willett, came in and like, tried to debunk it, but then actually he used, like a bunch of junk science and it was all this thing. And I never recommend podcasts on this podcast because I want my podcast to be the only podcast that you ever listen to. But in this case, because I’m so not an expert in this area, because I think this podcast does such an amazing job of debunking junk science and explaining there’s different episodes on, like, why the BMI is total junk science. One all about anti fat bias, one about eating disorders, all about Weight Watchers. I actually got hooked into this podcast because somebody posted about an episode on Rachel Hollis. And I, like, the mission of my life is to be the opposite of Rachel Hollis. If you don’t know who that is, that is totally fine. But I just do not ever want to be like her. And so they have two really interesting episodes on Rachel Hollis, which I would recommend. But the one that I just recently listened to that includes a study that you’re referencing is called Is Being Fat Bad for You? And essentially, like, the research shows that, just like you said, if you are doing these things that are healthy for most people, unless you are in, I think they called it, like, class three obesity or something, they’ve like, categorized, like, different sizes and saying, like, okay, the largest size, sure, there are some health risks, but for most people who are plus size, if you are doing these healthy things, the mortality rates are the same. And they also found there’s so much research to show that, like, if you’re single, your mortality rate is like 200% higher than someone who is plus size. So, like, actually being single is a lot more dangerous than being screwed. But, like, okay, so like, men, single people are like, oh, no. But like, honestly, I think the point though is that we can’t just look at someone who is a different size and say, like, oh, you’re unhealthy. And that is what we’ve been trained to do culturally. Look at people who are a different size and say, oh, clearly you’re unhealthy, clearly you’re lazy, clearly you’re not taking care of yourself, quote, unquote, whatever that means. Right? And so that’s the reason why you’re having a health issue, or that’s the reason why you’re having a mental health issue, rather Than let me actually investigate your mental health. Let me actually investigate whether or not you have adhd. Let me actually investigate if you have the markers for something that might need treatment. Right. Especially when a lot of other things could be causing the weight gain rather than the weight gain causing depression. Kind of like Dr. Russell Barkley was talking about on your podcast. It’s like ADHD puts you at a predisposition for being plus size or smoking or using drugs because of, like, issues with impulse control and needing dopamine 100%. So I mean, and then there are things that, like, make it hard or impossible to lose weight for people, like pcos. Like, women have a condition sometimes where it’s just, it’s really hard and maybe you can diet your way out of it, but that can be really triggering when it comes to, like, diet culture and eating disorders and your mental health getting worse. Like, part of your overall health is your mental health. So if, like, for a while you have to survive by binge eating because it’s making you feel better and you’re not turning to drugs or suicide, like, please God, overeat. Like, totally, totally, yes. And there’s so much research to show that dieting is so harmful and that your nutrition wanes and it, it’s depleted and it causes so many adverse health effects. And so tell people to diet. And there’s this other really interesting statistic. 79% of people with excess weight report eating more to cope with weight discrimination. So you go into a doctor’s office and you say, hey, you know, I think I’m struggling with adhd. And they say, actually you’re just depressed because you weigh a certain amount. And then because of whatever that brings up for you, hopelessness, shame being dismissed, being invalidated. The solution is not like, oh, I’m just going to go and do all of these actions that are going to serve me and my health instead. The solution, of course, because from hopelessness and shame and disappointment, we’re going to take actions that don’t serve us. We’re going to take actions that don’t actually help the situation in any way. And so it’s just so obvious. Even I’m just learning a tiny, tiny, tiny bit. And I know I don’t know a lot and I know I probably say things in ways that are hopefully not problematic, but like, a little clunky. But, like, it is so obvious to me that there’s a problem here, and I don’t understand why it’s not obvious to everyone or to the medical community at large. Yeah, I really, like, I feel the same. I don’t know how doctors can just ignore being a dang doctor and actually figuring out what is wrong rather than being like, oh, you’re just fat. Right, Right. And especially being an ADHDer with literally everything else, we know what we need to be doing. We know that, like, eat healthy food, go for walks, maybe try to run, lift weights, I don’t know, don’t smoke. That doesn’t mean it makes it any easier to do those things. We, like, know what we need to do. We’re not stupid. But that doesn’t make mean we can do them because we have executive functioning issues. Totally. That’s such a good point. Because that is like one of the fundamental differences or disabilities that we have is doing what we know, doing what we know we need to do. And so you can even someone who is maybe wanting to implement, like, going for a walk every day or like, exercising of some sort of, you can want that, you can know that you need that, and you cannot know how to do it or not be able to do it consistently. And if someone with ADHD is treated properly, is medicated properly, is validated and supported, there is such a huge probability that they will be able to take these steps, maybe not consistently, but probably persistently enough to make healthy changes in their life. And maybe a healthy change, it’s simply just like, I go for a walk every day, right. And, like, that’s a really important healthy change. Maybe the healthy change is like, I’m able to stop smoking or I’m able to, like, stabilize my eating in a way that, like, is healthy for my body and I’m not like, binging. Those healthy choices can be stimulated from being properly treated. And so why are we not focusing on proper treatment rather than the behavior that we want? I’m saying we, but really it’s like the mental health community or the medical community. Yeah, well, because. Yeah. And, like, even since starting my medication, I, like, don’t really binge eat anymore. Like, my body is just like, we’re just done now. Like, I don’t even necessarily have to be full, but it’s just like. And because I’m on medication, my brain isn’t constantly stressed starving so badly for dopamine that I’m searching for in things like German chocolate cake or pizza. Like, I love vegetables. But, like, when my brain, like, needs dopamine, it’s like, nah, we’re going for a quesadilla. So it’s really helpful in that way that, like, and then there’s like the actual preparing of the food, which is really hard for me. And it’s much easier to go get Taco Bell. So that’s like a whole nother. Like, I can’t actively meal prep because I just like cannot function. So. And this is not even like a plus size issue at all. This is a human issue. Like all of us, like, we struggle with the executive function of just like showing up as a human in the world. That is, I think it’s like equal to our peers in the ability to like, meal prep, go to the grocery store, find the things that we need at the time that we need them, think ahead about like, what do I want to eat later? Like, I, I feel like I’m the worst at this. And I can only imagine if I also had kind of like the pressure of someone saying like, if you don’t do this, you are going to xyz, like there’s going to be a problem. Right. And it’s just like that added pressure would literally make me do the exact opposite. Right. You just want to like retreat inside yourself and then like, and that’s even just on a day to day basis, like forget. If something happens in your life, like you lose someone or like you go through a breakup like me, or like you hits your car on the freeway and you lose your car like me, it makes it extra hard to like, want to do those things because you get extra depressed. So like, even if you have been successful in something like losing weight, anything in life because life happens can bring you right back to like coping that way and gaining weight back. And so if there’s shame in society, we’ll feel shame in ourself and then be right back to where we were and need to like start again, which is defeating. Yeah. And that starting again, I think is something that we can all relate to as ADHDers. But if you’re not getting the proper support, treatment, validation, it can almost feel impossible. Right. So it’s like, well, I could start again if I were properly treated for my adhd. But since I wasn’t believed at my doctor’s appointment and I’m not properly treated for my adhd, the starting again feels or maybe actually realistically is more impossible. Yeah. And sometimes it just takes time. But yeah, I mean like, it just like creates this big cycle of things getting worse or feeling like, why even bother? And then getting worse and then you literally can’t and then you keep coping in ways that are not necessarily healthy, mentally or physically. So you mentioned that sometimes obtaining a Diagnosis for adhd, or whatever the case may be might require someone to be a little bit more aggressive in a doctor’s appointment. Can you give my listeners some encouragement in that way? Because for me, I have definitely been dismissed in doctor’s appointments with other things, and it’s not the same at all. But to push back on a doctor feels like I’m doing something very wrong. Right. Especially when you’re maybe someone like me who hasn’t got a college degree and you’re in the room with someone who has, like, a doctorate. Like, it has the potential to make you feel very small. And so, like, it’s important to, like, maybe even think through in your head, like, what you want to say or even, like, write it on your hands, like, for when your mind goes blank in those kinds of situations and be like, no, I know what I’m feeling. I’ll go get another opinion. But here are these ways to, like, hold you accountable. Like, noting it in my chart. Like, asking for a differential diagnosis. Like, insisting that there are other factors that are better indicators of health, like blood pressure and, like, your A1 and your, like, heart rate and things like that. Like, and I think even was it your podcast that I was listening to about bringing maybe Dr. Russell Barclay’s, like, book or something to your doctor and be like, look at this. I know what I’m talking about. Please listen to me. Bring your research and your notes and your thoughts and, like, because I know even with me, I’m considering the fact that I might also be on the spectrum. And so I’m, like, working up to talk to my psychiatrist about that next month. And so every time I think about it, though, I forget the reasons why I think that I might be on the spectrum. Even though when I go through the symptoms or the experiences of people on the spectrum, I’m like, oh, yeah, that’s me. You’re my people. Yeah. Like, even my TikTok for you page knew it before I did, which is the same with my. It sounds kind of stupid saying it that way, but the algorithm gets to know you so well that it started to be like, you might be on the spectrum. You might want to look at these, like, every one of the put a finger down challenges, all 10 were down. And I was like, oh, maybe I should look into this. Yes. So, yeah, even just, like, knowing building your internal authority, just like, knowing. Taking online. I want to call them exams, but they’re not evaluations. Yeah, those kinds of things. I mean, like, get. Try to get a real diagnosis, but I Mean, that’s also a privilege. So self diagnosis at times can be just as valid. But to get treatment you should like medication. You have to get a real one. So you can also do what I did and go online and have this report from real psychiatrists that said, say you have ADHD and take that to people and be like, look, here’s actual evidence that I have it. Right? It was like only a couple hundred dollars rather than like thousands. You can like report it to your insurance and try to get it reimbursed, but it doesn’t take insurance. But that was the right way for me personally. And so that’s an option. And I. What was that site? We’ll link it in the show notes. I think it was like ADHD D diagnosis.com or something like that will confirm that and link it in the show notes. Yeah, I’ll find it and send you a link too because it was, it was really, really helpful because I wasn’t going to go, especially as an ADHD or make more appointments, spend time in waiting rooms, spend time waiting in the room for the doctor and then have to talk to a doctor and have them demean me. Like I was not going through that again. So this was like the perfect way. And then for me to have the power in my hand to be like, I already know that I have adh, so maybe you should just. Yes, yes. It’s excruciating to go through that process anyway. Right. And so once, like you did it once in person and then you’re like, okay, we’re going to find an alternative. Like, this is not going to work for me. And I love that because you advocated you knew what you needed and you took care of your needs. And it took me years to build back up to that because I was like, well, they say I don’t have adhd so I must just be crazy or depressed like they think I am. And it wasn’t until I started seeing TikToks about ADHD symptoms in women and how people don’t take women seriously as often. It’s starting to get better but like women are way under diagnosed when it comes to adhd, so. And they present differently sometimes. So I took that. I literally had a breakdown in my mom’s office. Not about like how I don’t understand how women can, like other women can like manage everything and I can’t do anything and is just getting like really bad. So she ended up paying for it for me to get my diagnosis, which then in turn has led to like taking more Responsibility at work, getting a raise, being able to pay for treatment for myself, that kind of thing. How incredible is that? That’s so amazing. I just realized that I never said the name of the podcast that I was referring people to. Oh. Because I have adhd. And so the name of the podcast is called the Maintenance Phase, and it’s Aubrey Gordon and Michael Hobbs, and they’re both writers and academics and they research and I love how they are always researching a ton. But I do need to say that the F bombs flow like milk and honey on that podcast. So if you’re someone who loves the F word, great, you’re going to love it. If you’re someone who hates the F word, you might not love it. I listen to it and I, I love the content of the podcast so much. And also they’re really funny people and they interact like the banter back and forth is just hilarious. So anyway, it’s called the Maintenance Phase and I listen to it on Apple podcasts, but I’m sure it’s everywhere. Aubrey Gordon and Michael Hobbs. And I highly recommend it for anyone who wants to gather more information and for anyone who wants, who is open to their way of seeing the world being challenged. And that’s the thing that I love about it, is that they are constantly going against cultural norms, not just with people’s sizes, but with other things as well. And it’s. To me, it really makes me think, it really makes me confront things about myself that I didn’t ever have to, which I think is really healthy. So it’s called the Maintenance Phase. Circling back to what you were saying about preparing for a diagnosis exam or even just like a medication discussion, I think that this is a good word for everyone listening, but especially anyone listening who falls into any kind of intersectionality, like any kind of grouping that the world might have bias against. So people of color plus size people women like, or God forbid, a plus size person of color who is a woman. Right. Like, if you, it’s just like so shocking how the level of care gets lower and lower and lower, the more that you kind of add on as far as what’s the proper, how do we say it? Intersectionality. Like the more intersections that are, that are happening with you as a human, you do need to know that, like, having preparation for these conversations could be hugely in your favor. And so preparing for a conversation with a medical professional by printing out symptoms of adhd, I mean, that’s what we’re talking about here. But it could be anything. Like, I have back pain And I’ve researched and I’ve whatever. But printing out symptoms for adhd, even taking along books and circling, you know, the, the places that you resonate with. Taking any. Like, if you were diagnosed as a child, like, taking that research, if you’re able to find that from your parents, maybe even bringing someone along with you who can stand with you and support you and advocate for you, and if you get kind of, like, emotional or clammed up. Is that the word? I don’t really know. Who can kind of step in and speak for you. All of those things are so important. Not just if you fall into the category of plus size, but if there’s any measure of bias that someone can have against you. We want you to get the support that you deserve. And sometimes that means having to prepare more in advance. And that is not fair. It’s totally not fair. But it is reality. And so I think encouraging you to do that, I think that’s the right thing to do. Yeah. And I mean, fatphobia affects every other kind of, like, intersectional group of oppressed people. It is a system of oppression in itself, but it’s also rooted in other systems of oppression, like racism, sexism, ableism, classism. Like, if you’re in a poor community, there may be a food desert or you just can’t afford healthy food. And like, if you’re disabled with ADHD or a physical disability, you can’t. It’s not just as easy as getting up and going for a walk sometimes might not even have legs, like, and that can affect, like, your size sometimes. So it’s just to expect someone to just be able to lose weight as ableist. Right? Yeah. And there’s. So you mentioned this before, but there’s so many reasons why people are the size that they are. And it has so much more to do with so many factors and can have very little to do about the food that they’re putting into their body. And so that is, like, so frustrating and also doesn’t take much research to find out. Again, it circles back to the conversation. I’m like, why is it so hard? Right. A lot of people, I think too, they’re not necessarily a lot of people, but there are people in the world who just choose to remain ignorant about it so they can have superiority. In the same way that that’s an issue with like, white supremacy. When you’re trying to, like, continuously validate putting someone down in your mind so that you can be better, it’s like, it’s an issue and it really is oppression. And it’s like, I know a lot of people too want to say that, like, well, I’m skinn or straight sized and I get told to eat a cheeseburger. And it’s like, that’s not oppression, that’s bullying. Yes, oppression. For it to be like actual oppression has to have all three parts of individual, ideological and institutional. And so that bullying is the individual part. But when it comes to being plus size or fat, the institutional is like the idea that thinness is the ideal body type. And that, like society thinking that it’s okay to make fun of fat people because it’s our choice to be fat. If we wanted to, we could just be thin. It’s our fault. We’re lazy, we’re worthless. That’s kind of the view, the ideological view. And like, it’s, it’s so bad that there are people and it’s like, I know people on the Internet, like, say horrible things like I said to like get a reaction, but they’re encouraging other people in the world who do believe stuff like that and making it especially dangerous for fat women to exist. Yes. And I think as a society we. Slash, I participate in that in a way that’s like, I mean, obviously I don’t even know who this is, but like, people may be listening to that and being like, well, that was really mean. But, like, their other content is good. So like, I’ll just keep listening, slash, supporting them. Right. Like, we kind of dismiss, like, yeah, that’s like, that wasn’t really cool. But like, I’ll still consume their content or I’ll still buy their product or I’ll still do this when it’s like, no, actually like, supporting that, that’s just being a huge part of the problem and supporting this, like, ideological nonsense to continue. Right. Like, one of the really important things that I learned out of, like, a lot of the things that I learned at the BLM protest last summer that I was at is silence is violence. And it’s so if you don’t like, speak up when your friend or even like a content creator is doing something really harmful and terrible, it’s not just like, cancel culture. It’s like, hey, you need to make reparations for this because this is a terrible thing that you just did or said. And especially if you don’t take accountability with your personal friends, like, you’re allowing them to continue to be fat phobic, to continue to be racist or homophobic or whatever, and you’re contributing to the problem. Yeah. So that’s the ideological Part of things. But then with institutional, like we were talking about being denied medical care, fat people are less likely to get hired at jobs because we’re perceived as lazy and not hardworking. And even just like, we don’t get to participate in shopping. Like, because companies, even if they sell plus sizes, won’t carry them in stores, so we can’t try them on. We don’t get to shop with our friends. Even plus size stores like Torrid have a real issue with consistent sizing and staying up to date with fashion and actually hearing the voices of fat people who are saying, your clothes are out of date. Maybe like, we don’t want cold shoulders anymore. Oh my gosh, that was a thing from like five years ago. Please, no more holes for the shoulders. Right? So yeah, it’s just the whole system is built around not catering to plus size people. When honestly, when you look at clothing sizes, especially for women, not only being inconsistent, but plus sizes start at the average size for American women and then go up from there. So most women are just screwed when it comes to that kind of thing. Yep. Essentially we’re having all of these conversations from the perspective of like a white male, straight sized person. So. And what I mean by that is like the research is done on white males and the like, so much of the conversation is just centered from that position. And you know, I will admit that as a straight sized white person, it is like I have to figure it out that like, oh, hello, there are so many other perspectives and mine isn’t the quote unquote. Right. 1. Like, why can’t we just open up to like, there’s a myriad of perspectives and we don’t need to center around anyone. We can just be open to everyone and having accessibility for everyone. And I think it probably comes down to money. Right. Which is so annoying. Yeah. And it’s like, especially too when you talk about that the plus size Body positive movement was started by plus size black women. Like, and yet their voices are often being silenced on platforms like TikTok, where we find support. And like, it’s important to like raise their voices when you can. But like, you have to try. You have to put in the effort to like seek them out and work to like manipulate the algorithm to be showing you those black voices and when you see them, lift them up, like, like their content, follow them, that kind of thing. Because, yeah, I mean, even with all of the oppression that I go through, it’s still a privilege to like be a white woman in this space. Like you’re saying and so it’s important to make sure we’re hearing their voices too. If there are plus size listeners who are considering going for a diagnosis but are worried, they’re anticipating the bias they’re going to face, they’re anticipating the stigma that’s going to come up. They’re anticipating having to have a phase freaking conversation about their weight. Can you just encourage some of my listeners who might need just like a hand holding to move forward with the process of like being brave enough to seek out a diagnosis? Yeah, like, I mean, even in any situation, even like with having to go to a family member to ask for support or like literally just going to Thanksgiving, just know that like you are worth the space that you take up and you deserve respect and love and health care and access to like things that straight sized people are don’t even have to think about. It’s really, it’s, it is really a hard journey to go on. Like, I can’t just be like, it’s just easy. Just love yourself. It’s like really hard. Even right now as, as someone who is like very body positive, like wants to encourage plus size people and like to own being fat. There are still days where I like, should I be trying to lose weight? Like that kind of thing and feeling like maybe I don’t belong in a space. So you just have to put in the practice and it’s really hard. But it’s definitely worth it because even if you can get to a point of being body neutral and just going into the world and not spending the entire time thinking about whether your thighs are jiggling or how your chin looks or like, am I sucking in my gut? Which you should not do. And like all those kinds of things, you experience life more fully and so practicing those things and then you go into a situation where you have to talk to someone like a doctor, it helps to build up that confidence. So like, you know what you’re talking about, you know what you deserve and you’re more willing to fight for yourself, I think. But yeah, I won’t say that it’s not hard or scary. Even having had a boyfriend this summer who like goes through the same things is ADHD was plus size has lost a lot of weight. Like even just knowing that is like triggering for me to like not fall back into my eating disorders or wanting to starve myself because I have been skinny before and I did it by starving myself. Right. That’s not healthy. And I am the healthiest I have ever been, being the largest I’ve ever Been. So just know that, like, you can be healthy and know what to ask for and be assertive, even though it’s scary, even though it might feel rude, be fucking rude. If someone’s gonna dismiss you, that’s really rude. And they’re not doing their job. And, I mean, I guess you could potentially report them to some kind of governing system that is regulating health care, like doctors jobs. Like, it’s their job to give you proper care, so make them hold them accountable. Right. So the life coach in me wants to know, in addition to feeling fear, which I’m sure you did, what was the primary feeling that motivated you to get your diagnosis? Like, take that step again. Like, go through the process again. Because I’m sure there were a lot of negative emotions floating there with you. But what were the neutral or positive emotions that, like, propelled the action of, like, no, I’m going to, like, investigate this thing and I’m going to ask my mom to pay and I’m going to fill out this form. It was kind of more of, like, getting to, like, everything starting to, like, fall apart and, like, obviously intense fear, but I was having, like, legitimate panic attacks every night that would last for hours and hours and, like, dark, intrusive thoughts, like some suicidal ideation. Not really wanting to, but having the thoughts pop in my head and then panicking about it. Yeah. Not wanting to. And so, like, things like that. Losing my car, having my house be such a mess, and not being able to do anything about it. And it’s. It’s more that I, like, literally just, like, broke down and, like, was burnt out and could not exist that way anymore. But there was some, like, hope inside me, like, some visualization of, like, a future where, like, I could be an artist. Like, I obviously made steps in my life. Like, I bought a house alone. Oh, my gosh. So good. Like, I’d obviously been able to do things, but then I didn’t have anything in place, any scaffolding, any treatment to, like, be able to maintain these achievements. Like, a house is a big thing to do alone. Yeah. So things just, like, fell apart. But there was, like, some sense of hope for sure that, like, things could be better. And with a little bit of confidence, just, like a tiny little spark of confidence that, like, literally TikTok gave me, I was able to, like, fan that into a flame and then, like, keep the embers going long enough to, like, start treatment. I love that. So I just want to say to anyone listening who might be dreading a diagnosis conversation or an appointment with their Healthcare provider. I just want to say to you that feeling fear is completely valid, especially if you’ve been dismissed before, especially if you’ve been discriminated against, especially if there are, you know, there’s evidence of your oppression, that fear is totally valid. And if you can add in a spark of hope or a little bit of confidence or a little bit of, like, determination in addition to the fear, so the fear can be there, but then these other things are coming in as well, that is enough to fuel you to move forward with this diagnosis. And whether it’s ADHD or something else, it’s still important for you to know what’s happening in your body and your brain and to get the treatment that you need. I’m curious, Sarah, what has your experience in focused been like? We didn’t talk about that at all. How has that been for you? Yeah, I mean, it’s still a struggle to do a lot of the courses because, like, I also want to be in therapy, but, like, my budget is what. But, yeah, so, like, it definitely helps when I am doing it and, like, learning piece by piece, even learning, like, the littlest thing, like the model, and like, eventually, like, having that pop into your head. It doesn’t every single time, but more and more often it’ll be like, okay, do a model. It’s fine. Just, like, figure it out. Or like, there was even one time where I was, like, at bedtime, like, breaking down, like, really panicking. Like, this should be easier. I should be able to do this. I was doing so much better. Why am I not doing better anymore? Like, it should be better. And then literally your voice in my head was like, no, it shouldn’t. No, it shouldn’t. You have adhd. I was like, oh, yeah, it shouldn’t be easier. Mean that it’s not possible that it can get better. But treatment is for literally anything is not a straight line. It’s up and down like a roller coaster. But, like, so it’s definitely, like, worth it. It’s still hard just, like, anything else to, like, sometimes make yourself do the thing. But finding ways that it fits into your life helps. Like, for a while, I was going to the gym and watching the course videos while I was on the elliptic. And so I’m trying to get back to that. And then, like, doing. I’ll print three courses, workbooks at a time and do, like, one little bit of each before bed. And then, like, getting thoughts out of my head, too. Helps me relax so that I can sleep totally. And so I’ll, like, use it that way. And it’s like, when it comes to anything with ADHD too, it’s like, important to know that, like, rules don’t exist. Yeah. Like, there’s no rules. Like, I painted a forest in my living room. It’s so beautiful. I wish you guys could see what is happening behind Sarah. It is a beautiful. What is it? It’s. What kind of trees are those? Like, birch. I painted gold leaves on them. They’re probably not exactly right with a black background. I mean, I just. Oh, my gosh, it’s so pretty. Christmas tree up. Such a beautiful metaphor for the way that you are trying to orient your life though. Well, I, like, I felt like I would be more comfortable living in like a magical forest. Like, I am a witch, so I, like, painted one and like, I’ll do things like run the dishwasher twice. I literally take Flintstone vitamins because the gummy ones have gelatin and I’m vegetarian, so I can’t have them. And the other ones taste bad when you burp. So, like, I know they’re for kids, but I literally just take Flintstone vitamins. Yeah, because there are no rules. Exactly. Yeah, it is. My bathroom is Halloween themed. Like, oh, my gosh. Like, I sword fight. Well, I haven’t been back in a while, but I’m trying to go back. But I sword fight for exercise and also meditating, in a way. Love it. So fighting for exercise. That’s incredible. It’s intense. Especially in the summer. They do not have good AC in that building. And you have to wear a fencing mask still and swing around these heavy, long swords. But because there are no rules, you are giving yourself permission to set your life up in a way that makes sense for you. Right? Exactly. Like, our brains are different and so you may as well just roll with it. Like, I’ve realized that, like, every social rule that I’ve ever learned is pretty much a neurotypical social rule. And so, like, I don’t need plain walls. I can have my three walls and whoever buys my house next can just paint over them. If they’re a jerk. If they’re a jerk. And why would they want to? They’re not going to. Like, especially when you’re constantly needing dopamine. Like, create a space, especially that makes you happy. I feel comfortable. So I’m not again, starving for dopamine. I’m not in a white walled, sterile room. I’m in, like a magical little brain space. Love. Yeah, Sarah, you’ve mentioned, like, body positivity and working through Your own journey. Can you share a little bit about that and maybe give my listeners some helpful feedback on ways that they can maybe shift into a more neutral space when it comes to their own bodies? Yeah, well, so like therapy and try to find like a therapist who is plus size because they might be more like, helpful. Even though like fat people also have internalized fat phobia, that might be a helpful place to start. But for me, like, choosing to believe that I’m a 10 out of 10 and like, like trying not to see like any reason why I shouldn’t be. Totally. And then like, so one of the big fears is like going out into public and someone confronting you and being an asshole and saying that you are disgusting or worthless. Okay, so again, my privilege showing itself. I cannot believe that that is the experience that you and other people have faced. I. It’s like, which is so annoying. I know that, like hearing me say that is probably so annoying, but I am like agog. Like, I. I’m aghast. I cannot believe that that is a thing. People definitely treat you different. And especially having been someone who had a period of time where like I was straight size and then going back through things and gaining weight from like living through my trauma and stuff like that, it’s very obvious to people who have lived on both sides that people treat you differently and that you become invisible or you become worthless in the eyes of certain people. And it’s like hard. But I had a man once. I had just gone on a six mile walk around a lake with my friend and like needed something to eat, but it was like in the pandemic, so which is why we had been outside hanging out and not a lot of stuff was open. And I’m vegetarian, so there aren’t a lot of options for me. So I went and picked up like a hot and ready pizza and literally walking out after just having done this really healthy thing for myself, like being willing to like, with my treatment, not binge eat, but just like feed myself because I was starving. After walking for miles and miles, this man yelled across the parking lot, mama, you’re too big for that tiny little car. Well, had a small car before deer hit it, but. And so like, it sucks because immediately after like driving away crying, I was like, I should have been like, well your is too small for that big old truck. But like, you don’t think of those things because it’s painful. So leading into try to think of your reaction if someone does that to you. Give you confidence. So now my go tos are kind of just to literally laugh in someone’s face, like, what are you even saying? You’re so stupid. Or to talk to them like a toddler, like, no, that’s not how we treat people. You don’t do that. That’s a no. I love that you just put a mom voice on. I don’t think you’re a parent, but that was good. Such a great point. To anticipate what someone might say and kind of prepare for that in advance and kind of have something in your back pocket, so to speak, of, like what you might want to say in advance. And if we could just pop that into the medical field as well. Like when, like maybe think through in an appointment. If someone, if a doctor were to say xyz, what do you want your response to be? Even writing out a script, like you said earlier, could be so helpful because even though we wish we existed in a world that didn’t include bias and stigma and oppression and discrimination, we actually do live in that world. And so to summon the courage to anticipate the oppression in advance, which just. Oh, my goodness. But anticipating that in advance and preparing for it can be really helpful for you and for the other person to know that, like, no, I have boundaries here. Like, you do not talk to me that way or you do not dismiss me in this way. Right. And another thing that I saw someone suggest, which I’ve started using with tenants on the phone at work who are really aggressive, is, are you under the assumption that I let everyone in my life treat me this way or are you asking for me to make an exception for you? Oh, I love that. Nothing to me, but I think talking to them like a toddler kind of like makes people take a step back. Like, you learn when you’re a little kid that you don’t treat people like that. And so for you to, like, be a full adult and doing it. Yeah, no, totally embarrassing for you, not me. Yep, Yep. In that regard, sometimes the person saying mean things to you is yourself. So, like, even as a body positive person, I love, like, seeing fat women and like, I think they’re beautiful, but my own brain will say, you’re kind of gross and worse. Wow. And a lot of that comes from my trauma with, like, being in an abusive relationship where my ex husband used to tell me that I was disgusting and fat and worthless and I should be grateful that he is with me because no one would ever want me. And he used to, like, make me work out and like, restrict my calories and it was really Traumatic. And so part of like, another thing with that is that I still have a piece of me that views exercise as a punishment for not being worthy of love. So it’s like another thing that we have to consider when it comes to, like, why some people might be plus size. It feels like punishment for me to work out, so I have to work through that. And that’ll take time. But when your brain is doing it to yourself, one thing that helps is rethinking those thoughts in the voice of someone you just absolutely can’t take seriously. And like, I won’t say who mine is just so I don’t stir anyone up. But, like, I absolutely can’t take them seriously. I think they are so stupid and ridiculous. And so when I hear them saying, you’re stupid and worthless and disgusting, I’m like, you can like, F off, dude. Yes, it makes it easier. And I think even, like, when it comes to, like, things like imposter syndrome or not even having to do with your body image, just negative thoughts in your head, if you rethink them as a person you don’t take seriously, it’s helpful. I love that and I love what you’re talking about really is like setting an internal boundary with yourself. Yeah. Like, yes, we set boundaries with other people where we say, like, it’s not okay for you to talk to me that way or it’s not okay for you to dismiss me or invalidate me. But then also we set those boundaries with our yourself as well. And saying like, okay, like, I hear what you’re saying and it’s ridiculous and we’re not going to go there. Or I’m only going to allow this in my head if I think about it in the voice of that person that I think is ridiculous. Setting that boundary where you draw a line and like, this is not how we treat people. Like, even that phrase in your head, right? Like, no, this is not how we treat people. That can be so helpful because you stop tolerating it with yourself and you stop tolerating it from other people. You will begin to advocate for yourself more and get more of the help treatment scaffolding that you deserve to have. Yeah, exactly. Like with yourself and with other people. People aren’t going to change if they’re not in a place to, or they’re not ready to, or maybe they’re even dealing with other things. Like they just don’t have the mental capacity to change. So I think, like, even when it comes to, like, responding to other people, literally just laughing at them or telling them that’s not okay. I think it’s better than maybe bullying back. Totally. Because that person might be dealing with something like sexual assault. And so their brain is in a horrible place, they’re thinking horrible things about themselves and they’re projecting that on you and making you lower than them so they don’t have to feel as bad. So it’s not our job as oppressed people in any group to take care of the feelings of the people who are treating us badly. But at the same time, I don’t want to necessarily be lower than I am by doing the same thing because I know my worth and I know that I deserve the space that I take up. And I think the one thing too that makes it easier to know that you deserve that space and that you are worthy is finding other fat or plus size influencers and like having that presence in your life and like seeing it a lot and like having it be conscious in your mind all the time and starting to idealize these other people who are fat, but they’re also intelligent and funny and worthy and beautiful and weird and cool. Totally. Oh my gosh, that just sparked a whole. I wish we had hours to talk. Yeah, I really do. You are just a deep well of wisdom and I’m so glad that you were willing to come on and have this conversation with me for a second time and allow me to have like, not all the right words and not, I don’t know, just to have a clunky conversation, but I mean, so grateful to you to share your story. I’m so grateful to you to be willing to help the community of ADHDers, anyone who is dreading advocating for themselves, anyone who is feeling dismissed or invalidated. You are such a bright light and I’m so grateful to you. So thank you. And I just adore you. And I mean it’s, it’s quite validating. Thank you. Well, I mean it. And I just, I’m so glad that you are here. A few years ago, I went looking for help. I wanted to find someone to teach me how to feel better about myself and to help me improve my organization, productivity, time management, emotional regulation, you know, all the things that we adults with ADHD struggle with. I couldn’t find anything, so I researched and I studied and I hired coaches and I figured it out. Then I created Focused for you. Focused is my monthly coaching membership where I teach educated professional adults how to accept their ADHD brain and hijack their ability to get stuff done. Hundreds of people from all over the world are already benefiting from this program, and I’m confident that you will, too. Go to ihaveadhd.com focused for all the details.
