Andrea Ashley

I HAVE ADHD PODCAST - Episode #273

July 23, 2024

Healing from Dysfunction and Complex PTSD with Adult Child Podcast Host, Andrea Ashley

Andrea Ashley is the host of the Adult Child podcast. She’s blazing the trail in recovering from addiction and Complex PTSD. Andrea and I dive into a heartfelt conversation about the intricate web of ADHD, trauma, dysfunctional families, and Complex PTSD. Andrea shares her powerful personal journey, from growing up in a dysfunctional family to her profound realizations about trauma and healing.

Reflecting on her past, Andrea discusses her mother’s alcoholism and how she was unfairly scapegoated within her family. She emphasizes the importance of recognizing deeper family issues and seeking help, explaining how accumulated experiences contribute to trauma, rather than just major events.

We delve into the concept of Complex PTSD, childhood shaping beliefs, and the impact of emotional neglect on self-development. Andrea’s healing journey is a central theme, highlighting inner child work, coping mechanisms, and the launch of her own podcast. She talks about dealing with abandonment wounds, self-care, and the challenges and growth involved in the healing process.

We also touch on Andrea’s struggles with phone addiction, attention span issues, and her ADHD diagnosis. She explains how social media and intense content preferences have impacted her addiction and shares her efforts to reduce shame by being open about her story. Andrea underscores the importance of community healing through support groups for childhood trauma and neurodivergence.

I hope you find today’s conversation with Andrea Ashley as enlightening and inspiring as I did. Her journey of self-discovery, healing, and growth is a testament to the resilience of the human spirit. If you’re dealing with similar issues, know that you’re not alone and that seeking help can make all the difference. Don’t forget to check out Andrea’s podcast her community, The Shitshow

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Kristen Carder 0:05
Welcome to the I have ADHD podcast, where it’s all about education, encouragement and coaching for adults with ADHD. I’m your host, Kristen Carter and I have ADHD. Let’s chat about the frustrations, humor and challenges of adulting relationships working and achieving with this neurodevelopmental disorder. I’ll help you understand your unique brain. Unlock your potential and move from point A to point B. Hey, what’s up, this is Kristen Carter and you are listening to the I have ADHD podcast, and medicated I am caffeinated. I am regulated, and I’m ready to roll.

I’m here today with Andrea Ashley from the adult child podcast. I love this woman we connected about a year ago, I had the privilege of being on her podcast. It was a very raw time for me. So I hope we can kind of talk about that interview and how I feel like I showed up as a weirdo. But that is totally fine. But I absolutely love the work that she is doing her podcast, the adult child podcast features so many experts in the area of trauma, dysfunctional families, complex PTSD, et cetera, et cetera. And it’s such an amazing resource for those of us who grew up in dysfunctional families. Andrea was diagnosed with ADHD, but she is questioning that diagnosis, which we’re going to talk about and just can’t wait to get into all of the things with her. So Andrea, welcome. Thanks for being welcome. Do

Andrea Ashley 1:40
you ever say I’m caffeinated and dysregulated?

Kristen Carder 1:42
I do. I 100%. Do once in a while. It’s like y’all, I am not regulated. It’s gonna be a spicy app. And those are some of the best ones. But unfortunately, today, I am feeling good. Okay, good. Hey, thanks for being here. You have such an interesting family history that I think a lot of my listeners will relate to. And so would you mind just kind of telling us your journey like your sobriety journey, but then also, how you kind of figured out that you grew up in a hella dysfunctional family and like the impact that that had on you?

Andrea Ashley 2:19
Where to begin? So I’m somebody that always knew that my childhood was less than ideal. You know, my mom was an alcoholic, my parents fought. But I never I had no idea the true magnitude of the impact on me, you know, I thought that because I could talk about it without getting upset. I thought that because I was never physically or sexually abused. I thought that because all of my needs had always been accounted for. I thought that because I became kind of the problem, the focus of the family at the like, age of 12. All these things, I thought I had zero clue that what I had experienced was trauma, like, no clue, no clue at all. And it wasn’t until I realized that what I was experiencing in romantic relationships was complex PTSD. And I think that there’s probably so many people out there who don’t realize that that is what what’s going on for them. Yeah. So hitting my bottom, my adult child bottom, so I was gonna get into my addiction too, but so I was nine years sober. Seven years sober. I dated a guy for less than a month. He ghosted me and my reaction was as if my husband of 30 years had just like, tragically died in a plane crash. I was nonfunctioning, I couldn’t go to work. I literally felt like I was gonna die. And this was not this was not like a new feeling for me, but it was definitely heightened. Yeah, so I feel like most people when they get sober, they don’t necessarily have like the best romantic picker. I mean, typically, like you’re not getting sober with like, a long history of like, healthy, romantic relationships and like high self esteem. So the issue was, though that was that I saw my friends that I get sober with, I saw their pictures and proof. And my picker was not improving. And it was more so from the perspective of like, how I felt each new relationship I felt crazier than ever I acted crazier than ever. My peace of mind would just be hijacked. as immediately as I got into a relationship. I was not somebody that hopped from one relationship to the next, I would have a long period of time in between relationships. I felt good about myself. I liked myself, I promised myself that I wasn’t going to ignore red flags. I could promise myself I wasn’t going to find myself in the same situation. It was like time after time after time. thing kept happening, and I couldn’t figure out what the hell was going on. And so here we are, yet again, seven years so Ever. And so it was in the midst of that pain that I realized that one, there was no way that the way I was feeling could actually be about this guy. Because I had known him for less than a month. And he clearly had a drinking problem. And the second aha was, Wow, this is the exact same feeling that I felt as a little girl when I woke up in the middle of the night and felt like I was going to die if I couldn’t sleep in my mom’s bed. And that was like the first time that I really made the connection to this being childhood related. And so it was like a couple weeks later, a couple of months later, probably. I’m at a 12 step meeting, I hear a woman with over 30 years sober talking about when she had seven years sober, that she had had this relationship she had hit her like a second bottom came to terms with the true impact that her child had had on her. And she mentioned this book, adult children of alcoholics and dysfunctional families. So I go home, I read the book My mind’s blown. It was like for the first time I’m like, seeing everything on paper that I had felt thought did. Now mind you, so I had gotten sober in Florida. At this point, I was living in San Francisco, but where I got sober in Florida, I felt like people with long term sobriety, their stories were like, life sucked. I got sober, and everything was great after that, like sure life on life’s terms still happens, but like, pain of my own making, like cease the day that I got sober. Right. And so like, there was a lot of like, shame there. You know, and thankfully, in San Francisco, people were people were talking about it. Because

Kristen Carder 6:34
that wasn’t your experience. Is that what you’re saying? Like, you weren’t having that same experience of like, life letter? Well, life

Andrea Ashley 6:42
was but not when the dating stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Like, yes. It was like every other area of my life was improving. Yep. But like, I mean, I was this this relationship stuff wasn’t and I was becoming convinced that like, I was inherently flawed and unfixable. I couldn’t figure it out. Yeah, yeah. And so reading this book, you know, really was such a relief. So the next week, I go back to that meeting, and I see that lady, and I go up to her, and I’m like, thank you so much for what you shared. And she’s like, that’s great. I just want to let you know that just reading this book, like, is not going to be enough. Like To fix this, like, this is gonna take years of therapy. Yeah, yours. And you have to treat this as seriously as you treated your alcoholism. And I was, I don’t know, maybe I was like, 28. And I’m like yours. Like, I don’t I don’t have yours, lady like, I need this fixed yesterday. And I really just hope that her childhood was like, a lot more screwed up than mine. And so I was like, I’ll take a year off from dating, I’ve read this book, like, surely that’s good enough. You know, fast forward a year and a half later, like enter a new relationship, another alcoholic, and the most like insane, painful six months of my whole life. Even worse than like, hitting my bottom, like from from drugs and alcohol. And it was through that, that I really came to understand that this was trauma like that this was complex PTSD, and really came to understand that, like, my life depended upon like, really confronting this stuff. And that I did have to take it as seriously as my alcoholism. And that actually was probably, this is probably even more severe that I find I always knew that, like, alcohol was a symptom. But it was kind of through this experience that I was finally realizing that like alcoholism was just a symptom, you know. Yeah. And so when that relationship ended, I really just embarked on this journey to like really heal from, from all of this stuff.

Kristen Carder 8:50
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Andrea Ashley 10:22
Just like give a little snapshot of what my, my childhood experience was like. So I only child, things looked very nice and pretty from the outside. And you know what things were like, I would say 80% of the time, things were really great. But so when I was seven, I found out my mom was an alcoholic. We were like out to dinner one night, I was with my mom, we’re sitting at the table. And she had ordered a beer. I remember she was barely barely drinking it. And then at a certain point, my dad arrived. And I could see she started to cry a little bit. She took me to the bathroom. And I remember asking her like, what was wrong, what’s wrong? And she said, I’m an alcoholic. And clearly, like, I don’t know, your seven. That means somehow, like I kind of I don’t know how to explain it was like, I didn’t know what that meant. But I didn’t know what it meant. I said, What does that mean? And she said, it means that I can’t drink. And it was like I went to bed that night and woke up the next morning almost like having skipped several like stages of development in a way. And I developed this sixth sense as it related to her drinking, and I would feel it. Hours before she would even pick up a drink. The times that she drank the most was when my dad was out of town for work, which was often and you know, she was always there to put me to bed and pick me up from swimming and feed me dinner and all that stuff. But she would do it drunk and and there were times when I would you know she would she would fall asleep downstairs pass out downstairs. So what what would happen was whenever my dad was out of town, I would always go in the middle of the night and go like when I’d wake up to go to the bathroom in the middle of the night, I would go and spend the rest of the night in her bed and it was almost kind of like a fun like sleepover type thing. And so one morning I woke up or one middle of the night I woke up and I went in there and all the lights were on the bed was still made. And she had passed out downstairs. And I just remember the first time that that happened just like hysterically crying, like trying to get her you know, upstairs into bed. And the thing was, is that my my mom’s drinking was a secret like from the rest of the world. And so my dad really used me as like his emotional support and confidant Yep, like very much emotionally parental FIDE, like eight years old, helping him search the house for her booze, you know, pouring booze down the drain. And to me all this was like very exciting. You know, like it was it. I think that that’s how I how I dealt with it as opposed to being like, just absolutely just terrified. And, and sad was that, like I found it was it was almost like I got a hit from it. Like I really do think that like my first addiction was probably to the chaos going on in the home. Yeah. And I remember just sitting on the stairs, like, late at night listening to my parents argue, just like a moth to a flame and just needing to hear like every single word that they were saying. I think that there was an element of safety that came from being able to know exactly what was going on. Sure. But so then what happened one night is I was nine years old, I I woke up one night, in the middle of the night, my dad was not at our town. And I felt like I was going to die if I couldn’t sleep in my mom’s bed. Like I just had this. I mean, now I realized that it was you know, some sort of an emotional flashback, but I just lost it. Like I was inconsolable. And so finally they gave up they let me sleep in there. But that started this pattern of every night, falling asleep in my bed and then switching places with my with my dad in the middle of the night. And after several months of this going on, they eventually sent me to a therapist. And I remember asking years later, like, hey, like did you ever tell the therapist that like you were an alcoholic? And that you and dad fought all the time? And her answer was no, it didn’t seem relevant. And so like at age nine, that’s when I became the identified patient. The Scapegoat of the family that

Kristen Carder 14:30
means when you say the identified patient, because I know that’s like a term that’s widely used, but um, I don’t know if my people like it’s not something that I knew about. So So what does that mean? I

Andrea Ashley 14:40
mean, it’s kind of like the scapegoat, but it’s like, I’m the I’m the one with the problem. Like I’m the person in the family that’s been labeled as the symptom bearer, right. Like, I’m the one that’s, I’m exuding all of the, the issues of the family. So

Kristen Carder 14:58
now functional five Family kind of pins, all of the issues on to one person and instead of taking care of their own stuff, they label you or the identified patient as like, okay, this person really has a problem. We need to get them how we need to get them therapy, etc, etc. Meanwhile, they’re not doing anything to help themselves. They’re not doing any therapy on their own. They’re not taking care of their own issues. Yeah,

Andrea Ashley 15:26
you know, and I think it’s some families that it’s interesting, because it’s not like, clearly there were issues, right. Like, clearly, I was exuding problems. So it’s not like, just out of nowhere. They’re just like, throwing all this stuff on me. I mean, clearly, I needed help. Right. But, yeah, it’s a way for the rest of the family to avoid having to confront and look at their own issues. Yes. And really what that is, right? Like, I’ve made posts about this about how, like, you’re not the problem child, you’re the you’re the child communicating the problem. And so you really are the whistleblower, like you really are trying to sound the alarm bells of like, hey, something’s going on here. Like, please, hell yeah. And I think that now, I would hope that therapists would probably handle that situation differently, with just what we know now, but I’m not really at the time. And but here’s the thing is like, so eventually, you know, I was able to start sleeping my own bed again. But then when I started to act out, when I started to drink and use drugs at 12, like that actually worked in fixing the family, like, my mom stopped drinking as much, and my parents stopped fighting as much because it’s like, they had to come together to like, really deal with me, you know, and so then that’s when from, you know, 13 to 19, until I got sober, you know, is in and out of rehabs boarding schools, all of those things. And there’s a lot of other things that were happening there too. But that worked. Like they, they got their act together. I mean, at least while I was acting out, so it really can work, you know, but the problem is, is once if that person gets better, or seeks, you know, help, you know, the rest of the family just kind of picks up where, where they left off. And unfortunately, like, that is the case with my family. And I mean, both of my parents are, I mean, my mom’s in like, late stage, alcoholism. My dad’s definitely an alcoholic, too. Wow, it’s very toxic. It’s very sad. It’s so dysfunctional. And they’ll try to put me in that kind of scapegoat role still, when they can? Yeah, I mean, I’ve gotten a lot more defiant. I don’t really put up with it as much anymore. But it’s amazing how, yeah, I’ll try to do whatever they can to kind of put me in that role. And you know what, it’s not conscious. Yeah. I don’t I know that they’re not doing it intentionally. But it’s hard. It’s painful, I’m

Kristen Carder 18:15
sure. So tell me how you did not identify as someone who had trauma. Because I think this is so so so common. And I swear, someday, I’m going to write a memoir. And it’s going to be called, I don’t have any trauma. Because as someone who is very, very highly traumatized myself, I never knew that what I had been through, and was like, also, like currently going through up until my almost 40 years old, was trauma. And I think that there is this thought process that trauma is an acute, single incident that happens, it’s, you know, an S A, it is a wild car accident. It’s the early death of someone in the family, like it’s a huge event. And what we now know is that trauma, it can be small things that happen to you over time, where a wound happens, and there’s no soft place to land. There’s no one caring for that wound. And so it leaves, you know, a lasting scar. But, you know, I think that we all carry trauma as especially as neurodivergent people in a neurotypical world, but for you, it seems pretty obvious now, like looking at your story. Why hadn’t anybody really I mean, I

Andrea Ashley 19:47
because No, I didn’t. I didn’t. I thought that trauma was like, big T trauma. It’s not I mean, I’ve really just I wasn’t educated in that way I had never heard of, of complex PTSD. So, in therapy

Kristen Carder 20:01
you had gotten to rehab. Why? How does anyone like I’m angry on your behalf.

Andrea Ashley 20:08
But here’s the thing, too, is that this stuff didn’t, I wouldn’t say the trauma didn’t really surface until I was, you know, in my 20s and sober and all that stuff came up. So I’m not really sure. Like, yes, there was traumatic things happening. But one like I was the focus of the family, right. But I think, I don’t know if it’s a thought process versus like, you didn’t, we don’t, nobody was talking about this. I didn’t know that. Like, I thought that like, it really had to be some sort of catastrophic event, or, you know, sexual abuse or witnessing something really horrible. I had no idea that especially from the perspective of like, complex trauma of just like little things, accumulating over time. And I think that, at least for me, I wasn’t able to, I wasn’t able to really, truly understand that what I had experienced was trauma until I saw like, on paper, like, these are the symptoms, this is what you’re experiencing. This is complex, like even, even if you had told me or tried to explain what complex trauma is, to me, it wasn’t it’s kind of the same thing of like, being an adult child. Like, I didn’t know that my childhood had impacted me as much as it did until I saw on paper. Oh, these are all the symptoms like this is everything that I’m experiencing. And so it really wouldn’t, I don’t think I would have been able to come to terms with it. Unless I actually saw that what I was experiencing was PTSD. Yeah.

Kristen Carder 21:52
That’s such a good point. So since you bring it up, I do want to read what makes an adult child and adult child’s because I went on your podcast, having listened to it before, but really not knowing. And as you are reading me the symptoms, I am getting so activated because I’m like, Oh, yup, uh huh. Yes, yes. And so I just want to read it for everyone. This is from adult children of alcoholics and dysfunctional families, World Service Organization. Here’s some of the questions that we use to help identify ourselves as an adult child. Ready? Here we go. Do I fear authority figures and anger and angry people? Do I see most forms of criticism as a personal attack? Do I have difficulty identifying feelings? Do I involve myself in the problems of others? Do I feel more alive? When there is a crisis? Do I judge myself without mercy? And guess at what is normal? Do I recall anyone in my home drinking or taking drugs or being involved in some other behavior that I now believe could be dysfunctional? Do one of my parents make excuses for the other parents drinking or other behaviors? As an adult? Do I feel immature? Do I feel like a child inside? I could answer yes to every single one of those frickin questions. And that makes me mad. Like I get angry thinking about that.

Andrea Ashley 23:29
Yeah, I want to like circle back on like the like, what is? What is trauma thing? As far as like being kids like it is. It’s not about what happened to you. It’s about what you came to believe about yourself in the world as a result of what happened to you mostly, it’s also about like, who, who was there and who wasn’t there? Like we all do experience like, traumas kids. What can prevent it from turning into like, PTSD and adulthood is if you have somebody there that’s able to kind of like help you process and work through what happened. But that’s why that’s why little T trauma, I think is so much more damaging than experiencing like one big T trauma is because all of this is happening. When you’re developing your sense of self. Like when and also too it’s like you don’t have the brain like development or maturity to be you’re not like in your head like oh, well I’m just like being emotionally neglected. Like, thank God, I’m not being sexually abused, like Timmy like you don’t have that sort of. You don’t have that sort of rationale. Like you can’t think that way. Like as a kid you don’t like you’re just seeing through things through your own lens. And not even really it’s not even like I know for me When my parents were treating me a certain way, I wasn’t thinking in my head like, oh, this, this must mean that I’m unlovable. Like none of that is either conscious either. Like it’s all just been insidiously like brainwashed into you. And you don’t even know it’s there. Until you just act certain ways in adulthood. You think that you like yourself, and you’re like a person who like thinks highly of themselves would not be acting this way.

Kristen Carder 25:28
That’s why it’s called complex trauma. Because it’s so insidious. It’s so so when you look back, at least for me, personally, when I look back, it’s very hard for me to point to a singular event that’s like, this is the thing. This is the one thing like this is the reason why I’ve had to change family relationships. This is the reason why I’ve had to, you know, work so hard in therapy. This is the reason why I have emotional flashbacks is like, no, there’s like 400 things. It’s death by 1000 cuts. And it is this realization that emotional neglect can be so much more damaging than a like a big T trauma, not that we need to do trauma Olympics, and like whose trauma is worse. But when you’re emotionally neglected, you don’t realize that you’re being neglected, just like you said, and you just start to believe like, I’m not allowed to show emotion, I’m not allowed to have emotion. Everyone else’s needs are more important than mine. I’m here to be responsible for the family. And you just take on this, like this persona, not even, it’s so unconscious. And then you’re an adult, who’s like, totally devastated by this one month relationship. Right? Or I’m I shared before we started recording, like, I had an assistant move on to a different job. And I felt like I was being like, it was a divorce like, like she was abandoning me like she didn’t love me or want me and like, this is a professional relationship Kristin, like, get a hold up yourself. And I’m like bawling, like feeling abandoned by someone who’s just taking a different career step, which is totally fine. It’s like, those emotional flashbacks are so confusing when you can’t pinpoint it. And I think it does take that like, uncover uncovering of like, oh,

Andrea Ashley 27:28
this is what I’ve experienced. Yeah. And it’s not like, That’s the worst part about it, too, is that you can know in your head, that the reaction that you’re having regarding your assistant is totally out of proportion, and unreasonable. And you can know that in your head, and you still feel like you’re gonna die. It doesn’t matter.

Kristen Carder 27:50
Yep. And I did, and I was, then there’s this extra layer of shame, because you’re like, what’s wrong with me? Why? Like, of course, she’s allowed to go work for whoever she wants to work for, like, what is my problem? Kristen, like, get a hold of yourself. And then there’s the flashbacks to your being dramatic, you’re too much. Go to your room and calm yourself down. And like, Come back when you’ve got it together, like all of those things happening as well. And it’s just this huge, huge pile of crap.

Andrea Ashley 28:23
No kidding. Yeah. It’s so it’s, I mean, I’ve just come to terms with it even more, just since starting, you know, the podcast, I started the podcast in 2021. And I just continue to just kind of come to terms with just like, The Body Keeps the Score, or like all of that stuff, just the ways in which like, this is embedded into our nervous system, that it’s in our body. It took me a while for me to come to terms with the whole, like, inner child stuff. I thought I knew that it was legit, like I knew there was like, value there. But I thought that it was corny. Yeah, you know, I’ve come to realize how important and necessary and valuable it is. And now what’s coming up to the forefront for me that is this whole parts aspect. Yeah. Like that’s, that’s like kind of what’s been unfolding for me. For me now is just this concept of like, how trauma causes us to like, you know, our self to kind of fragment into all these different parts and develop these coping mechanisms. And, I mean, a lot of this stuff just sounded crazy to me. Like most of the stuff, I’m like, This is so weird.

Kristen Carder 29:50
How have you found yourself healing like what has that looked like for you?

Andrea Ashley 30:00
cuz it’s like continuing to, like, unfold and, you know, I I would say, you know, hitting that bottom at nine years, and then like really starting to do this work. And a large part of that was, like, really figuring out who I was, and like, what my purpose is, and, like, stepping into, like, my authentic truth. And that was like really beautiful and an amazing starting the podcast, and it’s everything that’s come from that has been really beautiful. But, you know, regarding like, the the inner child stuff, like, I knew that there still was some shit there that like, I hadn’t addressed, like, it took me probably wasn’t until about a year and a half ago that like, I finally was able to start crying. Like I heard from people when they would start this work that just like the first year, it, it just crying constantly, like, nonstop. And the whole time, even with my therapist, I’m like, I’ve been nervous. I’m like, When is this gonna come up and like, am I gonna be able to handle it, and am I going to be able to, to get through this. And so it really isn’t, I’m still, you know, coming out of it. But like, it was like a little over a year ago, it was just one thing after another as far as like my abandonment wound, getting hit and like, open like wide open, just all this stuff that had yet to be healed, becoming very, very obvious. And a very weird experience of been, like, so sane, yet so insane. At the same time, you know, just kind of observing myself, like watching myself engage in certain, like behaviors or coping mechanisms that I know are not healthy or understand like, where it’s coming from. And having this understanding of like, this is the shit that still needs to be healed. Not really being able to, like, do anything about it almost in a way, but then also realizing that this is how it works. Like, I think that like when we’re going through stuff, we have to kind of sit and like the, the pain of like, the awareness, almost like before, we’re able to start, like doing things differently. And for me, what’s really been coming up, and it’s still all tied to my parents, it’s really this, this belief of, like, I can’t take care of myself, you know, for, you know, I have this deep fear of, of abandonment, or this deep fear of like, I have to, the little girl in me thinks like, I’m not going to be happy. I can’t have a happier successful life, unless I end up in a relationship. And me realizing how much of that is actually just rooted in the belief that like, I can’t take care of myself, like, is it really that like, I need someone? Or is it’s really more so like, I need someone to take care of me? Yeah. And just untangling all of that stuff. And how much of it is mine? And how much of it is taking stuff on for my parents and how much of it is stuff that’s come from other generations? And it’s just, it’s been? It’s been very interesting. I think that for me, it’s because of the experience that I’ve had to where it’s so crystal clear that like, this is all part of the universe’s plan, and just just how like synchronistic everything has been, yeah, it’s easier for me to like, trust that everything is happening, like exactly the way it’s supposed to. Like, I don’t feel that way all the time. But there is more of a part of me that believes like, okay, like, this is all going to be worth it at some point or this is all going to be able to make sense. It’s all part of the plan. But there’s really, I don’t know, it’s just the stuffs like, this stuff is not it’s just, I just think that whether it’s your higher power or the universe or your higher self, like, you’ll continually be put in these situations in order to like work your shit out. And before it was like, why does this keep happening to me? Why is this happening to me? When it’s really like, I know exactly why this is happening to me. It’s really, it’s really mind blowing. I know.

Kristen Carder 34:52
It’s like it’s like an invitation. It’s like this constant invitation that’s put in front of us like Would you like to work on it now? Would you like to work on it now? Would you like to work on it now? And And when you finally are able, whether it’s like, financially, emotionally, mentally, spiritually, like you’re finally able to say like, okay, yes, I’ll work on it now, then, then you start identifying instead of why does this keep happening to me, you’re like, Oh, of course, this is how I’m going to feel, of course, I’m going to feel abandoned. So the other day, I had my abandonment wound triggered in a situation. And I was just like, Yeah, of course, like, it felt horrible. I did freak out, I got really dysregulated. But then it was, instead of like, why does this keep happening to me as like, of course, this is how I’m feeling? And how am I going to take care of myself? And how am I going to support myself? And how am I going to make sure that like, I can get back to equilibrium so that I can like, have the rest of my day instead of having to go like lay on the floor, and just like,

Andrea Ashley 35:55
whatever.

Kristen Carder 35:58
And I just think that it’s like this invitation. Like, when we keep having these same things happening to us, it’s this invitation of like, Would you like to work on this yet? And sometimes we say no, and that’s okay. But it will keep happening.

Andrea Ashley 36:13
Yeah, and there’s a part of me that has felt like, also kind of, like, angry at my higher power, too, in the sense that, like, I don’t know, all this stuff might just sound crazy to whoever’s listening, but like, I don’t know, it’s very obvious to me that, like, I was chosen to, like, be a voice for this cause and there’s a part of me that like, does sometimes like get like, angry, like, in, like, resentful, like, as far as like, can I just get a break? You know?

Kristen Carder 36:45
So, so, that’s so yeah,

Andrea Ashley 36:46
it’s, you know, I just see how all of my experiences like ended up, you know, being opportunities for me to be like a voice of healing for other people who are going through certain things. But it’s like, like, God, like, I’m gonna just throw me a bone here. Like, I’m helping all these people out. Like, you know what I mean? Like, it’s, it’s really frustrating.

Kristen Carder 37:15
Yeah. Yeah, it is. I don’t want to trivialize it. So please don’t feel like that’s what I’m doing. But it’s like that hero’s journey, like you watch the movie, and you’re just like, This poor main character, like they’re getting slammed from all angles. And then and then the relating to that of like, oh, that’s, that’s you? Yeah. That’s so hard. It’s hard. You said earlier that you are stepping into your authentic truth.

Andrea Ashley 37:46
I have been, I mean, no, I would say I haven’t. That’s what I would say, when I started doing this work. I did. What

Kristen Carder 37:51
is it? What do you feel like are the main aspects of your authentic truth? The

Andrea Ashley 37:57
fact that I’m so authentic?

Kristen Carder 38:01
But does that mean, you know,

Andrea Ashley 38:03
well, I’m just, and this is why I am supposed to do this job. Yeah, there is a part of me that is, so there is like, kind of like this radical level of like, self acceptance for myself. Mostly, there’s just this vulnerability about me. And it’s not even really about me choosing to show up. As my authentic self. It’s like, I don’t know how to be any other way. You know, like, so that’s kind of part of it. I think that a large part of my purpose is it is just letting people know that it’s okay to just like, fully own your entire story. Another thing that I think is is unique about me and a large part of my purpose is to help other people, like be able to laugh at themselves. You know, just to be able to kind of like find the humor in I know if I want to say in our flaws, but kind of like in our in our pain,

Kristen Carder 39:07
yeah. Or just humanity like in our humanity. Yes.

Andrea Ashley 39:11
So it’s very interesting because yeah, I will open up about all the stuff that probably a lot of people think is cringy or embarrassing or whatever. I don’t feel that way. But here we can go there. I’ll tell you where I do feel that way. Is like they get with my phone. Like, I don’t want to talk about this. I feel like a great I feel such shame and embarrassment about that. I don’t want to talk about it at all. So

Kristen Carder 39:42
tell me about it.

Andrea Ashley 39:44
I have a serious phone addiction and it’s Candy Crush.

Kristen Carder 39:49
Yeah,

Andrea Ashley 39:50
it’s it’s, I need to it’s it’s it seems so ridiculous to me. And I know it’s not and I need to like It’s interesting, like when I, when I say things like, Oh, I’m crazier. I don’t mean like, I’m crazy. And I don’t take it that way. But I’m having somebody pointed out to me recently like, Well, do you think that maybe there are parts of you that like, maybe don’t like that you’re saying that like, I don’t feel that way. But there might, there might be some truth there. If I keep saying that. And as I said, like this past year has been hard. So I think that my phone, in certain respects has, like, saved my life in certain ways. It’s been really hard for me to really grasp this as an addiction. Because, yes, I understand that there is, you know, like the dopamine hits, like, Yes, I understand that that’s going on in the brain. But like, as somebody who is, you know, a recovering alcoholic, as somebody who is, I don’t know if like love addiction is the right word. But as somebody who’s had like relationship addiction type issues. There’s not the sense of like euphoria, like there’s not the euphoric hit that I get from, like, the phone that I do from other things, right. Sure. But like, it is absolutely a problem is I think that the, the impact the changes that have occurred in my brain, like I really don’t think that this is like that. I’ve had ADHD like, I really do think that this is my phone has my brain. Wow, I’ve been reading this book, I don’t know where it is, oh, hereness. Smartphone, dumb phone. Oh, just like reading about this. It’s like, the attention span, like none of this stuff has started to happen. until like, until my phone addiction stuff, like really started to like ratchet it up, and never had issues with attention. I never had any of these issues, until the phone stuff started to happen. And it’s just like

Kristen Carder 42:00
a very personal question. Absolutely. When you were diagnosed, did your clinician ask you questions about your childhood? And, and like notice markers for ADHD in childhood? Because that’s a really important aspect of receiving a diagnosis in adulthood. Is symptoms before the age of 12?

Andrea Ashley 42:22
I don’t, I

Kristen Carder 42:24
don’t remember. Okay, that’s fair.

Andrea Ashley 42:25
I don’t really feel like there were symptoms, like when I was a kid, you really don’t I mean, granted, I understand that, like drugs, like using drugs and alcohol can be like, as a, as a kid could be, you know, a sign of something. But like, no, and even like, in college, never had issues studying. Never had issues with time management, any of that stuff. It is it is all just been through the phone. And I mean, it really can change your brain. Yeah. So what when I had my assessment, I mean, the only way that my like, Rishi gave me a moderate diagnosis of ADHD, but the, what she was basing that off of was, there were certain, whatever they are, like, parts of the assessment, I was, like scoring as like, like, moderate, or like, you know, average or whatever. And she was saying that, she’s comparing that to everything else, where I was, like, exceeding. And so that’s why she felt like that there was because there was like, these certain areas where I’m just like, kind of at, like average, and then there’s, but everything else was showing, like, you know, exceeding average or whatever. But

Kristen Carder 43:46
it’s like the gap between what you’re doing really well and what you’re performing well, and then like the lower levels, so sometimes they look at the discrepancy between the two. Mm hmm. Fascinating. Can you please name that book for us one more time, because I missed it. And then

Andrea Ashley 44:04
we’ll talk smartphone dumpshome I don’t think it’s really any good for like, telling you how to treat it, but it’s done a good job of like, explaining, like the digital addiction part of it. And it’s like, I don’t get sucked into either social media either, which is interesting. But it’s, it’s like the Candy Crush. And all these books, they just talk about Candy Crush is always the example like, King games you can get. And the other thing too is I also have like, like an information addiction thing to kind of going on. And I need to like listen to like, everything’s gotta be intense, like I need like murder trials or like drama or this or that. And so it’s just been interesting to observe. I’m definitely making progress. But there is a part of me that really does He has a hard time viewing it as an addiction. And also, it’s really hard dealing with all this stuff when you like live alone. Yes,

Kristen Carder 45:09
the lack of accountability. I think about that all the time. If I didn’t live with my husband, I would struggle so much more than I do. Truly.

Andrea Ashley 45:22
Yeah, so I’m just saying that like, I don’t like I got I, I mean, I feel so much embarrassment talking about any shit. So I hope that somebody is able to, like, you know, relate and feel like a little bit less shame by me. Yeah, by me sharing this and like saying this because I know that this, I know that this is such a, this is such a thing now. Right? And for the device, design our phones to do this to us. Yeah.

Kristen Carder 45:46
You know, just know, myself, and no one listening to this podcast has any room to judge anybody. And we know that like, we’ve been through it. My people and I, we’ve been through it, whether it’s addiction, whether it’s shame, like all of the things, there’s nothing that you could ever say that would shock me. So I know can crush addiction. Owning care?

Andrea Ashley 46:14
Yeah, God, it’s really, really frustrating. Yeah,

Kristen Carder 46:18
I bet. It’s interesting to me that it almost doesn’t seem like a legitimate addiction in your mind. It doesn’t. That’s really I bet that’s a part of it. Like that’s a thing. Because to me, it seems legitimate. Like that. Intense that’s that’s a real deal. Yeah,

Andrea Ashley 46:43
I mean, like I said, I think it’s, it’s, it’s very hard for me, because there’s not, there’s not that like euphoric aspect. That really makes it difficult for me to, to see it as such. But like, it absolutely is. Yeah. You know, and I think too, like, I don’t think Cove I think COVID probably didn’t help. Yeah, just kind of be more isolated, for sure. But this is something that’s been a problem, like for a while. And I guess that there’s a part of me that’s like, wow, look at all the success that you’ve had, in spite of having like a horrible phone addiction the whole time.

Kristen Carder 47:19
Yeah. Tell me about the work that you do inside of your program. So you have your podcast, which is excellent. I highly recommend it. And then you have your

Andrea Ashley 47:33
community, your community. Tom, so we just have, so it’s called a shitshow. Yes, yes. And

Kristen Carder 47:40
why is it called the shitshow? Andrea, like I just love it. You because

Andrea Ashley 47:45
I think I just growing on, I think I think on my very first episode, I referred to myself as a shit show. Yeah. And then just kind of took off and love it, and became a thing. So. So there is the 12 step community, adult children of alcoholics in dysfunctional families. And so this is not like we’re not affiliated with that or anything. What I found was that it was hard for me to find quality meetings. I felt like there was a lot of like, I don’t know like in in AAA, there’s a lot more of an ability to find like humor in our in our stories and in our pain. And I found that a lot of adult child meetings were kind of doom and gloomy. And almost like kind of victime in a way. But so I host, we have four groups a week, or more than that, but similar to like a 12 step meeting, but less structure, a little bit looser, a little bit more of a personality. But what I think is really cool is so like within our within the app, there’s all these various like sub groups within it. So there’s all these different like, discussion boards on particular topics that people might be dealing with, whether that’s there’s a group for those who are childhood sexual abuse survivors. There’s one that’s for shitshow parenting so people that are parenting with complex PTSD, there’s one for people that are healing from narcissistic abuse. There’s a neurodivergent group, there is a like a dual diagnosis. So though suffering from like bipolar or other issues like that, there’s the shitshow dudes group. So I think that that’s really what’s valuable is all these kind of more unique or individualized issues that people might be, might be dealing with. But it’s really just amazing because it’s people really just feel comfortable showing up as themselves. Like there’s no there’s no shame or blame. Just the connections that people have been able to make, it’s just really been. It’s really cool.

Kristen Carder 49:56
There’s so much evidence for healing happening. In community, and it’s so encouraging and like, offers me so much hope to see these communities popping up where people can experience healing. Because we need it. You are a mess. Like as a society, we are a mess. And the amount of people that I speak to on a daily basis, who are dealing with so much, it’s out of this world. So I just am so glad that, like, that’s just another wonderful, beautiful place for people to go to be themselves to find healing in community.

Andrea Ashley 50:41
Well, what I like to say is like, all of this is like relational trauma, right? So we have to heal this stuff, like in relationship, like in safe relationships. Yeah. And so this is like a place where, where you can do so. And that is, you’re not going to heal like this stuff fully. Unless there is a community aspect of it. There’s only so much that you can do on your own. Totally, I think too, there’s only so much you can do. There’s only so much self awareness, too, that you can have on your own. I think that you need to be in community with other people. And hear them talking about their stuff that’s coming up in order for you also to be able to have a clearer picture as far as what’s going on with you, you know, yeah. So tell me about what’s what have you had any more insights? Or Aha, oz? Oh, girl.

Kristen Carder 51:40
Yes, I mean, it’s been so interesting, because we had a conversation in I believe it was March or April of last year. And I was just coming out of a very intense period with my family of origin. And having made some, like really intense decisions. And when we spoke, I felt like, I felt like I was like a deer in headlights, like, really not being able to speak authentically, because I was so really just traumatized by by the experience. And then the last year, and I guess almost a year and a half, being able to grieve, and lay in bed and cry and heal. And I have done most of that before. I did a lot of that like leading up to it. But the freedom and the release, and the relief that I have been able to experience in the last year and a half has been incredible. And my biggest aha, I would say are just the profound impact that my childhood has had on me. And I just, I, I hate that. I don’t know why it’s such like a tender and vulnerable thing. And for me, like my coping mechanisms were always to close up and to detach and to dissociate. And so my work in the last five years has been to connect, and to reattach to notice what I’m dissociating to bring myself back to not let myself escape into just like the disconnection. And that work is not fun. I don’t like it. Like I, I would almost go too far to say like, I wouldn’t recommend it like I in that, like, it’s not fun, you know, but what it’s allowed me to do is connect myself for the first time ever. To the point where now at 43 I feel grounded, I feel solid in who I am, for the first time ever. And I think I always present it as a confident person. But I know that that was a coping mechanism and built on like a very wobbly platform of dissociation and detachment. So I really I always had a big personality. I always I was the girl who just like I didn’t care like people. I was just that girl that just didn’t care except deep down. I always cared I cared so much and I was obsessive about caring about what people thought about my performance about the people in my life and like feeling responsible to care for their emotions and like now to be able to own that I really do care so much and I’m also very grounded in in who I am. That feels how does that feel that feels just so rooted. I just like I can’t describe enough like just like having deep roots and not feeling like I’m being blown by every little thing that comes my way. And I have three kids like I’m parenting a 16 year old. And it’s so triggering because when I was 16 Oh my gosh, it was a very difficult season, I have a 16 of 14 and 10 year olds, and just parenting them at their different ages has been the most triggering thing for me ever. Most triggering because I’m teleported back to how I was parented in those moments. Yeah, so that’s just me going on and on. But yes, all the OS is

Andrea Ashley 55:38
so interesting. Just how much people comes up through parenting. I’m curious if I wonder if at all, because so much of your identity has been like tied to like having ADHD, like, I wonder if there wasn’t any of that to like, click, I don’t want to have like this, like dysfunctional family aspect, like thrown in there as well. I wonder if there was, that’s so interesting, if any of that was going on.

Kristen Carder 56:04
I like even though my work is built off of having ADHD, I don’t carry that as like a part of who you are. Yeah, like I do in that, like, I know, it affects every aspect of my life. But it’s not something I think about all day, every day. It’s not something that I present to people. It’s not something I talk about much. I am here to, like, help people with ADHD. But when I was uncovering complex trauma, that thought of like, is it complex trauma? Is it ADHD? Like I wrestled with that for a long time? And my answer is just Yes. It’s both like, there’s no way to untangle it. I want to let everyone know, as a resource, Patrick, TN has this toxic family test. I’ll link it in the show notes. And it’s so interesting, because I sent it to my sisters, I have two sisters, and I send it to my sisters. And I was like, let’s take this separately, and like, see what we get. And we all scored in the 90s. And it was just the most there’s something about feeling like a maybe I’m making all this up. Maybe I’m like, maybe it’s me, like there was this self gaslighting that took place for several years of like, I’m probably the problem. And maybe I’m making everything up. And maybe it wasn’t as bad as I thought it was, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. But when you hand this test to like your siblings, and say, like, let’s not talk about it, but let’s take the test and then share the results. And we all score in the 90s, which was like 90 out of 100. Hold on, I have it here. Yeah, 90 out of 100, which is like severe extreme, like off the charts, toxicity. And to have that that actually is something that I go back to over and over because it’s like, I am not making this up. And that’s been really helpful. That’s been really, really helpful. Wow, did you take that test? Have you taken it? No,

Andrea Ashley 58:15
I haven’t. I have to look at it. I mean, it’s not like I have some sort of question about that part. That’s the

Kristen Carder 58:22
thing is that you had quote, unquote, privilege of knowing that your family was toxic. And I found that out in my 30s. So I was like, Wait, excuse me.

Andrea Ashley 58:30
Why? No, but I’d be I’d be very interested to see. It’s also what’s hard for me is that like, my family is a lot more toxic now than it was when I was a kid.

Kristen Carder 58:41
Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. We have so much more that we could talk about. But what I really want you to do is tell people where to find you and how they can maybe get connected to the shit show community.

Andrea Ashley 58:55
Yeah, so adult child anywhere in everywhere, adult child pod on social media, but but you can find the podcast adult child on anywhere you find podcasts I’ve been trying to put more on, on YouTube. Yeah. And so on Saturdays, that is where I either do that show Saturdays. So I either interview a member of my community, or I’ll share a like a recent recording from one of our support groups. So I don’t record them all. I just sometimes record them if I’m going to use them. I get people’s permission to like unit, their shares, or all sometimes do episodes on kind of those specific issues that I was talking about before. So sometimes I’ll have a couple of moms on to talk about, like what it’s like to parent with complex PTSD, or I recently just had some people on talking about their use of using psychedelics as part of the healing process. So I think that that’s just a good way to get a like a snapshot or an inside look into the type of community that it is and as I like to say like I am acquired taste. I’m not for everyone. We like to joke around and have fun. It’s probably not the right place for somebody who’s hypersensitive or, and that’s just not a diss on anyone. But you know what I mean? Like, I’m not for everyone, folks.

Kristen Carder 1:00:17
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I love it so much. We’ll link all of that in the show notes. And I feel like you and I could just talk for hours about all of this, but I just really want to recommend your podcast especially obviously, like, I have listened to so many episodes and the guests that you interview are just like top notch. So anyone who is relating to this complex PTSD Convo, head over there to adult child and Andrew and go read

Andrea Ashley 1:00:47
the laundry list, folks, you should put that in your show notes too. Yep,

Kristen Carder 1:00:51
I will pop that into the show notes as well. That’s from the same website that I was reading be am I an adult child questions, so we’ll have that free in the show notes as well. My friends groobie Cool, lady, I like you. I think you’re great. Hey, ADHD, or I see you I know exactly what it’s like to feel lost, confused, frustrated, and like no one out there really understand the way that your brain works. That’s why I created Focus. Focus is my monthly coaching program where I lead you through a step by step process of understanding yourself feeling better and creating the life that you know you’re meant for. You’ll study be coached, grow, and make amazing changes alongside of other educated professional adults with ADHD from all over the world. Visit Ihaveadhd.com/focused to learn more

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