Podcast Episode #18: How The HECK Do I Organize? With Professional Organizer, Laura Brooke

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About This Episode

In this episode, Laura Brooke, professional organizer (who has ADHD) gives us all the practical steps to organizing our space. Think that ADHD and organization don’t mix? Think again! You can be organized. Organization is a talent for some, but it’s also a skill that can be developed by the rest of us who are just naturally messy people. And of course, Laura was kind enough to put a free printable download together for us. BECAUSE SHE ROCKS. This thing is so practical – print it out and hang it up on your wall to refer to as you tackle your clutter!

Transcript

Laura Brook 2:34
It felt so thank you. Yeah, and that’s, that’s a huge benefit, right? Like someone kind of coming in and you have the chance to detach a little bit because it’s not my thing. I don’t get that emotional response that you get from your things. I don’t get the anxiety that you get when you see a pile of your things, and it’s a little scary, you know? I don’t get that. It’s literally just me problem solving and trying to work it out with you, and suggesting things and trying to figure out what’s going to work for you. And, yeah, right, it’s literally like someone kind of coming in and taking over and helping. I

Kristen Carder 3:13
felt like it was hand holding, like you were hand you were just holding my hand through the whole process, but also kind of like, okay, come on. Let’s make a decision. Let’s go, which I really, really needed. I really needed. So okay, so you come to my house, and it was the first time we met. It was lovely. We just, like, chatted for a bit, and then you’re like, Okay, let’s get to work. So we go downstairs into, you know, the dreaded closet of shame. And I, of course, feel shame for even opening the closet door, and that was a huge thing for me. Was like, it didn’t scare you at all. It was nothing. No, like, Okay, I’ve

Laura Brook 3:51
seen everything, no something. I’ve seen worse. I’ve seen way, way, way worse. And then, do you remember the first kind of things you were saying when we first looked in the closet, do you remember? No, the and you this is the same as everybody. It’s a little weird showing someone you don’t really know a space like that, right? So the number one thing is you start like, kind of making excuses, not in a bad way, but you’re just like, oh, this is like, this because, or you explain, like, over explain, and I actually find it adorable when people shoot that, because I’m like, I’m like, no, like, this is your reaction. Like, I don’t have that. Like, there’s no judgment, you know, we’re all, I’m when I look at it, I’m seeing, okay, this is how we’re going to tackle this, right? And you’re like, ah, someone’s seeing all my, you know, items that is in my shame closet, you know, but I don’t, it’s not a shameful closet to me. I’m I see it all cleared out because that was the goal, you know. Oh,

Kristen Carder 4:50
I love that, and that was the first step. So you just said, Okay, we’re going to take everything out and we’re going to put it in the family room. And I was like, wait. What,

Laura Brook 5:01
yeah. You were like, like, all of it,

Kristen Carder 5:05
like, yeah, everything or what. And you’re like, yes, all of it, and it really, it did not take long. And you said that, you’re like, it’s not going to take long, because immediately I’m thinking, we should quit. Now, this is too hard, and it’s the first step. I’m like, I can’t do it.

Laura Brook 5:22
Right? No, what what happened was you were like, Oh, this is going to take four hours. And then, you know, you had that realization set in there. Like, yeah, I’m done.

Kristen Carder 5:32
So we cleared it out, and then what did we do? You started, you said, Let’s make three piles, right? Can you walk me through? Yeah, I don’t even remember

Laura Brook 5:40
Yes. So we started keep pile, obviously, things that you know your family wants and needs and that function for you, like no brainers, right? So we have a key pile, then we have the giveaway pile. It’s either crap or stuff that you you know, either trash, things that you definitely want to donate, or stuff that you’re like, Yeah, we definitely don’t need that anymore. Or I’ve already replaced this in my home. You know, those easy decisions. But the most important part is what I call the maybe pile. And this is an efficiency and productivity thing, and what that does is, and I’ll kind of break down the psychology of it too, of what I’ve noticed, I don’t have any case studies or anything, but just what I’ve noticed the maybe pile is so important, because if you are making a series of decisions, and you’re taking that extra 30 seconds to make that decision for every single one of the maybes, that is so draining. So what we do is we forget about the maybe pile. We just throw it in there if you if it’s not an easy decision, we put it away, because you are going to get discouraged a lot faster if you’re having a hard time. So we the the thought process is, Let’s clear out all the easy stuff. First, because one, it’s easier. Two, it saves time, and three, it creates more morale because you’re making easy decisions. The psychology is that you are happy because you’re like, Oh, well, I’m making all these decisions, and you really are and you should be. It’s not just a trick or anything, right? But at the same time, we are saving so much time by not stopping for every maybe while we go we are clearing out the room with all the easy stuff. But here’s the best part, when you make all of those easy decisions, you go into the maybes so much more confident, because you just made, like, 1000 decisions, and they were easy. And it’s a psychological thing. You’re, you basically trick your brain like, Okay, I’m I’ve already made so many decisions. I’m good at this, and then you’re ready. That’s how it works. So that, especially if you have ADHD, just throw it in the maybe pile. Don’t worry about it. Don’t make any hard decisions if you don’t have to. And I know all the ADHD people are like, Yeah, that sounds good to me. Also, I have ADHD, and I would lose my mind if I was sitting there with somebody and they were struggling through every decision, right? So it’s kind of for me too. It’s a little selfish,

Kristen Carder 8:12
yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that patience part right on your end, like, Come on, let’s

Laura Brook 8:17
go. Right? So is not only for me, it’s for you, but also it, there’s something about it, like it’s, it’s something that I will totally admit I did selfishly at first as an organizer, and then I started to see that it improved the process so much more for so many reasons, including the self confidence of, like, oh, wow, I’m good at making decisions now, like something, things that people were dreading. That’s what everyone dreads, is the decision making. Am I going to keep this? Am I going to get rid of it? Decluttering is not easy, too. And I want to point out to any ADHD ers who have tons of stuff that if you read a book like you know about sparking joy and not naming any names, and it acts like it’s going to be really easy and joyful. I want you to know that it’s not going to be and you should not be prepared for it to be easy, because then you’re definitely not going to finish it. Because it’s not going to be easy. Nothing is easy, especially if you have ADHD, but nothing is easy, but also the hard things you do are so much more rewarding when you finish them. Now,

Kristen Carder 9:26
one thing you did with me was encourage me to get rid of as much as possible. Do you do that with all your clients, or was it just obvious that I needed to

Laura Brook 9:36
so well? I mean, honestly, every client is so different. I do that with the clients that I think need it, and it’s very typical that most ADHD clients do need that. But I would say most of my clients from all backgrounds need that because we from birth, are bombarded with brands and items. And things, and everywhere you go, there’s something to buy. And our parents raised us with tons of toys, and now we have kids who have, like, way more toys than we had, and we had way too many toys. And you know, so really, it’s something that everyone’s struggling with right now, and it’s a need that I see, and I want to point out, too that the goal for anyone with ADHD for getting organized should be to have and this is the one of the only things that works across the board, because this would work for anyone anywhere. The simpler it is, the easier is to do. So if you have less stuff, it’s going to be easier to keep up with it. And also, we’ve been talking about responsibility. Taking responsibility for your items is just as important as taking responsibility for where you are right now and where you want to be, because this is something that we never think about with ADHD, but everything in your home you own and you’re responsible for maintaining, and if you look at it like that, when you’re making those decisions, when you’re decluttering, like, do I need this? You know, when you’re going through that, maybe pile that’s a little harder think things like, Do I want to take the time to deal with this later, like, whenever I need to maintain it, whatever the item is, you know, if it’s, if it’s something that’s just being thrown in your garage, you know that that deeper storage that we do, chances are you probably don’t need it, unless it’s, you know, something that has to do with outdoor but something that’s like, oh, I’ll just throw it in the garage. Just take that time to deal with it while you’re decluttering, because you don’t want to shift around your clutter, of course, which is the goal, and that’s really something I push because I don’t want to come in and shift around your clutter either. I want to actually help you. Do you know what I mean? So that’s my thing. Do you want to take the time at a later date to go through this again and make this decision? You know? Think about it in the way that we do so well in the big picture, when you’re decluttering, but ask yourself the right questions, do I want to take time on this later? When’s the last time I used it? Am I going to use it again? Am I only worried about this because I spent a lot of money on it? You know, think about things like that, and you know, there’s so many questions you can ask yourself, but if you know while you’re decluttering, once again, going back to knowing yourself, if you know your end goal, you also will know the right questions to ask when you’re decluttering, because everyone is decluttering for different reasons. You were decluttering to clear up the closet for home renovations, which are so exciting, so you have a little motivation, because you’re getting, you know, you’re you’re getting a brand new laundry room, and that’s amazing, but sometimes the decluttering is for not as fun goals, and it’s a lot harder to make those decisions. But you also have to know your goal. And if the if you’re decluttering for the sake of just getting organized, it can be a little more boring, so you have to know the questions you’re going to ask yourself and make that plan, like write them down look at a piece of paper while you’re doing it, if

Kristen Carder 13:08
you need to. So good. Yeah. So let’s talk about the items that we’ve purchased impulsively, that we feel regret for buying, or that we feel regret for not using like we thought we’d use it, or we talked ourselves into like, oh yeah, I’ll totally use this, but then we end up right, not using it right, or like me, you know, that thing that I ordered from Amazon that I forgot to return, and now It’s too late, and now I have it, and it’s brand new, but it didn’t fit anyway, or, you know, it wasn’t whatever something that I actually needed. And so now I have this brand new item, and I feel so guilty either donating it or, you know, throwing it out or whatever. So like, talk to me about that, because you and I had a very long conversation about this, yes,

Laura Brook 14:02
so that is total human nature. It’s something that I share with my clients, and no one’s ever heard of this. And I would like to shout out to my husband who taught me this. He was a philosophy undergrad major, so he actually shared this with me when I was explaining the same, this same scenario, and how, like, every single one of my clients was feeling this, and he goes, Oh, yeah. Have you ever read up on stunk cost fallacy? And I’m like, what? Like, I’ve never heard of it, of course. And I’m like, oh. And I read it, and I was like, oh, like, ding ding, ding, ding, ding. You know, the light bulb went off. I was all excited, and I started sharing it with my clients. I shared it with you. Totally changed your life, right? I mean, maybe not your life, okay? So what the sunk cost fallacy is, is it is a logical fallacy that most humans experience, and what happens is the the fallacy. Is that you give worth to items or things in your life based on the amount of time you’ve put into it or the amount of money that you’ve put into it. But the problem, and the fallacy is that it’s emotional value, so it’s not real value, and that’s the fallacy it is. It is holding on to things just because you did something and it created a value. So whether it’s $50 or $2 you put value on it because it’s been so So basically, the longer something sits in your home, the harder it is to deal with it. And that’s the logical fallacy, and I see it all the time, and some things are easier for people than others. So like some some people, there’s a whole room, and they’re like, just throw it all out. I don’t want to see anything in there. But then we get to another area, and it’s something that’s, you know, more emotional for them, and that’s where the fallacy kicks in. And they know it’s worthless, or they know it’s, you know, they know deep down they should get rid of it, but, but it’s like you said, some sort of guilt or really, it’s value, and it’s fake value that they’ve put on it. So when you take once again, we’re talking about getting out of your headspace, and it’s the best thing for you when you have ADHD, if you’re like, Oh, I know, I know I’m never going to use this again, but what am I supposed to do? I mean, I spent $50 on it, and that’s been sitting here. Well, if you can take yourself out of that headspace and realize, oh, wow, I put emotional value on this based on dollars, but this thing is huge, and I know I’m never going to use it, and I need the space right there. Okay, get rid of it, right? You’ve unlocked the fallacy.

Kristen Carder 16:46
I love it, and then it becomes a no brainer. I

Laura Brook 16:49
love it too. It improved my life, not only, you know, my own, you know, things with with my children and all of that, but everyone I’ve shared it with it. It made it that much easier to declutter those harder items, the maybe piles, you know, yeah,

Kristen Carder 17:07
yeah, sure, that was huge for me, and I, I am still kind of processing that, because I think we do that with so many things. And I actually, my friend, was so inspired that I started to declutter my kids room, and I started with the bookshelf. And you know, there are some books in really good condition that they’re just not interested in, but I have assigned value to them because I’ve spent money on them or because they were given to them as a gift, but they’re not interested in writing them, so they’re just taking up space. And it was really amazing for me to be able to think through that concept of like, I’m assigning value that it actually doesn’t have it’s valuable if we use it all the time, if we don’t use it all the time, then it’s not valuable, right?

Laura Brook 17:53
Exactly, and we all and that’s another part of knowing yourself, right? You have to define what you value, and that’s a great thing that you learn going through the decluttering process. Totally never decluttered before. You just kind of shifted your stuff around. There’s a good chance that you don’t even really know, especially if you have ADHD, because we’re not always thinking about the right things. While we’re doing something right, we’re thinking about everything else, but what we’re doing that, you know that’s something that you have to learn you don’t if I don’t know about anyone but me, personally, I didn’t know what I valued personally until I started decluttering myself, but in a more purposeful way, so taking that time to get to know what my goals were and things like that, and then especially now, people almost every day doing this. It’s something that you have to learn about yourself, because we it’s something that we don’t know. You don’t know what you value. If you’ve never asked yourself, am I going to throw this away? Do I need it? You know, the more questions you ask, the better. And it’s very interesting what people value. And I am, while I am judgment free, I am always like, Oh, interesting. They’re getting rid of that. It’s always some I find it kind of exciting to see what other people value and or don’t value. Like, sometimes I’m shocked, like, I’ve had people, you know, I do consignment at times for my clients, you know, for the higher price items, and for me, that’s just the way to divert things out of landfill. So I actually like doing that. But sometimes they’ll be like, Oh, I only wore it once, but I don’t even care about it. Just, you know, just get rid of it. Just donate it. And it’s like, you know, like a $900 handbag. And I’m like, Are you crazy? You know what I mean. It always fascinates me. But then there’s other people who have literally a $5 handbag, and they’re like, No, I’m never going to use it again. But no, you know, it’s very interesting. Oh my gosh, it’s I, really, I, I feel like I just took, you know, I became a therapist and a, you know, just like associate. Ologist At the same time. Totally, it’s funny. I know, so

Kristen Carder 20:03
fascinating,

Laura Brook 20:05
how attached

Kristen Carder 20:06
we are to our stuff and how

Laura Brook 20:09
and the weird stuff like, not even attached to like, what you would think, right? And everyone’s

Kristen Carder 20:15
so different. Yes, that is so true, that is true. And also how our home, like how we choose to live, defines who we are. And I think you know what you’re saying about knowing your goals. That goes back to my whole thing on like living with vision, right? So that applies to every area of your life, and I think your home and space that is huge. Like, who am I when it comes to my stuff? Who do I want to be? Who what kind of stuff do I want to have, and what kind of stuff do I not want to allow into my home? Like, for me, for example, those, like, Happy Meal toys, like, that’s a hard no from me, you know, like, we’re not. Those do not come in my home, but things like that, where it’s like, I make conscious decisions, but I had to first define who I was, who I wanted to be, and what I wanted my stuff to like, you know, my space to look like. But still, even then, the closet of shame, you know, creeps in, right?

Laura Brook 21:19
But you told us, I mean, part of that decision making process was, this is junk, and I don’t want to deal with it later, so you ask yourself the right questions. I mean, you might have not consciously asked like that, but you knew this is junk coming in. It’s my kids aren’t even going to play with it, right? It just needs to go and, you know, go away before it even gets home. And that’s great. And that’s like, that’s part of the mindful things that we can do, and I call it mindful consumption, and it’s one of the best ways to combat and having a clutter issue is starting from the source clutter is not saying we’re not foragers anymore. In case you didn’t realize, every thing that you own in your home, that’s clutter you paid for or you allowed someone to give to you, even if you didn’t want it, right? So we’re out there creating our own clutter. You have to take responsibility for it, and the best way to do that, and the best way to prevent it in the future, is by knowing your game plan, knowing when to say no. You know what, I’m probably not going to read that book. I don’t want to borrow it. I mean, how many times have you been asked like, Oh, do you want to borrow this? This was amazing. And in your head, you’re like, No, not really. And you’re like, Yeah, sure. I mean, we all do that totally, but it’s okay, so knowing when to say no for your own benefit. Okay, just say, oh, you know what, I probably, I probably wouldn’t read that like it looks really cool and all, and I’m so happy you enjoyed it. But you know, just things like that, like find a nice way to say it, or if you’re someone who really struggles with saying, No, this is a tip I always give, especially ADHD say, You know what, let me think about that. And then you get yourself out of the situation, and then you also have time to prepare how you’re going to say no, nicely. I love it. Yeah,

Kristen Carder 23:08
that’s so good, right? Because yes comes out of our mouth, and we’re like, why am I saying yes? Like, I can see myself saying yes. I’m like, why am I saying yes? Right? Now, I don’t even know

Laura Brook 23:18
the impulses. We didn’t even make that decision, but if you prepare for things like that, it comes out, you say, oh, you know what? Let me think about that. And I always say that, like

Kristen Carder 23:28
people’s homes that you go to, where you are given things regularly, right? We can all know in our heads, and they’re lovely, like, we love you people who give us stuff. But like, Yeah, well,

Laura Brook 23:41
if you can actually, let me just like, clarify too, if you can actually use something and it’s going to be beneficial to you, please take it. I’m not telling you. Don’t nothing’s ever allowed to come into your house again. I just want you to make the conscious decision that’s best for you personally, best for your future and best with your, you know, big plan of what you want. If you want a minimalist house, you know, you’re pretty much gonna have to say no to everybody, yeah. But if you’re someone who is more function, that’s great, too. And your question should be, am I going to be able to use it? Do I have space for it? Do I have room for it? Or if you really want it and you don’t have space for it, it can be, what am I going to get rid of to make space for it? So I’m not saying you can never take anything again, but think about it like you’re, you know, managing inventory or something like that. I mean, if it’s not hard to do, and there’s actually apps that can help you do that with your home, if you want to, but, you know, think about what your goal is. Now I also want to point out to that if your goal is esthetic, if you are a visual person, and it makes you feel really good to have a home that looks really good, yeah, I don’t want you to think that I’m against that either, because sometimes it comes off as that, because, like, earlier, I was, you know, talking crap on Pinterest and everything. Thing. I just want to point out that if that’s what makes you feel really good and being and you’re organized and it looks good, and you didn’t just throw everything in a closet somewhere. You didn’t, you know, create a closet of shame so that your house could look like that, right then that is what your goal should be. And I’m all for that. And you should have a beautiful space that you love. I just want to point out that having the beautiful space isn’t the end all be all it might be for certain people, but I just don’t want the people who aren’t even, don’t even care about esthetics to worry about that, because I find people doing that. I love it. The first thing they say is, Well, should we go like what should I buy all the time, all the time, like we’re on the phone, I haven’t even seen their space yet, and they’re like, Well, what? What should I get to be organized? And my answer is always the same, well, probably nothing nice. You probably don’t need anything. And normally, if they’ve asked me that they’ve already bought too much of those things anyway, and we can make do with what they have. But you know, that’s why knowing what you want, what’s going to benefit you personally, is so important, and you have to figure out what that is. And it’s hard for me to sit here and really help any of your listeners, but if you can do that, that’s going to help, and I and whatever that may be, you have to figure out how to get there. I love it, and it sucks. The journey is hard. The journey is

Kristen Carder 26:23
hard. But the thing is, being prepared for that journey is so amazing, like thinking that it’s going to be easy and then getting mad that it’s not, that’s what sucks, right? But like, if you know, like, Okay, this is going to be hard, but I’m going to spend 10 minutes doing this hard thing. Like, we’re grown ups. We can do that. We can do the hard things. Map out

Laura Brook 26:43
your day. Say, You know what? This is probably going to take me a couple hours. So Monday, I’m going to do 20 minutes, and Wednesday, I’m going to do 40 minutes, because I get homework early that day. And then Friday night, you know, I’m always a little tired, so that day, I’ll do 10 and that’s like 10 minutes, you know, and that adds up to an hour, yeah, that you work through a week. So that’s what people you know, plan it like that, but plan it also how you’re likely going to be if you know, you’re always tired on Friday night, don’t plan anything on that night, or just give yourself a small chunk, you know, things like that. Being realistic is so important. I love it.

Kristen Carder 27:20
So what would you say if someone were to ask you, well, actually, that someone is me, how would I do it? What are the top three to five things that anybody can do to live a more organized life? What? What would you say to that?

Laura Brook 27:40
Okay, so the number one thing, and I briefly touched on this earlier, is being proactive. Like I said, the mindful consumption, especially if you have ADHD, we can’t handle a lot of things in a small area, or an or too many things in a space, whatever the size is. It’s very hard for us. So like I said, and it works for anyone anywhere, the less you have to deal with the easier it is to take care of it. So the way you do that is after. You know before and after, but while you’re going through your giant declutter session, if that’s what you have to do, be thinking about the mindful consumption, because it’s so important evaluate every purchase. Please. Don’t you know, if you struggle at Target, you got to stop going there. You have to, if you go in and you’re like, I’m only going to get this and it’s $20 and you come out and it’s $150 you should not go there because they are really good. And you know what? Also get out of your head space. They do that on purpose. You don’t think they’ve done all of this on purpose, like the corporation of target is there to get you to spend $200 or more every time you’re there. And they’re really good at it, yeah? So that’s another thing. Don’t pretend like, Oh, I just, you know, just pick this up. It just, I don’t know. I just impulse buy whatever. Yeah, look at each store and understand that they are actually manipulating you at your weakest moments to buy things. Why do you think they put five and under at the at the checkout? Everything at a checkout is $5 and under, and there’s a reason for that. It’s because you’re in the checkout line. You’re just standing there, you’re bored, and we have ADHD, and what do we do? We pick stuff up, and we’re looking at it. We don’t need any of it, you know, do I really need gum? No, you don’t need gum, but you’re like, looking at it, and then you all of a sudden, you’re picking out which flavor you want. Yeah, you’re not even thinking about it. So that’s what I’m saying, not only mindful consumption, but understand that marketing is targeted against you, and that’s something to really understand. It really is marketing, and it’s something that all business owners do. And I think if any of you own a business, you when you were. Researching, marketing your own company, you learn so much about the world, and it all opened up because you have to realize that everything is there on purpose. In every store, everything was placed there on purpose to get you to buy it. Yeah, everything. So look at it that way. Get out of your head space. Be mindful, just like decluttering those questions, do I need it if I don’t have space for this? Do I have something else I can get rid of to create the space? Am I actually going to use it? What about is this valuable? Like is, do I already have three white t shirts? You might have the space for it, but if you already have three white t shirts, but this t shirt is only $5 No, it’s, you don’t need it. Like, think, get out of your head space. And also, discounts and sales are also very common to manipulate buyers as well, because, oh, it’s on sale. You and also, I, I’ve been there, we kind of get a little dopamine hit from getting a good sale. Do you totally,

Kristen Carder 30:59
totally, yeah, right. And then, like, you saved money, except you spent money. It feels good, yeah? Well, you have

Laura Brook 31:07
to understand evolutionarily we come from, you know when, when we had to kind of hunt and gather, and there’s this evolutionary side to to all of marketing, but we won’t go into that, but yes, so see it as it is. Understand that everything’s placed there to get you to buy it, and then ask yourself those questions. So that’s step one. Is being proactive. Don’t bring like, like you said with the McDonald’s Happy Meal toys, right? Just don’t let it in. If it’s if it adds no value to your life, don’t do it. But also, there’s another way to think about things too. What you’re purchasing, is it healthy? Is it adding value to your spiritual health, to your mental health? So let’s talk about digital purchases, those $5 and under apps that you really don’t need. You know, it’s the same thing. It’s probably not going to add much to your life. It might, it might, and if it does, you should buy it if it’s something that is improving you and your health and your life. And let’s talk about food too, right? Oh my gosh, same thing. How much money do we waste on crap food? But it’s the same thing. You can apply these principles to any area of your life, and that’s why organizing, to me, is so fun. I know you once again, I’m crazy, I know, but it’s so fun, because this is the fundamentals of life. Everything I’m saying you can apply to every other area in your life, and the home so often, is a mirror of what’s going on inside your head. And that is exactly why a lot of us have very messy homes. Our head is very messy. So how do you combat that? You don’t just shuffle your clutter around. You get out of your head space and you organize your head first. You figure out who you are, what you want, where you’re going, where you want to go, and make sure it’s realistic in the first place. Like if you’re trying to lose weight, your goal isn’t to look like J Lo, it’s to be your best self. Well, organizing is the same way. You don’t pick up a specific picture, you you figure out how your home can be a better version for you and how it’s going to benefit you. And so that leads me to the second thing, like I just said, to understand yourself and what you want better, because that’s something that we struggle with so much with ADHD, and you might need a therapist to help you with this. You might have to talk through this stuff with somebody, and I don’t want you to be discouraged if you are hearing this stuff and you’re like, I don’t know what I want. And that’s very common. I mean, most people that call me to help them, they have, they have no they never even thought about it before. They knew they needed help, but they never even thought, oh, what’s, what’s my end game here? You know, they didn’t even get there. So it’s very, very common. Don’t be discouraged. I know sometimes we can take that if we are, you know, not doing everything like we’re already pros, but definitely take the time understand yourself. Take the time to figure out what you want. That’s okay if you if it takes some time to figure out, you might even start and not totally know what you’re looking for, but you can figure out, figure it out on the way, as long as you have some sort of goal in mind that’s going to help you kind of get through those arcs. As we talked about, when you’re coming down, you still need a goal to get you over those arcs. So don’t just definitely, if you don’t know where you want to go, just figure out a smaller goal in the meantime and just work towards that. So that’s one step, and then basically focus on the habits and routines more than anything. This is the biggest thing, especially if you have ADHD and you want to get organized. We are creatures of movement, and the best way to combat the movement that isn’t going to help us is to create healthy habits. And like I said, you can use the one touch rule. There’s other things that people do like they write like for me, I write down and outline my whole day because. Because I was telling you this in person, I there’s a lot of things about me that aren’t typical ADHD, even though I am very I mean, I was told I was the poster child, and in a lot of ways I am, but I’m kind of a walking constitution. But one way I’m extremely weird, and I had to find a workaround, is that before I was medicated for ADHD as an adult, I was on time for everything. Always. I was to the T I was early. If I wasn’t, I got all anxious and I was well. Now that I’m medicated, I am actually late all the time, and it’s something that I’ve never had to work on. And I know it makes no sense, but here’s what I figured out. I think, when I was not medicated, I was never fully focusing on on the things that I was supposed to be focusing on. I always knew what time it was, so I was prepared in my head. I was always thinking about my next step, so I knew, Oh, in 10 minutes, I have to get ready for this. Well, now that the medication helps me focus so much better than I used to, I found that I was no longer prepping my day anymore at all. So now what I do to combat that is plan out my day. I make a daily planner. I write it down because I am I struggle visually, but writing things down and visually seeing it, I have a better visual memory than I do anything else. So it helps me to write it out and see it. And I write out everything that I need to do the next day, especially the busy days. But most importantly, I write out the things that I really need, like leave by this time to get here at this time, you know, things like that. So that’s the biggest thing with the trial and error is you have to figure out what’s going to work for you, and you have to do the thing like the things that you feel like you’re not doing good at. You have to figure out a way to be good at them and sharpen those skills. So the habits and routines for us are so important to be healthy and to be organized and every everything else. And just remember that, you know the closet that, like you your closet of shame. You know you let yourself have that one space, but it was still a little mirror of what was going on. And maybe the only part of your brain that you allowed, like, maybe you had a cornered off place in your brain too, that it was mirroring, right? Like, you’re like, Oh, the rest of this is healthy, and I can deal with it, but yeah, you know, the great thing is that once you do get organized, you just feel so free, and you feel so confident, like you’re like, wow, I can do this. And even if you ask for help, it’s no different. And I hope people know that having someone help you with your mess, you still feel the accomplish. I’ve never had a client say, Oh, I would have been happier if I did this myself. I’ve not had anyone, but that’s things that we think that’s that’s something I would have done in my 20s. Has been like, Oh, I’m not going to hire someone, because I would feel better if I did it myself, right? But at the end, no one’s ever said that to me. I feel like they would tell me if it was true.

Kristen Carder 38:04
It was so freeing to have you there, and it was to have you, especially when I started to come off of the high, like, the the, you know, initial, like, Oh, this is fun. This is a new project. And it got really hard. You were there to say, like, Hey, we’re making such good progress. You’re doing a great job. You’re making so many decisions, let’s keep going. We’re almost done. And so I didn’t feel like I was just sitting in a huge pile and with no direction, like you were there to navigate. And it was so amazing.

Laura Brook 38:41
And I know I had to keep you busy with ADHD, because if you came down too much that, then you’d be done. I want exactly back. I know that. Like,

Kristen Carder 38:48
sorry. Oh, I know where’s my phone. I need to go on Instagram real quick. I just need to check something real quick. And I’m

Laura Brook 38:54
like, Oh no, no, no,

Kristen Carder 38:57
that’s so good. Well, I just want to say thank you so much, I feel like I was just in a therapy session for real.

Speaker 1 39:07
So much for having me. This is my passion in life, and I love talking about it, and but most of all, I really hope that I could have gotten at least a few of you out of your head space and this common headspace that we all deal with with ADHD when talking about our items and getting organized. And it’s been so fun talking about it with you, and it was so fun working with you in your home too. I’m

Kristen Carder 39:30
so glad it was so much fun for me. You would just like fit right in. You’re just one of them. One of the partners loved it. So Laura, how can people find you? If people want to either reach out to you for your business or just say hey or follow you on Instagram, How can everyone find you? Yes,

Laura Brook 39:49
I am on Instagram as well, and I’m not quite as addicted as you, but I’m close to Instagram, and I am at PHL organizer. That’s the name of. My company. It’s P as in Paul H L organizer, which PHL is Philadelphia Airport. If you’re wondering, some people might be what’s PHL. So it’s kind of like Philly organizer, but it’s, it’s the airport code anyway, so PHL organizer at basically you can do same thing on Facebook. So it’s www.facebook.com/phl organizer. Or My website is www dot PHL organizer.com, and yet, share your stories with me. Let me know how you struggle. Like, I love talking about this stuff. Don’t feel like, Oh, I’m not going to hire her. She’s not going to want to hear from me like I would love to hear from you. So find me on Facebook, Instagram or on my website. You can go to the contact section and send me a message or or whatever. And if you’re struggling in an area, let me know. Maybe I can kind of help you a little bit. And also, you know, if organization is something that you’ve really struggled with, or you try the things I’ve been talking about and you’re still really frustrated, it might be time to reach out for a professional organizer or even an ADHD coach or a therapist or somebody. And if this stuff you can’t do on your own, and you’ve tried and you’re frustrated, just ask for help.

Kristen Carder 41:15
Definitely. Yeah, I think we make it a lot harder than we need to, like we should ask for help sooner. So much sooner. Yeah, you know? Well, it’s the shame

Laura Brook 41:23
that comes with ADHD. It’s hard we we internalize everything. I call it the invisible disorder, because not only can we not understand and see half of what’s going on, nobody else can, and are just wondering what’s wrong with these people. Like, why can’t they do this? Like me, I don’t understand. You know, when you have a physical disability, everyone can see your struggle, and they empathize. And unfortunately, the burden is on us to educate those around us, but the burden is most especially on us to ask for help, because when you see someone with a physical disability, you reach out to them and ask how you can help them, and no one’s going to do that for us. You have to become your own advocate and ask help when you need it, because no one’s going to do it, because no one can see our struggle. And not only that, we hide it, and then we get upset that no one can see it, right?

Kristen Carder 42:17
Yes, that’s so true, yeah. Supporting us. Yes,

Laura Brook 42:24
exactly which is nor. I mean, I’m there right now, like it’s, it’s totally normal, yeah. And as much as I have it together in one area, you know, I’m always trying to improve the other areas of my life as well. So I’m, I’m always asking for help, and my life has improved so much since I’ve, you know, created awareness of for myself and realized that I’m not going to make it unless I ask for help. I

Kristen Carder 42:51
love it. Oh, thank you so much. You’re so inspiring. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate you coming. I know All right, guys, what did you think? I hope you loved it. I’m literally laying in my bed right now recording this outro. See what I do to show up for you. I mean, come on, that’s pretty great, isn’t it? Listen, don’t forget to go to I have adhd.com/organize 123, to get Laura’s super practical download. You can print it out, hang it on your wall, refer to it while you organize, or, better yet, hire Laura or another professional organizer to help you. But listen, I just want to say, if you made it this far, thank you. You are my people, I appreciate it so much. Please don’t forget to rate and review the podcast. It means so much to me when you do, and it really, really helps other people to find it. And if you want to hang out, come over to Instagram and hang out with me at I have ADHD podcast. I always like to meet new friends, and now I’m going to go to sleep. I hope you have a great week. I’m going to catch you next week when I’m feeling so much better. Bye.

Episode Transcript

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Kristen Carder 0:05
Kristen, welcome to the I have ADHD podcast, where it’s all about education, encouragement and coaching for adults. With ADHD, I’m your host, Kristen Carter and I have ADHD. Let’s chat about the frustrations, humor and challenges of adulting, relationships, working and achieving with this neurodevelopmental disorder, I’ll help you understand your unique brain, unlock your potential and move from point A to point B. Hey, what’s up? You’re listening to episode number 18 of the I have ADHD podcast. My name is Christine Carter. I am medicated, I am caffeinated, I am 100% sick, and I’m ready to roll I am super glad that today is part two of my conversation with professional organizer, Laura Brooke. You are going to get so much out of this episode. It’s an awesome continuation from last week, where Laura talked about the mindset of Organization. This week is all about the practical steps how to get it done. She also was so wonderful, and, of course, created a printable for you so that you could literally print out strategies, hang them on the wall and refer back to them while you organize. It doesn’t get easier than that. So you can go to, I have adhd.com/organize, 123, to grab that printable from Laura. I hope that you get so much out of this episode. I know that I did, and I cannot wait. So here is part two of my conversation with professional organizer, Laura Brooke, so I just kind of want to talk about my experience a little bit with you, and what it was like for me, because I have never worked with the professional organizer before. It was so exciting and kind of nerve wracking, and I am totally always up for new things, so I wasn’t nervous about you coming, but I didn’t know what to expect. And also, I will just say that I am used to being like, the bossiest person in the room. And so I was kind of like, okay, how is this going to go, and you totally blew my mind. Like I was like, oh so impressed. And also like, Okay, I don’t have to be the leader in this situation. And that felt so good.
Laura Brook 2:34
It felt so thank you. Yeah, and that’s, that’s a huge benefit, right? Like someone kind of coming in and you have the chance to detach a little bit because it’s not my thing. I don’t get that emotional response that you get from your things. I don’t get the anxiety that you get when you see a pile of your things, and it’s a little scary, you know? I don’t get that. It’s literally just me problem solving and trying to work it out with you, and suggesting things and trying to figure out what’s going to work for you. And, yeah, right, it’s literally like someone kind of coming in and taking over and helping. I
Kristen Carder 3:13
felt like it was hand holding, like you were hand you were just holding my hand through the whole process, but also kind of like, okay, come on. Let’s make a decision. Let’s go, which I really, really needed. I really needed. So okay, so you come to my house, and it was the first time we met. It was lovely. We just, like, chatted for a bit, and then you’re like, Okay, let’s get to work. So we go downstairs into, you know, the dreaded closet of shame. And I, of course, feel shame for even opening the closet door, and that was a huge thing for me. Was like, it didn’t scare you at all. It was nothing. No, like, Okay, I’ve
Laura Brook 3:51
seen everything, no something. I’ve seen worse. I’ve seen way, way, way worse. And then, do you remember the first kind of things you were saying when we first looked in the closet, do you remember? No, the and you this is the same as everybody. It’s a little weird showing someone you don’t really know a space like that, right? So the number one thing is you start like, kind of making excuses, not in a bad way, but you’re just like, oh, this is like, this because, or you explain, like, over explain, and I actually find it adorable when people shoot that, because I’m like, I’m like, no, like, this is your reaction. Like, I don’t have that. Like, there’s no judgment, you know, we’re all, I’m when I look at it, I’m seeing, okay, this is how we’re going to tackle this, right? And you’re like, ah, someone’s seeing all my, you know, items that is in my shame closet, you know, but I don’t, it’s not a shameful closet to me. I’m I see it all cleared out because that was the goal, you know. Oh,
Kristen Carder 4:50
I love that, and that was the first step. So you just said, Okay, we’re going to take everything out and we’re going to put it in the family room. And I was like, wait. What,
Laura Brook 5:01
yeah. You were like, like, all of it,
Kristen Carder 5:05
like, yeah, everything or what. And you’re like, yes, all of it, and it really, it did not take long. And you said that, you’re like, it’s not going to take long, because immediately I’m thinking, we should quit. Now, this is too hard, and it’s the first step. I’m like, I can’t do it.
Laura Brook 5:22
Right? No, what what happened was you were like, Oh, this is going to take four hours. And then, you know, you had that realization set in there. Like, yeah, I’m done.
Kristen Carder 5:32
So we cleared it out, and then what did we do? You started, you said, Let’s make three piles, right? Can you walk me through? Yeah, I don’t even remember
Laura Brook 5:40
Yes. So we started keep pile, obviously, things that you know your family wants and needs and that function for you, like no brainers, right? So we have a key pile, then we have the giveaway pile. It’s either crap or stuff that you you know, either trash, things that you definitely want to donate, or stuff that you’re like, Yeah, we definitely don’t need that anymore. Or I’ve already replaced this in my home. You know, those easy decisions. But the most important part is what I call the maybe pile. And this is an efficiency and productivity thing, and what that does is, and I’ll kind of break down the psychology of it too, of what I’ve noticed, I don’t have any case studies or anything, but just what I’ve noticed the maybe pile is so important, because if you are making a series of decisions, and you’re taking that extra 30 seconds to make that decision for every single one of the maybes, that is so draining. So what we do is we forget about the maybe pile. We just throw it in there if you if it’s not an easy decision, we put it away, because you are going to get discouraged a lot faster if you’re having a hard time. So we the the thought process is, Let’s clear out all the easy stuff. First, because one, it’s easier. Two, it saves time, and three, it creates more morale because you’re making easy decisions. The psychology is that you are happy because you’re like, Oh, well, I’m making all these decisions, and you really are and you should be. It’s not just a trick or anything, right? But at the same time, we are saving so much time by not stopping for every maybe while we go we are clearing out the room with all the easy stuff. But here’s the best part, when you make all of those easy decisions, you go into the maybes so much more confident, because you just made, like, 1000 decisions, and they were easy. And it’s a psychological thing. You’re, you basically trick your brain like, Okay, I’m I’ve already made so many decisions. I’m good at this, and then you’re ready. That’s how it works. So that, especially if you have ADHD, just throw it in the maybe pile. Don’t worry about it. Don’t make any hard decisions if you don’t have to. And I know all the ADHD people are like, Yeah, that sounds good to me. Also, I have ADHD, and I would lose my mind if I was sitting there with somebody and they were struggling through every decision, right? So it’s kind of for me too. It’s a little selfish,
Kristen Carder 8:12
yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that patience part right on your end, like, Come on, let’s
Laura Brook 8:17
go. Right? So is not only for me, it’s for you, but also it, there’s something about it, like it’s, it’s something that I will totally admit I did selfishly at first as an organizer, and then I started to see that it improved the process so much more for so many reasons, including the self confidence of, like, oh, wow, I’m good at making decisions now, like something, things that people were dreading. That’s what everyone dreads, is the decision making. Am I going to keep this? Am I going to get rid of it? Decluttering is not easy, too. And I want to point out to any ADHD ers who have tons of stuff that if you read a book like you know about sparking joy and not naming any names, and it acts like it’s going to be really easy and joyful. I want you to know that it’s not going to be and you should not be prepared for it to be easy, because then you’re definitely not going to finish it. Because it’s not going to be easy. Nothing is easy, especially if you have ADHD, but nothing is easy, but also the hard things you do are so much more rewarding when you finish them. Now,
Kristen Carder 9:26
one thing you did with me was encourage me to get rid of as much as possible. Do you do that with all your clients, or was it just obvious that I needed to
Laura Brook 9:36
so well? I mean, honestly, every client is so different. I do that with the clients that I think need it, and it’s very typical that most ADHD clients do need that. But I would say most of my clients from all backgrounds need that because we from birth, are bombarded with brands and items. And things, and everywhere you go, there’s something to buy. And our parents raised us with tons of toys, and now we have kids who have, like, way more toys than we had, and we had way too many toys. And you know, so really, it’s something that everyone’s struggling with right now, and it’s a need that I see, and I want to point out, too that the goal for anyone with ADHD for getting organized should be to have and this is the one of the only things that works across the board, because this would work for anyone anywhere. The simpler it is, the easier is to do. So if you have less stuff, it’s going to be easier to keep up with it. And also, we’ve been talking about responsibility. Taking responsibility for your items is just as important as taking responsibility for where you are right now and where you want to be, because this is something that we never think about with ADHD, but everything in your home you own and you’re responsible for maintaining, and if you look at it like that, when you’re making those decisions, when you’re decluttering, like, do I need this? You know, when you’re going through that, maybe pile that’s a little harder think things like, Do I want to take the time to deal with this later, like, whenever I need to maintain it, whatever the item is, you know, if it’s, if it’s something that’s just being thrown in your garage, you know that that deeper storage that we do, chances are you probably don’t need it, unless it’s, you know, something that has to do with outdoor but something that’s like, oh, I’ll just throw it in the garage. Just take that time to deal with it while you’re decluttering, because you don’t want to shift around your clutter, of course, which is the goal, and that’s really something I push because I don’t want to come in and shift around your clutter either. I want to actually help you. Do you know what I mean? So that’s my thing. Do you want to take the time at a later date to go through this again and make this decision? You know? Think about it in the way that we do so well in the big picture, when you’re decluttering, but ask yourself the right questions, do I want to take time on this later? When’s the last time I used it? Am I going to use it again? Am I only worried about this because I spent a lot of money on it? You know, think about things like that, and you know, there’s so many questions you can ask yourself, but if you know while you’re decluttering, once again, going back to knowing yourself, if you know your end goal, you also will know the right questions to ask when you’re decluttering, because everyone is decluttering for different reasons. You were decluttering to clear up the closet for home renovations, which are so exciting, so you have a little motivation, because you’re getting, you know, you’re you’re getting a brand new laundry room, and that’s amazing, but sometimes the decluttering is for not as fun goals, and it’s a lot harder to make those decisions. But you also have to know your goal. And if the if you’re decluttering for the sake of just getting organized, it can be a little more boring, so you have to know the questions you’re going to ask yourself and make that plan, like write them down look at a piece of paper while you’re doing it, if
Kristen Carder 13:08
you need to. So good. Yeah. So let’s talk about the items that we’ve purchased impulsively, that we feel regret for buying, or that we feel regret for not using like we thought we’d use it, or we talked ourselves into like, oh yeah, I’ll totally use this, but then we end up right, not using it right, or like me, you know, that thing that I ordered from Amazon that I forgot to return, and now It’s too late, and now I have it, and it’s brand new, but it didn’t fit anyway, or, you know, it wasn’t whatever something that I actually needed. And so now I have this brand new item, and I feel so guilty either donating it or, you know, throwing it out or whatever. So like, talk to me about that, because you and I had a very long conversation about this, yes,
Laura Brook 14:02
so that is total human nature. It’s something that I share with my clients, and no one’s ever heard of this. And I would like to shout out to my husband who taught me this. He was a philosophy undergrad major, so he actually shared this with me when I was explaining the same, this same scenario, and how, like, every single one of my clients was feeling this, and he goes, Oh, yeah. Have you ever read up on stunk cost fallacy? And I’m like, what? Like, I’ve never heard of it, of course. And I’m like, oh. And I read it, and I was like, oh, like, ding ding, ding, ding, ding. You know, the light bulb went off. I was all excited, and I started sharing it with my clients. I shared it with you. Totally changed your life, right? I mean, maybe not your life, okay? So what the sunk cost fallacy is, is it is a logical fallacy that most humans experience, and what happens is the the fallacy. Is that you give worth to items or things in your life based on the amount of time you’ve put into it or the amount of money that you’ve put into it. But the problem, and the fallacy is that it’s emotional value, so it’s not real value, and that’s the fallacy it is. It is holding on to things just because you did something and it created a value. So whether it’s $50 or $2 you put value on it because it’s been so So basically, the longer something sits in your home, the harder it is to deal with it. And that’s the logical fallacy, and I see it all the time, and some things are easier for people than others. So like some some people, there’s a whole room, and they’re like, just throw it all out. I don’t want to see anything in there. But then we get to another area, and it’s something that’s, you know, more emotional for them, and that’s where the fallacy kicks in. And they know it’s worthless, or they know it’s, you know, they know deep down they should get rid of it, but, but it’s like you said, some sort of guilt or really, it’s value, and it’s fake value that they’ve put on it. So when you take once again, we’re talking about getting out of your headspace, and it’s the best thing for you when you have ADHD, if you’re like, Oh, I know, I know I’m never going to use this again, but what am I supposed to do? I mean, I spent $50 on it, and that’s been sitting here. Well, if you can take yourself out of that headspace and realize, oh, wow, I put emotional value on this based on dollars, but this thing is huge, and I know I’m never going to use it, and I need the space right there. Okay, get rid of it, right? You’ve unlocked the fallacy.
Kristen Carder 16:46
I love it, and then it becomes a no brainer. I
Laura Brook 16:49
love it too. It improved my life, not only, you know, my own, you know, things with with my children and all of that, but everyone I’ve shared it with it. It made it that much easier to declutter those harder items, the maybe piles, you know, yeah,
Kristen Carder 17:07
yeah, sure, that was huge for me, and I, I am still kind of processing that, because I think we do that with so many things. And I actually, my friend, was so inspired that I started to declutter my kids room, and I started with the bookshelf. And you know, there are some books in really good condition that they’re just not interested in, but I have assigned value to them because I’ve spent money on them or because they were given to them as a gift, but they’re not interested in writing them, so they’re just taking up space. And it was really amazing for me to be able to think through that concept of like, I’m assigning value that it actually doesn’t have it’s valuable if we use it all the time, if we don’t use it all the time, then it’s not valuable, right?
Laura Brook 17:53
Exactly, and we all and that’s another part of knowing yourself, right? You have to define what you value, and that’s a great thing that you learn going through the decluttering process. Totally never decluttered before. You just kind of shifted your stuff around. There’s a good chance that you don’t even really know, especially if you have ADHD, because we’re not always thinking about the right things. While we’re doing something right, we’re thinking about everything else, but what we’re doing that, you know that’s something that you have to learn you don’t if I don’t know about anyone but me, personally, I didn’t know what I valued personally until I started decluttering myself, but in a more purposeful way, so taking that time to get to know what my goals were and things like that, and then especially now, people almost every day doing this. It’s something that you have to learn about yourself, because we it’s something that we don’t know. You don’t know what you value. If you’ve never asked yourself, am I going to throw this away? Do I need it? You know, the more questions you ask, the better. And it’s very interesting what people value. And I am, while I am judgment free, I am always like, Oh, interesting. They’re getting rid of that. It’s always some I find it kind of exciting to see what other people value and or don’t value. Like, sometimes I’m shocked, like, I’ve had people, you know, I do consignment at times for my clients, you know, for the higher price items, and for me, that’s just the way to divert things out of landfill. So I actually like doing that. But sometimes they’ll be like, Oh, I only wore it once, but I don’t even care about it. Just, you know, just get rid of it. Just donate it. And it’s like, you know, like a $900 handbag. And I’m like, Are you crazy? You know what I mean. It always fascinates me. But then there’s other people who have literally a $5 handbag, and they’re like, No, I’m never going to use it again. But no, you know, it’s very interesting. Oh my gosh, it’s I, really, I, I feel like I just took, you know, I became a therapist and a, you know, just like associate. Ologist At the same time. Totally, it’s funny. I know, so
Kristen Carder 20:03
fascinating,
Laura Brook 20:05
how attached
Kristen Carder 20:06
we are to our stuff and how
Laura Brook 20:09
and the weird stuff like, not even attached to like, what you would think, right? And everyone’s
Kristen Carder 20:15
so different. Yes, that is so true, that is true. And also how our home, like how we choose to live, defines who we are. And I think you know what you’re saying about knowing your goals. That goes back to my whole thing on like living with vision, right? So that applies to every area of your life, and I think your home and space that is huge. Like, who am I when it comes to my stuff? Who do I want to be? Who what kind of stuff do I want to have, and what kind of stuff do I not want to allow into my home? Like, for me, for example, those, like, Happy Meal toys, like, that’s a hard no from me, you know, like, we’re not. Those do not come in my home, but things like that, where it’s like, I make conscious decisions, but I had to first define who I was, who I wanted to be, and what I wanted my stuff to like, you know, my space to look like. But still, even then, the closet of shame, you know, creeps in, right?
Laura Brook 21:19
But you told us, I mean, part of that decision making process was, this is junk, and I don’t want to deal with it later, so you ask yourself the right questions. I mean, you might have not consciously asked like that, but you knew this is junk coming in. It’s my kids aren’t even going to play with it, right? It just needs to go and, you know, go away before it even gets home. And that’s great. And that’s like, that’s part of the mindful things that we can do, and I call it mindful consumption, and it’s one of the best ways to combat and having a clutter issue is starting from the source clutter is not saying we’re not foragers anymore. In case you didn’t realize, every thing that you own in your home, that’s clutter you paid for or you allowed someone to give to you, even if you didn’t want it, right? So we’re out there creating our own clutter. You have to take responsibility for it, and the best way to do that, and the best way to prevent it in the future, is by knowing your game plan, knowing when to say no. You know what, I’m probably not going to read that book. I don’t want to borrow it. I mean, how many times have you been asked like, Oh, do you want to borrow this? This was amazing. And in your head, you’re like, No, not really. And you’re like, Yeah, sure. I mean, we all do that totally, but it’s okay, so knowing when to say no for your own benefit. Okay, just say, oh, you know what, I probably, I probably wouldn’t read that like it looks really cool and all, and I’m so happy you enjoyed it. But you know, just things like that, like find a nice way to say it, or if you’re someone who really struggles with saying, No, this is a tip I always give, especially ADHD say, You know what, let me think about that. And then you get yourself out of the situation, and then you also have time to prepare how you’re going to say no, nicely. I love it. Yeah,
Kristen Carder 23:08
that’s so good, right? Because yes comes out of our mouth, and we’re like, why am I saying yes? Like, I can see myself saying yes. I’m like, why am I saying yes? Right? Now, I don’t even know
Laura Brook 23:18
the impulses. We didn’t even make that decision, but if you prepare for things like that, it comes out, you say, oh, you know what? Let me think about that. And I always say that, like
Kristen Carder 23:28
people’s homes that you go to, where you are given things regularly, right? We can all know in our heads, and they’re lovely, like, we love you people who give us stuff. But like, Yeah, well,
Laura Brook 23:41
if you can actually, let me just like, clarify too, if you can actually use something and it’s going to be beneficial to you, please take it. I’m not telling you. Don’t nothing’s ever allowed to come into your house again. I just want you to make the conscious decision that’s best for you personally, best for your future and best with your, you know, big plan of what you want. If you want a minimalist house, you know, you’re pretty much gonna have to say no to everybody, yeah. But if you’re someone who is more function, that’s great, too. And your question should be, am I going to be able to use it? Do I have space for it? Do I have room for it? Or if you really want it and you don’t have space for it, it can be, what am I going to get rid of to make space for it? So I’m not saying you can never take anything again, but think about it like you’re, you know, managing inventory or something like that. I mean, if it’s not hard to do, and there’s actually apps that can help you do that with your home, if you want to, but, you know, think about what your goal is. Now I also want to point out to that if your goal is esthetic, if you are a visual person, and it makes you feel really good to have a home that looks really good, yeah, I don’t want you to think that I’m against that either, because sometimes it comes off as that, because, like, earlier, I was, you know, talking crap on Pinterest and everything. Thing. I just want to point out that if that’s what makes you feel really good and being and you’re organized and it looks good, and you didn’t just throw everything in a closet somewhere. You didn’t, you know, create a closet of shame so that your house could look like that, right then that is what your goal should be. And I’m all for that. And you should have a beautiful space that you love. I just want to point out that having the beautiful space isn’t the end all be all it might be for certain people, but I just don’t want the people who aren’t even, don’t even care about esthetics to worry about that, because I find people doing that. I love it. The first thing they say is, Well, should we go like what should I buy all the time, all the time, like we’re on the phone, I haven’t even seen their space yet, and they’re like, Well, what? What should I get to be organized? And my answer is always the same, well, probably nothing nice. You probably don’t need anything. And normally, if they’ve asked me that they’ve already bought too much of those things anyway, and we can make do with what they have. But you know, that’s why knowing what you want, what’s going to benefit you personally, is so important, and you have to figure out what that is. And it’s hard for me to sit here and really help any of your listeners, but if you can do that, that’s going to help, and I and whatever that may be, you have to figure out how to get there. I love it, and it sucks. The journey is hard. The journey is
Kristen Carder 26:23
hard. But the thing is, being prepared for that journey is so amazing, like thinking that it’s going to be easy and then getting mad that it’s not, that’s what sucks, right? But like, if you know, like, Okay, this is going to be hard, but I’m going to spend 10 minutes doing this hard thing. Like, we’re grown ups. We can do that. We can do the hard things. Map out
Laura Brook 26:43
your day. Say, You know what? This is probably going to take me a couple hours. So Monday, I’m going to do 20 minutes, and Wednesday, I’m going to do 40 minutes, because I get homework early that day. And then Friday night, you know, I’m always a little tired, so that day, I’ll do 10 and that’s like 10 minutes, you know, and that adds up to an hour, yeah, that you work through a week. So that’s what people you know, plan it like that, but plan it also how you’re likely going to be if you know, you’re always tired on Friday night, don’t plan anything on that night, or just give yourself a small chunk, you know, things like that. Being realistic is so important. I love it.
Kristen Carder 27:20
So what would you say if someone were to ask you, well, actually, that someone is me, how would I do it? What are the top three to five things that anybody can do to live a more organized life? What? What would you say to that?
Laura Brook 27:40
Okay, so the number one thing, and I briefly touched on this earlier, is being proactive. Like I said, the mindful consumption, especially if you have ADHD, we can’t handle a lot of things in a small area, or an or too many things in a space, whatever the size is. It’s very hard for us. So like I said, and it works for anyone anywhere, the less you have to deal with the easier it is to take care of it. So the way you do that is after. You know before and after, but while you’re going through your giant declutter session, if that’s what you have to do, be thinking about the mindful consumption, because it’s so important evaluate every purchase. Please. Don’t you know, if you struggle at Target, you got to stop going there. You have to, if you go in and you’re like, I’m only going to get this and it’s $20 and you come out and it’s $150 you should not go there because they are really good. And you know what? Also get out of your head space. They do that on purpose. You don’t think they’ve done all of this on purpose, like the corporation of target is there to get you to spend $200 or more every time you’re there. And they’re really good at it, yeah? So that’s another thing. Don’t pretend like, Oh, I just, you know, just pick this up. It just, I don’t know. I just impulse buy whatever. Yeah, look at each store and understand that they are actually manipulating you at your weakest moments to buy things. Why do you think they put five and under at the at the checkout? Everything at a checkout is $5 and under, and there’s a reason for that. It’s because you’re in the checkout line. You’re just standing there, you’re bored, and we have ADHD, and what do we do? We pick stuff up, and we’re looking at it. We don’t need any of it, you know, do I really need gum? No, you don’t need gum, but you’re like, looking at it, and then you all of a sudden, you’re picking out which flavor you want. Yeah, you’re not even thinking about it. So that’s what I’m saying, not only mindful consumption, but understand that marketing is targeted against you, and that’s something to really understand. It really is marketing, and it’s something that all business owners do. And I think if any of you own a business, you when you were. Researching, marketing your own company, you learn so much about the world, and it all opened up because you have to realize that everything is there on purpose. In every store, everything was placed there on purpose to get you to buy it. Yeah, everything. So look at it that way. Get out of your head space. Be mindful, just like decluttering those questions, do I need it if I don’t have space for this? Do I have something else I can get rid of to create the space? Am I actually going to use it? What about is this valuable? Like is, do I already have three white t shirts? You might have the space for it, but if you already have three white t shirts, but this t shirt is only $5 No, it’s, you don’t need it. Like, think, get out of your head space. And also, discounts and sales are also very common to manipulate buyers as well, because, oh, it’s on sale. You and also, I, I’ve been there, we kind of get a little dopamine hit from getting a good sale. Do you totally,
Kristen Carder 30:59
totally, yeah, right. And then, like, you saved money, except you spent money. It feels good, yeah? Well, you have
Laura Brook 31:07
to understand evolutionarily we come from, you know when, when we had to kind of hunt and gather, and there’s this evolutionary side to to all of marketing, but we won’t go into that, but yes, so see it as it is. Understand that everything’s placed there to get you to buy it, and then ask yourself those questions. So that’s step one. Is being proactive. Don’t bring like, like you said with the McDonald’s Happy Meal toys, right? Just don’t let it in. If it’s if it adds no value to your life, don’t do it. But also, there’s another way to think about things too. What you’re purchasing, is it healthy? Is it adding value to your spiritual health, to your mental health? So let’s talk about digital purchases, those $5 and under apps that you really don’t need. You know, it’s the same thing. It’s probably not going to add much to your life. It might, it might, and if it does, you should buy it if it’s something that is improving you and your health and your life. And let’s talk about food too, right? Oh my gosh, same thing. How much money do we waste on crap food? But it’s the same thing. You can apply these principles to any area of your life, and that’s why organizing, to me, is so fun. I know you once again, I’m crazy, I know, but it’s so fun, because this is the fundamentals of life. Everything I’m saying you can apply to every other area in your life, and the home so often, is a mirror of what’s going on inside your head. And that is exactly why a lot of us have very messy homes. Our head is very messy. So how do you combat that? You don’t just shuffle your clutter around. You get out of your head space and you organize your head first. You figure out who you are, what you want, where you’re going, where you want to go, and make sure it’s realistic in the first place. Like if you’re trying to lose weight, your goal isn’t to look like J Lo, it’s to be your best self. Well, organizing is the same way. You don’t pick up a specific picture, you you figure out how your home can be a better version for you and how it’s going to benefit you. And so that leads me to the second thing, like I just said, to understand yourself and what you want better, because that’s something that we struggle with so much with ADHD, and you might need a therapist to help you with this. You might have to talk through this stuff with somebody, and I don’t want you to be discouraged if you are hearing this stuff and you’re like, I don’t know what I want. And that’s very common. I mean, most people that call me to help them, they have, they have no they never even thought about it before. They knew they needed help, but they never even thought, oh, what’s, what’s my end game here? You know, they didn’t even get there. So it’s very, very common. Don’t be discouraged. I know sometimes we can take that if we are, you know, not doing everything like we’re already pros, but definitely take the time understand yourself. Take the time to figure out what you want. That’s okay if you if it takes some time to figure out, you might even start and not totally know what you’re looking for, but you can figure out, figure it out on the way, as long as you have some sort of goal in mind that’s going to help you kind of get through those arcs. As we talked about, when you’re coming down, you still need a goal to get you over those arcs. So don’t just definitely, if you don’t know where you want to go, just figure out a smaller goal in the meantime and just work towards that. So that’s one step, and then basically focus on the habits and routines more than anything. This is the biggest thing, especially if you have ADHD and you want to get organized. We are creatures of movement, and the best way to combat the movement that isn’t going to help us is to create healthy habits. And like I said, you can use the one touch rule. There’s other things that people do like they write like for me, I write down and outline my whole day because. Because I was telling you this in person, I there’s a lot of things about me that aren’t typical ADHD, even though I am very I mean, I was told I was the poster child, and in a lot of ways I am, but I’m kind of a walking constitution. But one way I’m extremely weird, and I had to find a workaround, is that before I was medicated for ADHD as an adult, I was on time for everything. Always. I was to the T I was early. If I wasn’t, I got all anxious and I was well. Now that I’m medicated, I am actually late all the time, and it’s something that I’ve never had to work on. And I know it makes no sense, but here’s what I figured out. I think, when I was not medicated, I was never fully focusing on on the things that I was supposed to be focusing on. I always knew what time it was, so I was prepared in my head. I was always thinking about my next step, so I knew, Oh, in 10 minutes, I have to get ready for this. Well, now that the medication helps me focus so much better than I used to, I found that I was no longer prepping my day anymore at all. So now what I do to combat that is plan out my day. I make a daily planner. I write it down because I am I struggle visually, but writing things down and visually seeing it, I have a better visual memory than I do anything else. So it helps me to write it out and see it. And I write out everything that I need to do the next day, especially the busy days. But most importantly, I write out the things that I really need, like leave by this time to get here at this time, you know, things like that. So that’s the biggest thing with the trial and error is you have to figure out what’s going to work for you, and you have to do the thing like the things that you feel like you’re not doing good at. You have to figure out a way to be good at them and sharpen those skills. So the habits and routines for us are so important to be healthy and to be organized and every everything else. And just remember that, you know the closet that, like you your closet of shame. You know you let yourself have that one space, but it was still a little mirror of what was going on. And maybe the only part of your brain that you allowed, like, maybe you had a cornered off place in your brain too, that it was mirroring, right? Like, you’re like, Oh, the rest of this is healthy, and I can deal with it, but yeah, you know, the great thing is that once you do get organized, you just feel so free, and you feel so confident, like you’re like, wow, I can do this. And even if you ask for help, it’s no different. And I hope people know that having someone help you with your mess, you still feel the accomplish. I’ve never had a client say, Oh, I would have been happier if I did this myself. I’ve not had anyone, but that’s things that we think that’s that’s something I would have done in my 20s. Has been like, Oh, I’m not going to hire someone, because I would feel better if I did it myself, right? But at the end, no one’s ever said that to me. I feel like they would tell me if it was true.
Kristen Carder 38:04
It was so freeing to have you there, and it was to have you, especially when I started to come off of the high, like, the the, you know, initial, like, Oh, this is fun. This is a new project. And it got really hard. You were there to say, like, Hey, we’re making such good progress. You’re doing a great job. You’re making so many decisions, let’s keep going. We’re almost done. And so I didn’t feel like I was just sitting in a huge pile and with no direction, like you were there to navigate. And it was so amazing.
Laura Brook 38:41
And I know I had to keep you busy with ADHD, because if you came down too much that, then you’d be done. I want exactly back. I know that. Like,
Kristen Carder 38:48
sorry. Oh, I know where’s my phone. I need to go on Instagram real quick. I just need to check something real quick. And I’m
Laura Brook 38:54
like, Oh no, no, no,
Kristen Carder 38:57
that’s so good. Well, I just want to say thank you so much, I feel like I was just in a therapy session for real.
Speaker 1 39:07
So much for having me. This is my passion in life, and I love talking about it, and but most of all, I really hope that I could have gotten at least a few of you out of your head space and this common headspace that we all deal with with ADHD when talking about our items and getting organized. And it’s been so fun talking about it with you, and it was so fun working with you in your home too. I’m
Kristen Carder 39:30
so glad it was so much fun for me. You would just like fit right in. You’re just one of them. One of the partners loved it. So Laura, how can people find you? If people want to either reach out to you for your business or just say hey or follow you on Instagram, How can everyone find you? Yes,
Laura Brook 39:49
I am on Instagram as well, and I’m not quite as addicted as you, but I’m close to Instagram, and I am at PHL organizer. That’s the name of. My company. It’s P as in Paul H L organizer, which PHL is Philadelphia Airport. If you’re wondering, some people might be what’s PHL. So it’s kind of like Philly organizer, but it’s, it’s the airport code anyway, so PHL organizer at basically you can do same thing on Facebook. So it’s www.facebook.com/phl organizer. Or My website is www dot PHL organizer.com, and yet, share your stories with me. Let me know how you struggle. Like, I love talking about this stuff. Don’t feel like, Oh, I’m not going to hire her. She’s not going to want to hear from me like I would love to hear from you. So find me on Facebook, Instagram or on my website. You can go to the contact section and send me a message or or whatever. And if you’re struggling in an area, let me know. Maybe I can kind of help you a little bit. And also, you know, if organization is something that you’ve really struggled with, or you try the things I’ve been talking about and you’re still really frustrated, it might be time to reach out for a professional organizer or even an ADHD coach or a therapist or somebody. And if this stuff you can’t do on your own, and you’ve tried and you’re frustrated, just ask for help.
Kristen Carder 41:15
Definitely. Yeah, I think we make it a lot harder than we need to, like we should ask for help sooner. So much sooner. Yeah, you know? Well, it’s the shame
Laura Brook 41:23
that comes with ADHD. It’s hard we we internalize everything. I call it the invisible disorder, because not only can we not understand and see half of what’s going on, nobody else can, and are just wondering what’s wrong with these people. Like, why can’t they do this? Like me, I don’t understand. You know, when you have a physical disability, everyone can see your struggle, and they empathize. And unfortunately, the burden is on us to educate those around us, but the burden is most especially on us to ask for help, because when you see someone with a physical disability, you reach out to them and ask how you can help them, and no one’s going to do that for us. You have to become your own advocate and ask help when you need it, because no one’s going to do it, because no one can see our struggle. And not only that, we hide it, and then we get upset that no one can see it, right?
Kristen Carder 42:17
Yes, that’s so true, yeah. Supporting us. Yes,
Laura Brook 42:24
exactly which is nor. I mean, I’m there right now, like it’s, it’s totally normal, yeah. And as much as I have it together in one area, you know, I’m always trying to improve the other areas of my life as well. So I’m, I’m always asking for help, and my life has improved so much since I’ve, you know, created awareness of for myself and realized that I’m not going to make it unless I ask for help. I
Kristen Carder 42:51
love it. Oh, thank you so much. You’re so inspiring. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate you coming. I know All right, guys, what did you think? I hope you loved it. I’m literally laying in my bed right now recording this outro. See what I do to show up for you. I mean, come on, that’s pretty great, isn’t it? Listen, don’t forget to go to I have adhd.com/organize 123, to get Laura’s super practical download. You can print it out, hang it on your wall, refer to it while you organize, or, better yet, hire Laura or another professional organizer to help you. But listen, I just want to say, if you made it this far, thank you. You are my people, I appreciate it so much. Please don’t forget to rate and review the podcast. It means so much to me when you do, and it really, really helps other people to find it. And if you want to hang out, come over to Instagram and hang out with me at I have ADHD podcast. I always like to meet new friends, and now I’m going to go to sleep. I hope you have a great week. I’m going to catch you next week when I’m feeling so much better. Bye.

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