Kristen Carder 0:05
Welcome to the I have ADHD podcast where it’s all about education, encouragement and coaching for adults. With ADHD, I’m your host, Kristen Carter and I have ADHD, let’s chat about the frustrations, humor and challenges of adulting, relationships, working and achieving with this neurodevelopmental disorder, I’ll help you understand your unique brain, unlock your potential and move from point A to point B. Hey, what’s up? This is Kristin Carter, and you’ve tuned into the I have ADHD podcast, I am medicated, caffeinated, regulated, although very excited and ready to roll. I am excited because one of my faves is in the house, Mr. Matt cicarelli, and I’m so excited for us to have this conversation. You might remember that he was on the podcast a year ago, Episode 291 91 yes, 291, where he talked about his experience of unemployment and under employment, and I am very happy to report that he has landed a job. And so we’re gonna just do a little update podcast. This is, this is the episode for any of you who have struggled in your jobs, who have struggled with unemployment, who maybe are in between jobs right now and just feeling like, uh, will it ever happen for me? And the answer is, yes, it will. It can and it will happen. I’m excited for you to enjoy this episode today. Matt, thanks for being here.
Matt Ciciarelli 1:34
Thank you for having me back. You’re I love every minute of this.
Kristen Carder 1:39
It is so fun to have you, and we were just chatting before we were recording about it was almost exactly a year ago that you were here on the podcast. And at that time, you had been unemployed, slash what we’re going to call underemployed. Perfect way to describe it, like that description, right working. It like you were working, but it was not in your fields, nope. It was not the amount of money you were used to making. And that had been going on for almost a year when you had when you had come, yes, yeah, and you did get a job, yes, and we’re gonna get there first. Can you, for anyone who, like, didn’t hear that first podcast, or maybe just doesn’t remember, walk us through the unemployment journey. So what was that like? For you?
Matt Ciciarelli 2:29
Sure. So right before Thanksgiving of 2023 I was told that my position was being eliminated. I was the Director of Marketing at a small private capital firm right here outside of Philadelphia, and they said, as of December 1, your job is eliminated. We’ll pay you through the end of December. But after that, you know, all the stuff. And I was like, okay, and it stunk, because I loved what I was doing. I mean, it was like, the first time in 20 years where I woke up and I’m like, Oh, I’m excited. I’m excited to go to work. The work environment itself wasn’t perfect. There was, you know, the boss, my boss that I had reported to was, he was an older guy, and he was old school, and he was one of people in the office, and he was not very flexible. Like I said, Well, my son is a soccer game, and he’s like, Well, how you gonna make up if you gonna make up if you want to go, how you gonna make up that time? There’s no trust, not not as much trust there. But, and you know, it’s his company. He spent his money to build it from nothing all the way up to $5 billion company, whatever it was. And you know, he had that right. I just wish he would have trusted a little more and would have learned about me a little more. So I was upset I didn’t have a job. Didn’t upset I didn’t have a job that I loved and but I was not upset to have to deal with that kind of stuff. So we get through December, no one’s hiring December. So January hits, January 2024, hits, and I’m like, looking for jobs, I’m networking with people, I’m talking to people, and nothing’s happening, and my wife is like, let’s just get anything. Let’s just get a job, you know, anything, pay the bills. We still have three kids, we still have a mortgage, you know, we need health benefits, all that kind of stuff. So I said, Yeah, okay, and it, I heard what she was saying, but it, it wasn’t it to me. It was like, why am I going to do that when all something’s going to pop up for me pretty soon? So I worked part time at a grocery store, still applying for jobs, and the summer of 24 it was probably in the beginning of July, I had just kind of nothing was happening. And my sister in law told me about her friend of her father’s who runs a cemetery, and he said they were hiring. And I was like, All right, I. It was more money than the grocery store, and it was more it was full time, and after a couple months, it was health benefits. And so I started working there,
Kristen Carder 5:07
and I wish the listening audience could see the very preppy man sitting in front of me and and just picture you like digging graves in a in a cemetery, because that I’m like, I still don’t have a picture. It was an interesting time for them, because we’re, I’m talking, like, collared shirt, little sweater with the what is that? Eyes on, like the alligator sit like we’re talking preppy.
Matt Ciciarelli 5:32
I I went, I did go through a couple outfits last night. I went to Julie. I went to my wife’s like, what about this one? She goes, Okay, what about this one? Okay, she’s like, whatever you
Kristen Carder 5:42
want. No, you look great, but I’m just saying it does. This
Matt Ciciarelli 5:46
is not one of the ones that I picked out before last night, and this
Kristen Carder 5:48
is not something that you would wear to the cemetery. Oh, goodness
Matt Ciciarelli 5:52
no. It was steel toed boots, is what I’m saying. And you know, you know, we worked outside every day, rain or snow or whatever. And it was, it was real work. It was a lot. And I would come home
Kristen Carder 6:07
tired every day. Bless the workers that are doing, the
Matt Ciciarelli 6:11
guys that work there. I get it. They it’s probably not what they wanted to do. Set out to do with their lives, right? But they, they do the work. Yeah, they do it seriously. Yes, they do. And they’re really, really, really good people. And I am so thankful that they brought me on at a time when I really, really needed it, that I needed it, and my family needed and when I left, I wrote a little note to the boss. I was like, I can’t thank you enough of you know for all you’ve done. And I wouldn’t, you know, I don’t know where I’d be without it at
Kristen Carder 6:43
this point. That’s amazing. Yeah. So we went from grocery store, yeah, yep, to grave digging, yes, yes. And then where did we land? Matthew,
Matt Ciciarelli 6:54
yeah, we landed at a very small marketing agency based down the road here in Delaware, county media Pennsylvania, run by a very talented woman who has married with two little boys, a four year old and a one year old. And she started the company about five, six years ago because she did not want to be I don’t want to say she did not want to be held back by working at a big agency. She was very successful at, you know, agencies in the city and but she just didn’t get it there they the she didn’t get what she wanted out of it. And so she said, You know what, I’m gonna she decided, I’m gonna do this for myself. And she’s, she’s great. She she her dad has ADHD, her brother has ADHD. So all this, during all this whole process of looking for a job, I would, I would go into an interview. I’m like, Oh, do I say they have ADHD? Do I do it? And I would kind of feel it out, sure. Sometimes I would just say no, because my boss my previous job, like I said, old school guy, when I first started there, he we were just talking and everything. He was telling me about guys that have worked there, and then we was talking about one guy, and he said, Oh, I think he was weird. He was on medication, I think. And I was like, All right, so I’m not telling this guy that I’m not. There’s no and so it was like, taboo for him, right? And I’m like, All right, this is, you know, you’re not safe to say Correct, yeah, so. But other interviews I went on, I would go in saying, all right, if I’m comfortable, if I the conversation is going the right way, yeah, I would tell them about it. And this woman, the first time I met her, it was, I would say, within 10 minutes, I mentioned that I had it, and she goes, Oh, okay, cool. Oh my gosh, I love and she’s been great. It’s the there’s four of us. We have a great group of clients. We have a great group of freelancers that we work with that, you know, she trusts me, yeah, and that is something I’ve never had before.
Kristen Carder 9:00
Okay, let’s talk about that. Because one of the things that I think is important to talk about is the stark contrast between the way you felt at your previous job, and I remember you expressing, I think this was on a coaching call. I hope you don’t mind if I say it, okay, um, you saying, like you felt like you were always getting in trouble, yes, at that job, like, the like, the like, the hammer was gonna come down at some point. Like, there was always somebody lurking, trying to, like, figure out what you were doing,
Matt Ciciarelli 9:30
yeah. Yeah. So my old jobs, I had been laid off a couple times, and I had had this paranoia that everybody was out to get me, like, if I don’t do it absolutely perfectly, yeah, that’s it. Warm up the bus. Get out of here. And I would go to the point where, if my boss was in a closed door meeting in his or her office, I would like, oh, here we go. About me. They’re talking about me. You know, it’s right. They probably weren’t. Oh, I guarantee you. I mean, nine times out of 10 they probably weren’t, but it’s just the way my brain works, and I would be walking on eggshells about everything. What a great way to put it. Okay, so it sounds like there’s a big difference with this new job that you have. Yes, very much. So she’s what makes the difference. She it makes difference is that one she gets it my boss, first of all, I’m the oldest person in there by 18 years, which is, it’s an interesting dynamic, that’s for sure. I’m they call me vintage. Yeah, she was born a year before I was a junior in high school the year she was born, it was, she told me that I almost fell over, right? But I forgot where I was going with this. No, she gets it, yeah, so she gets it, and she’s, it’s like, I told her, my son plays soccer, and he’s a senior in high school, plays soccer. I said, Hey, my son is a soccer game. I said, you know, I’m gonna skip out early, as I was working from home that day, I’m gonna skip out early. I’ll come back and I’ll do this. And she goes, okay, yes, fine. I’m like, as opposed to somebody else, one of my other bosses, like, okay, so what are you gonna How you gonna make up that time? Can I get a hold of you? You’re gonna have your phone on you. If I send you an email, will you be able to get it? I’m like, Yeah, I guess. But this one, this Shelly, is like, chill.
Kristen Carder 11:24
Yeah. Oh, that’s so awesome. Do you did it take a while for you to drop the anxiety and the feeling like you’re walking on eggshells? Or was that pretty natural, just because of the work environment?
Matt Ciciarelli 11:38
Yeah, it’s it was pretty quick there. I mean, I’ve only been there since, you know, like, four or five months now, at this point, but it’s, it was, I could tell right away that it was going to be an environment that was understanding of what and I can it’s also a place where I can say what, you know, what my concerns are. Oh, like I had never worked in an agency. I’ve been on the client side and never been on the agency side. So an old job, if I would, you know, before, if I had a boss, that if I had the same job with a different boss, I would have tried to fake it and say, make decisions and do it, and then ask questions later. Now I’m like, Hey, shell I got. This is what I have in mind here. You know, never I keep telling her I’ve never been on the agency side. This is all new for me. This is what I’m thinking. Where do we need to tweak? Yeah, and she’s like, Oh, this is good. This is good. Let’s do this. Let’s not, let’s not do that. Or whatever.
Kristen Carder 12:35
Is it just her energy that allows you to be more open? Like, what is that? Because that’s a huge difference. It is you faked it so much at a job once you didn’t even know what your company did. Like when you talk about faking like you’re not joking. Fake it till you make it. You faked it. Did you share that on the podcast, or you tell me that
Matt Ciciarelli 12:58
you did it on one of your you? You would ask focus folks this to give, I give. You talked about masking, yeah, and you asked for, you asked for a definition of what masking was. And I said, I it’s fake it till you make it. And I think you responded to me, asking, What do you mean? And this is funny. Like you said, this is totally ADHD. Yeah. It’s like, tell me you have ADHD. Without telling me I have ADHD. I started this job and I interviewed. It was great. I needed the job. I’m like, oh, whatever they asked me. I was like, Yeah, I could do that, of course. And I understood what they did for to an extent, like a week or two into the job, I asked somebody, and they told me something like, Okay, I got it a week later, somebody else mentioned it, and it was, it was like, in my they may have said the same thing, but my brain was like, wait a minute, that doesn’t jive with anything that I that I heard before we do what? Yeah. And then it was always like that all the time. And like, months go by and I’m like, oh my god, I can’t ask these people now, what do we do? I’ve been here four months.
Kristen Carder 14:09
What are they gonna think? I mean, I just, I am crack up every time that I hear that, because, like, when you say that you faked it before you mean it, oh yeah. Just talking about a little like, smile and nod, yeah.
Matt Ciciarelli 14:24
Like, I would go into meetings and you were marketing. Yes, I’m trying to write content and create stuff that promote what we do. And I it was a struggle, but it was, it was stressful because I’m like, find out today is this the day they’re
Kristen Carder 14:45
like, Matthew, what? Yeah, definition of our mission and vision. Okay, so you faked it like crazy. Yeah. Did it take you a while to, like, not walk on eggshells in the. Environment, or was it pretty much immediate?
Matt Ciciarelli 15:02
It was easier this time, because in this my current job, because one, the boss gets it. Two, she was much easier to talk to about these kind of things. Like, if I had a question, I felt much, much more comfortable about asking it and not being judged or not. It’s that piece, isn’t it, and it’s not like, I didn’t like other places if I asked that question, even if it was legitimate question, it was like, why are you asking me this question? You’re the director of marketing. You should know this stuff. Yeah. Oh, I hate and then, but then, in my mind, every other job I had is like, all right, the CFO knows everything about the finances. You ask him a question, boom, he has that answer at the tip of his tongue. You ask the Chief Investment Officer anything he knows it. So I should be the same. I should be the same. And if I say, Oh, let me get back to you, that’s a sign of weakness. And like, what am I paying you for? Why are you here? I mean, do you Yeah, that was very strong. And I
Kristen Carder 15:58
don’t need a cortisol, yeah, Spike, just talking about that.
Matt Ciciarelli 16:02
I don’t need to do that now because, one, I’m comfortable. Two, she gets it, and three, it’s just a much more relaxed, like her dog, who’s Irving is a great is a yellow lab who’s a seeing eye seeing as she says, a seeing eye dog school dropout and is the sweetest dog. I give him a treat every time he walks in, and it’s like he’s just right there, and
Kristen Carder 16:28
oh my gosh, it sounds like the perfect environment.
Matt Ciciarelli 16:33
It is. I It has exceeded every expectation I’ve had.
Kristen Carder 16:36
So happy for you. I’m so thank you. So happy for you. Do you have any words of wisdom for someone who’s like, I want what he has?
Matt Ciciarelli 16:47
Um, I honestly, no, I don’t, but I would say, um, just keep I don’t want to say, yeah, it’s out. I don’t want to say, keep trying. Keep trying. Because that’s a little cliche, but it’s I don’t want to, and I also don’t want to say everything happens for a reason, but I was lucky that see the way I found this job. It’s kind of a funny story is that I was driving to a basketball game to watch a buddy of mine, and I was going down the main road of the town where I used to work. And I saw and I’ve gone down that road 1000 times, and I saw this sign for this consulting firm, like, Oh, I’ve never seen that before. Oh. So I went home, I Googled it, and I saw they had a job opening. So I applied. And the woman who runs that place said she got back to me, like, the next day, which when you’re applying for jobs, is like, Oh, my God, this is awesome. That was a dopamine hit, right there. She says, Hey, I love your background. We don’t need something like this, but I know somebody who does somebody who does here she is. I’ve copied her on this email. I think you two should connect. And that was Shelly. That was Shelly, and that was two days later. I’m sitting in her on barn, which is in her backyard, where her our office is, and it was just like that. It was it was
Kristen Carder 17:59
great. So cool. So I think maybe the words of wisdom are just it is possible. It is possible to find an environment like that, right? It does take
Matt Ciciarelli 18:08
it does stars need to align? Need some luck, like, if I didn’t drive down that road and see that sign and apply for that job? So true. Google them and apply for that job, I don’t know what would happen.
Kristen Carder 18:18
Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah, ooh, what did you learn about yourself during this, like, year and a half, two year process?
Matt Ciciarelli 18:28
Professionally, I learned that it’s it. I learned that you need to be able to ask questions and admit that you don’t know something. It doesn’t have to be perfect. You know us black and white, there’s no dimmer switch, but it’s okay to have a dimmer switch. It’s okay to say, Hey, let me get back to you. Or it’s okay to say, hey, I don’t know what I’m doing here. Can you help me out? Can you guide me through this? I want to learn how to do this. So, you know, can I watch you this time? I learned it’s easier now for me to do that kind of stuff.
Kristen Carder 19:02
So why? Why is it easier? Is it? Is it you’ve done a lot of work on yourself, like self development? Yeah, does that happen?
Matt Ciciarelli 19:09
That does it does. And it’s, I think, the work that we’ve done, as far as it’s self trust, self confidence and everything, but it’s admitting that you’re not perfect. It’s the it’s getting out beyond that black and white of perfecting your humanity, yes, and knowing that who you’re talking to is going to accept that too. Because old bosses would not have accepted that. They would have come back with her claws, claws out and, yeah, looking to send me out the door. At least.
Kristen Carder 19:43
I forgot to mention in the intro that you’re a focus member. Yes, you’ve been in focus for two years, over two years. Yes, two years ish, right. So you’re an A Lister. Yeah, that’s amazing. So like the Velvet Rope of it is. Is, it is not just a VIP or an A Lister, and just being able to watch your growth through this whole process has been really, really fun, because it’s been a journey for you.
Matt Ciciarelli 20:13
It’s been, it’s fun, not fun, but it’s interesting to see other people’s journeys too. Yes, you’ve been in long enough to be what, yeah, and it’s in. And I’ve told you this before, is that I would not be where I am today. I wouldn’t you saved my marriage. You saved a lot of things. You be the tools that you’ve given me. I mean, believe me, my marriage is not perfect. There are lots of amends to be made because of the last year and a half, two years, and the math, not mathing, as we’ve talked about before, but I think knowing that those tools are there, or my wife knowing that those tools are there and just me using them, or getting knowing that I can use them has, I don’t want to say, kept her around because, but
Kristen Carder 21:02
it’s she feels hopeful because of that, because she knows what. Yes, I think
Matt Ciciarelli 21:08
there are times when she doesn’t feel hopeful, believe me, there are times. But, you know, I love her to death. We love each other very, very much. We have three kids, three beautiful kids, and it’s just, is to what? To me, there’s no other option.
Kristen Carder 21:20
Yes, I love that. Yeah. I remember our first coaching call and just how stuck you felt at the time. I can actually, like, I can see, I know I’m getting a little, like, choked up too. I can see you in my, in my mind’s eye, just feeling so defeated,
Matt Ciciarelli 21:45
yes, because, and I still had a job at that time, I was still working at that time, it was, I was, I didn’t. I felt that I couldn’t do anything right. Everything was wrong. It’s like, if I loaded the dishwasher, why are you doing it that way? The bowls go on the bottom, not on the top. And I’m like, okay, but before I would be like, well, what are you getting mad at me for? Do you want to do it? Then fine, you do it now. It’s just like, Okay, that’s a good idea. It’s I’ve learned to see, and I’m still a lot of work to do in this, but the work that I have done has made a difference. Is that seeing other perspectives
Kristen Carder 22:30
and doesn’t mean that you’re bad. There’s something wrong with you, right? If someone says, like, No, do it
Matt Ciciarelli 22:35
this way, right? And I need to get better at not being defensive, because that’s and that’s the biggest, you know, wedge between my wife and me, whenever it’s whenever things aren’t great, it’s because she says something and I’m like, Okay, fine. I’m wrong, right? I’m wrong again. Here we go. But the other perspective, like my son last week, he they lost their soccer game, then he had two shots that would have been goals, and he comes home and he’s all bummed out. I was like, All right, I’m sorry, but good effort. You know, still fun watching you play. I love going watch you play and all that kind of stuff. He goes, he’s dropping F bombs left and right. And I’m like, Oh, come on, kid. And he’s like, he’s like, Philly, Philly, teenage, yeah? And he’s like, Oh, it would have been different if I’d have made those two shots, you know, love. I’m like, yeah. Or you could just say, Hey, man, the goalie really got the really the goalie got me on those ones. So that’s the I can see that when I’m talking to him, I have trouble, trouble seeing it when it’s myself, yeah, and, and sometimes when I realize it, I do see it, it’s after the fact. And I’m like, Oh crap. We’ve already yelled at each other, we’ve already done this, we’ve already done that, and now I gotta go.
Kristen Carder 23:58
And it’s Yeah, so, so, so hard. Yeah, it’s so hard when that emotional regulation is crazy, which I can’t wait to talk about, because I know we’re gonna go there and feeling like you can’t do anything, right? That’s a tough combo, and it’s in
Matt Ciciarelli 24:19
it’s the like I’ve said before, the black and the white, the yes or the no is no, I think you’re either right or you’re wrong, right or you’re wrong, but it’s like, in doing things, it’s, I think I forget who was on your podcast that said this, but it’s like a soundboard where there’s dimmer switches.
Kristen Carder 24:35
That was Marcy Caldwell, okay, so, yeah,
Matt Ciciarelli 24:38
she was like, ADHD, or all the way up or all the way down. And I this, it to me, sometimes it can’t be in the middle, and that’s where she’s like, well, if you load the dishwasher this way, you know it gets this. And I’m like, All right, fine, right? I’ve never loaded the dishwasher right in my life. So and so it’s, it’s perspectives, and I’ve gotten. And I have so much, so much, so much more to do,
Kristen Carder 25:02
but you’ve gotten a lot better. Let’s give you credit. I
Matt Ciciarelli 25:06
tell my my therapist told me this. He goes your GPS is headed in the right direction. You’re driving 15 your wife is driving 55 but they’re all going in the right direction. Oh, I love that. And that was that encouraging. It was, it was, I’m like, can I just push the gas pedal a little more? I mean, I get it that I’m making progress. I want to make the faster progress. And I think she wants that too, and I but she does understand that. You know, two years ago, Matt would not have Yes, but not have Yes, yeah, oh, it’s so good.
Kristen Carder 25:45
Um, just getting back to the work environment you taught. You mentioned masking. Do you notice yourself masking in this new work environment?
Matt Ciciarelli 26:00
I notice it, and then I stop it. Okay.
Kristen Carder 26:03
So what can you give us some examples? Yeah, so
Matt Ciciarelli 26:08
this is this we were doing. I forget, we were talking to a client, and we had this, we were on a call, and we were on a zoom call and asking questions and this, and I, I I was thinking to myself, I’m going to ask that. I need to find this answer, but I don’t want to, I don’t want to ask it. I don’t want to ask it, and I don’t want to blurt it out, because if it, if I ask this, and I’m wrong, and it’s something that’s very, very, very basic, that I should already know
Kristen Carder 26:36
that right is like, if I should already know it. I shouldn’t ask it.
Matt Ciciarelli 26:41
Yes, yeah, yes. So we got through the call, and I slacked my my boss because we were both working at home, and I said, educate me here. What is this? Blah, blah blah, blah blah. And she goes, she comes back to me and says, let me know how I can support you. Blah blah blah. And I was like, stop right there. I was like, I’m not, I said. I said, I’m not trying to get out of doing whatever you’re asking me to do. I want to be educated so I know to do it next time. Yeah. And she said, Oh, okay, that’s great. And I even told her, it’s like, three years ago, Matt would never have asked this, Matt. Three years ago, Matt would have faked it, asked the question, not and if you got upset at me, Matt, two years ago, Matt, three years ago, Matt would have been like, Oh, God, that’s it, you know, my stuff now, yeah. Or would have just, you know, not asked the question given, you know, turned in work for the project that right didn’t make sense, didn’t make sense, didn’t make sense, or would have been completely wrong, and you would have come back to me say, you’re like, Well, what the hell is this all about? And so I said, I need to know. I want you to educate me here. And and she wrote back, she goes, this answer is, everything in a little 100 and that was right there. I was like, Oh my God. This, this is, this is awesome.
Kristen Carder 28:01
Huge trust building exercise, absolutely yes. Huge Yes. But it took you being vulnerable first, yes, yes,
Matt Ciciarelli 28:09
and taking a risk, taking a risk being vulnerable. And I think the the fact that she’s so chill, yeah, make allows me to be vulnerable. Old bosses, where it’s, you know, if you’re going to be gone for your son’s soccer game, why are you gonna have your phone? You’re gonna check your email? Why are you gonna make up those times that’s not, that’s not a environment to be, to let yourself be vulnerable.
Kristen Carder 28:34
Weird, yeah, that’s so old school. I hate it. I hate it. Everyone with ADHD knows what to do to improve their lives. You go to bed at a reasonable time, you wake up early, you make a list, you cross things off the list in order, blah, blah, blah. Like, yeah, we know what to do, but ADHD is not a disorder of not knowing what to do. It’s a disorder of knowing exactly what to do but not being able to get yourself to do it. That’s why I created focused. It’s an ADHD coaching membership for adults with ADHD. I’m a life coach with multiple certifications, and since 2019 I’ve coached over 4000 adults with ADHD from all over the world. I know what it takes to help an adult with ADHD go from Hot Mess express to grounded and thriving. I’ll teach you how to understand your ADHD brain, regulate your emotions and your behavior and accept yourself, flaws and all. And with this foundation, we’ll build the skills to improve your life with ADHD. And not only do you get skills and tools and focus, but you’re surrounded by a huge community of adults with ADHD who are also doing the work of self development right alongside of you. Dr Ned Hallowell says healing happens in community, and I have absolutely found this to be true. So if you’re an adult with ADHD who wants to figure out how to be most. Vacated from the inside out and make real, lasting changes in your life. Join hundreds of others from around the world in focused go to I have adhd.com/focused to learn more. That’s I have adhd.com/focused to check it out. For someone who is still in a job where maybe they’re feeling like they have to hide parts of themselves. What would you say to them? How would you like offer some encouragement?
Matt Ciciarelli 30:32
I would say, oh, man, it’s a tough one. Yeah. I would say, find a sounding board. Because, honest to God, I in my job where I was masking for like 10 years, I had one or two people that I could talk to, and we could say, Hey, let’s go to lunch and, and, yeah, they would either kind of give it, give it to me straight and, like, here, this is what you need to know, or I would just get things off my chest and they would be and, yeah, I mean, those, those kind of friendships are invaluable. Talk to people at home, your wife, your husband, your partner, whatever. Just get it off. Don’t hold it in, because that’s what I was doing. I would I would drive home and I’d sit and pull my driveway. I’d sit in the car and I’d be like, yeah, fold them again, and I’d be sitting in there, and I go into the house and I’d be all be drained, I’d be tired, and I’d be snapping to kids and all that kind of stuff, like, so don’t let that kind of stuff happen. Hmm, yeah, because then
Kristen Carder 31:31
you’re starting second shift. Yeah, as a dad, yes, it’s like, first shifts, done time for second shift. And
Matt Ciciarelli 31:37
back at that time, you know, this is eight years ago. At this point, the kids were 11, so little 11, and what 11, nine and three and it or four, whatever. And it was just, we’re running them to baseball, we’re running them to dance, we’re running them into a theater, or whatever the case may be. And it’s just, there’s no time to sit yeah
Kristen Carder 31:59
and feel your feelings. Oh,
Matt Ciciarelli 32:01
yeah, yeah. Oh, there’s no time to send it. By the time you sit down with I have to sit down with my wife. And I’m like, Hey, how was your day? You know, she tell me about her day, and it’s like, I’m falling asleep. We’re both falling asleep after that. And it’s like, all right, I don’t have time to talk about my day, so I’m just gonna go to bed because I got to start it all again in the morning. So it’s, you know, it wasn’t the healthiest thing, but we did what we had to do. And I know there are 1000s and 1000s of other people out there that are doing the same
Kristen Carder 32:30
thing, yeah, just trying, like, the grind of it all, yeah. I love what you said. Like you’re basically saying, find connection points to, like, relieve that pressure valve,
Matt Ciciarelli 32:41
yes, yeah. And that’s just, you just to get it off your chest. I mean, it was like, Am I really crazy here? Is this, you know, is this nuts, or do Am I, you know, what’s going on here? What am I missing? Yeah, and it’s just another, it’s like a, it’s like an independent third party, yeah, coming in and say, Hey, this is so good. Look at it from this direction. Or this is what you need to do. You know, don’t these are the these are some good questions to ask. Yeah, yeah.
Kristen Carder 33:08
I’m just so happy for you that you I think in the last podcast we did episode 291, for anyone who wants to go back, you just kept saying, I’m looking for a job. In the field, what did you say? Like a job? I went to school for a job. I
Matt Ciciarelli 33:26
went to college for yes, yeah. I didn’t want to say a real job, because I was doing a real job. I was, yeah, you know the cemetery, you’re doing a real job. I mean, the realest fallen in graves. I cut my finger off and they sewed it back on. I can still
Kristen Carder 33:41
not funny. I’m sorry for laughing. That’s all right. I laugh at it. Now it was, tell us how you did it. Did you drop a gravestone on?
Matt Ciciarelli 33:47
I dropped a grave. Yeah. So headstones are they are, you know, two pieces. You got the base, and then you got the upright part. And to put the upright part on, you have to put this stuff in there. And I was using and someone was holding it up with a crowbar, pry bar, and I was poking my finger in there to get the stuff in. Someone thought that. I said, Good, and he took it out. And it was so my dad’s a geologist. My dad was a geology professor at Penn State for years, and so I told him about it. He goes, how big was it? I said that I don’t know. So I got the point. I went back and I measured it was six inches thick, like 22 inches wide, and like 30 inches tall. And he’s like, what was it from? Where was the granite from? Was it from China? Was it from Italy? I’m like, Dad, I don’t
Kristen Carder 34:31
know, but my finger is not okay. Thanks for asking.
Matt Ciciarelli 34:35
He estimated was like seven, 800 pounds, something like that. Oh, my gosh.
Kristen Carder 34:38
Oh, I’m so sorry that happened to you.
Matt Ciciarelli 34:41
I am too. But you know, it looks back, it looks normal, a little gnarly. My hand modeling days are over.
Kristen Carder 34:47
Oh, man, that’s such a shame. Oh, yeah, well, um, I was gonna make a comment about your Philly fanatic socks. I was gonna say something like, you could model I could but Philly.
Speaker 1 35:00
Not exactly there. Okay, anyway, anyway, anyway. We’ll breathe right past
Kristen Carder 35:05
that. Yeah, I just, I’m really happy for you. I’m glad that you found a place where you feel like you you fit. And I’m curious. We love this job. We don’t want to go anywhere. We’re grateful. We’re thankful. But, like, does it give you hope for the future of working like, if you don’t stay here forever, that you have a baseline of like, what it could
Matt Ciciarelli 35:30
be? Yes, no, that’s a good point. And I hadn’t thought of that until you just mentioned it. But yes, if something would happen, and right, God forbid. And, you know, I I would feel better about going. I know what I want more. I know what I want out of the job itself. I know what I want out of the environment. I know what I want out of the people I work with, yeah, and I also know from this whole process that it’s going to take time. It would take time to find that, and I might have to take a step backwards to help the math. Math correctly.
Kristen Carder 36:06
Yes, we’ve learned that. Yes, yes. Learned so much.
Matt Ciciarelli 36:11
I if I could use a share thing, if I could turn back time, I would, I would change so many things. But and I just,
Kristen Carder 36:22
why do we have to learn everything the hard way? You know, I don’t know. I know it’s such a big fat bummer. It really is. How much do you think that the work environment impacts productivity?
Matt Ciciarelli 36:36
Oh, absolutely, because it’s the vibes, the vibe in the office is that sets the tone, yes, like, having Irving the dog next to me is like, just like, hey, Irv, how you doing, bud? And like, if I’m on a call and I like, you know, I hang up, like, Irv, that guy was an idiot, you know, whatever. Even working at home now I am so much better at it, because when I was first time I really worked at home was during covid and distractions everywhere. Three kids at home trying to be homeschooled, my wife and I both trying to hold down 40 hour week jobs and all that kind of stuff. And it was just like, you know? It was too much, yes, so I would be working, and I’d see my phone, and I’m like, oh, okay, then look at that. And here I am, 25 minutes later. Yes, I’m late for a meeting because I’ve been scrolling on Instagram, and I I put my phone. I put my phone in the other side of the room now, I put it face down, I turn the ringer off. I I don’t do that all the time, but I need to do it more. I do it sometimes. I know when I really have to hunker down and get some stuff done, I will do that.
Kristen Carder 37:56
So even working from home, your productivity is higher just because the vibe of the work environment, right? And and the people
Matt Ciciarelli 38:06
I don’t feel as it’s not as it’s not as stressful, it’s not as urgent. Yeah, yes, what we’re doing, there are deadlines and everything, but it’s not like vibe is the vibe has brought the urgency down. Yeah, if that makes sense, the work is still just as important. Yes, absolutely. And we and this is another good thing about this, this environment, we know we’re not saving lives, we’re not performing heart surgery, brain surgery, whatever, right? We’re marketing people. We’re, at the end of the day, whatever, our clients are still going to have their business. We’re just a piece of that business, but we’re we, but we’re gonna do it the best we can. But we know that. We also know that we’re there are far more important things in the world, yes, than what we’re doing that’s so good. I love it. It’s that perspective that, you know other places, yeah, and other places didn’t had, I’ve been have not had,
Kristen Carder 39:02
right? It was still, excuse me for saying this just marketing, but it was like, if you don’t do it, you’re gonna die. They’re gonna die.
Matt Ciciarelli 39:12
And, you know, the one of the, although I’ve worked in financial services before, this job for a long time, and it was, let’s do these jobs so rich people can get richer. Yeah, and I get it. Everybody wants to make the most they can. But I’m like, it’s like, it’s not. I mean, we’re i It’s hard to explain, but
Kristen Carder 39:37
it’s like, more meaningful with smaller, smaller companies where it’s there’s more, yes, exactly, more skin in the game. Yes, that’s a great way to put it, yes. Yeah, that’s great. I wanted to transition here because you recently gave a presentation for referees. Yes. First of all, you’re a referee. You’ve been one for 30 years. You must be pretty old.
Matt Ciciarelli 39:58
Thank you. Yeah. Hey, thanks for bringing it up. Thanks. Appreciate it. Yes, I’ll be 50 in March. Thank you. I appreciate that. Next 30 years as a referee, it’s amazing. Yeah, I love it. It’s I started because I needed money. Yeah, I stayed in it because I loved it. It’s cool. And I’ve made so so so, so, so many very, very good friends. Oh, I mean, I would, I don’t know where I’d be without being an official basketball referee, high school and college. And it’s just I’ve, it’s like my niche in life, I guess. And if I could have done it, you know, as a full time gig for I would have, you know, I had some opportunities, and, you know, life got in the way, and I decided to have a career and move away and everything and that. So I kind of fell off the radar. But it was, I, I love, love, love, love, doing
Kristen Carder 40:55
it. Yeah, that’s cool, yeah. So recently you gave a presentation, and of all of the things that you talked about, tell us what your topic was.
Matt Ciciarelli 41:03
It was on emotional regulation, when games when games go sideways and go haywire, how do you bring yourself back? First of all, how do you keep games from getting to that point? Yeah, and how and if they do get to that point? Because there are times when, no matter what you do, yeah, it’s gonna, games are gonna go off the rails. And when they do go off the rails, what do you do to kind of reign it back in? Yeah, and I, I wrote an article for referee magazine about this.
Kristen Carder 41:36
Cause there’s a referee magazine,
Matt Ciciarelli 41:38
yes, it’s been, it’s the it’s the foremost
Kristen Carder 41:43
is every cover, though, someone in like, a striped white and black shirt, every or an umpire, yeah? So great. Yeah, it’s, it’s been around since 1976 that’s great. Okay, so you wrote an article, yeah,
Matt Ciciarelli 41:55
I’m a freelance writer for them. I’ve been doing that for three or four years. And so I wrote an article about, you know how to reign games back in, yeah, when they go sideways. And Pennsylvania officials pi double A the interschool, high school sports association in Pennsylvania has a convention every year for all sports officials. And I had was talking to the guy at the office who, right, who runs the convention. I said, Hey, you know, wrote this article, and I’ve talked about it at a couple smaller meetings. I say, Would you be interested? You know, we can do it. He’s like, Oh, it’d be great. I thought he was going to say, just on basketball, because that’s what the article was. Was just about basketball. He says, let’s put it on a general session. Can you put it on all sports? And I walk in, there is like, 500 people here, like, Oh, my God, so
Kristen Carder 42:48
did you struggle with that? No, I didn’t come alive.
Matt Ciciarelli 42:50
No, no, I didn’t. It was fine. I didn’t. It wasn’t like, Oh, you’re Yeah, but it was, it was 100. Is a lot. Yeah, it was, it was a pretty big room. And I don’t know, I mean, I’m sure there were some people that were scrolling on their phones during it, but, you know, I saw people taking notes. I saw people taking pictures of the slides that I had up and everything. And it was, and it was, it’s and it’s funny. And I’ve told you this before, is that I’ve been doing that for 30 years. I can be in a gym with two, 3000 people in there, and it’s a high pressure game, and coaches and players are screaming, and I’m like, oh, relax, yeah, we got it. You know, you ask a question, I’ll answer it if you want to yell at me, then I’m gonna walk away. Yeah, and you know, we’re gonna have a conversation. You’re a grown adult. I’m a grown adult. Yet when I go home, you have said this before. My son doesn’t hang up his towel after he takes a shower, or, you know, someone you know, leaves their dishes in the sink instead of putting a dishwasher. And I lose my What do I have to do to get you guys understand this? And it’s this, like I can turn it on, yeah, and if I could harness that and bring it home, oh, my God, I think it would be so much easier.
Kristen Carder 44:02
Thing is, though, like, I totally get what you’re saying, but I want to relieve you of a little bit of, like, whatever self judgment there may be, because nobody triggers you like your kids. No, and I know
Matt Ciciarelli 44:16
judging myself. I’m just wishing that that would be awesome if I could do it, if I could make it as easy as that.
Kristen Carder 44:21
So true. Yeah, kids are so triggering,
Matt Ciciarelli 44:24
especially when they’re teenagers.
Kristen Carder 44:28
We both are parenting a graduating senior. Yes, our kids are exactly the same.
Matt Ciciarelli 44:33
Yes, Aaron will be 18 in three weeks. Faith will be 16 in the end of the seven New Year’s Eve, she’s a New Year’s Eve baby. And then Claire just turned 12.
Kristen Carder 44:45
I love your kids names. Those are good names. Yeah. Okay, so back to emotional regulation. Yes. What are the biggest things that you’ve learned about emotional regulation?
Matt Ciciarelli 44:56
I I’ve learned that, and this has come. Been listening to you coach, listening to you on on this podcast, is that emotions are contagious. And I’ve also learned that, and this is your line, and I even used it in the presentation, is that emotions are the fuel that drive your actions. Yes, if you’re gonna, if your head is ready to explode, the rest of your body is going to explode, and everything you do when your head is in that state is going to reflect that and and what I told this group of officials is that you can’t let yourself get to that because and when that dovetailed into the emotions being contagious, part was that you see coaches lose their minds, on the on the, on the on the bench, or on the sidelines or whatever. What? Nine times out of 10, what happens their players lose their minds too. If we lose our minds, and we’re the ones that are in control of that game as referee, as referees, there’s no hope we are. We’re doing ourselves exploding right? If the coach is exploding, we cannot match that. It’s like, what are your chemistry? Two negatives don’t make a positive. Physics, Chemistry, whatever it is, science, I actually don’t really, my dad’s a scientist, but I don’t know, but two negatives is chemistry. I think two negatives don’t make a positive. Yeah, and you know you’re, he’s, he’s blown his mind. You have to be the picture of calm. Yeah, you have to be, Hey, relax. I got it. You want to talk? Let’s talk. If you’re gonna yell, I’m gonna walk away.
Kristen Carder 46:31
Yeah? And brought an example I
Matt Ciciarelli 46:35
did. I did. So this is a friend of mine who is a major league baseball umpire. He’s so cool. Yeah, he’s a great guy, and he’s very down to earth, yeah, and he, he told me he’s come to my games because I referee basketball in a winner, and he’s home and the winners, he’s his offseason. He comes to a lot of my games, and he was and I, there was one game where I gave somebody a technical, and I just my face got red. My veins were popping in my in my neck. And he afterwards, he said, Dude, it’s just got to be another call. You can’t let it go. I said, I know. And he was telling me about an example of that really helped his career. And so this video that I’m going to show you here is, this is from like, 2016 2017 he 17. He had been in the league for a couple years, and the play had happened. And it’s the pirates in the Phillies, actually. And it’s so fun, yeah, and, and the pirates manager did not like the answer, did not like the outcome of the discussion that the umpires had. And this is how it
Kristen Carder 47:41
happens. Okay, we’re gonna show this, and Matt’s gonna walk us through it.
Matt Ciciarelli 47:45
So that’s my friend on the left, and the pirates manager. And you see, this is what I’m talking about, how emotions are contagious. Yeah, he’s blown his mind, yeah? And Alan tries to match it. Yeah? The coach is really Oh yeah. Don’t read lips, by the way, but you can see how what happens after he matches by trying to match his anger. Nothing’s good is gonna happen
Kristen Carder 48:11
here? No. And what’s interesting is that the umpire was not even upset
Matt Ciciarelli 48:16
until the coach got a start, until the manager got upset, and now they’re just going back, and now somebody has to come in and step in and separate them, yeah, and that’s not productive, no. And then so he told me about that, and I said, and he actually told me about this specific one, so I went and found it after he after he, after he told me. And I’m like, like, Al, you’re right, man, this is, this is good. And he said, Then he told me about, like, the next year we were talking about it again, he goes, and he had ejected the guy from the Houston Astros, a guy named Jose Altuve, who’s a second baseman. He’s a real short, little dude, but he’s, I don’t like the guy, but he’s the he’s a good player. What’s good players? And he’s on his downside of his career. But, and he showed me this example. So this is the opposite. This is what, okay, this is what. It’s, you know, when you don’t match the emotion, okay? So strike three, upset.
Kristen Carder 49:14
He’s getting upset. Jose. Yes, Jose is unhappy. Jose is not happy. The UMP is he’s just talking to the picture of calm,
Matt Ciciarelli 49:23
yes. And instead of See ya, it’s just a little simple, little simple, get out of here, as opposed to throwing his arm out of the socket like he did in the other one. Yeah,
Kristen Carder 49:34
yeah, yeah. What’s interesting there is that it’s almost like his calm was contagious, yes, because Jose is just walking away. It was
Matt Ciciarelli 49:46
just because, yeah, Jose was trying to get upset. Was trying to bait him to get upset. And when Al was like, nope, gone, Jose realized, all right, I’m out of here. That’s what I’m trying to do. Is not going to work.
Kristen Carder 49:56
That’s so interesting. Oh, it’s fascinating. Thing, yeah. So I’ve learned
Matt Ciciarelli 50:01
so much just by being, I mean, I’ve been his friend for years. He and my wife actually graduated high school together, but I’ve, I have just by being his friend and picking his brain, yeah, at the level at which he as an umpire, sure, I’ve, it’s made me such an absolute better official.
Kristen Carder 50:20
So what does it take to transition from the first version that was like catching the emotion of, in that case, it was the coach, and then the second version, where he just was able to hold the calm for you? Like, what do you think that’s
Matt Ciciarelli 50:40
awareness of what what could happen like right there in that first one, I guarantee you, he was just like, you’re coming at me for this. Get out of here. You know, what do you, you know, kind of I’m like, and I There are times when I’ve done that, but now I’m like, Okay, everybody, especially now, when there’s a camera in every gym and everything is live streamed, everyone’s got their phones out. One’s got their phones out. If, if I’m, if this guy’s gonna, if I’m gonna have to throw this coach out, he’s gonna throw himself out. Yeah. So what I would do, it’s like, if, in that situation, if he’s yelling at me, I would say, enough. I’ll stop you know, I’ll say you can talk to me. Um, you don’t yell at me. We’re both adults kind of thing. And I’ll give him the stop sign so everybody in the gym sees that. And then I would walk away. And then I created, what I you create that distance. And then if he comes at me again, everybody in the gym knows that, yes, I try to defuse and walk away, and he and he kept going. And if I have to throw him, that’s why, that everybody will know, yeah, that, hey, I did my job. He’s he’s the one that acting like a fool.
Kristen Carder 51:50
So how does this translate to home,
Matt Ciciarelli 51:55
the stop sign? That’s a big sigh. I know.
Kristen Carder 51:58
Oh god. Body language changed immediately. But like, how can we at least talk about it? Theoretically, yes, right, yeah. Theoretically, how can this skill set translate to home where we’re like, oh yeah, we’re gonna create some distance. We’re gonna show a little boundary here with the stop sign,
Matt Ciciarelli 52:17
yeah? So using the example of Aaron, not if he’s towels on the floor. I mean, we love him, but yeah, oh yeah, it’s gonna be on the floor. Yeah, he’s a 18 year old kid. Yeah, he’s, you know, I say, Hey, bud, put your towel up. He gets mad at himself or whatever. And I’m like, and I would be like, Yo, dude, don’t yell at me, right? But i Dude, my kids all the time, yeah, you know, then it escalates, and we go, Sure, now you’re going back and forth, right? And now it’s just like, and we do this a lot. I do this a lot with my daughter, who’s, who’s, you know, she and I are so much alike that it’s like all the time, and I’m like, and I need to get better at my wife is very, very good at it. And she goes, she If faith is going crazy, you know, getting upset. Julie would just say, Faith go, take 10 minutes. You know, we would calm it down, create that distance. Yeah, and I need to get better at me. I’m like, it’s, you’re gonna talk, I’m gonna talk louder. You’re gonna talk even louder. I’m gonna talk even louder. And because there’s so much alike, and that’s why I love her so much, is that we’re that she’s your mini me exactly, in many, many ways. Yes. So I need to be conscious of those tools, those tactics at home, because I wouldn’t give a second thought about saying, Hey, you’re gonna talk to me. You’re not gonna yell at me.
Kristen Carder 53:44
Oh, I love that. I love that to a child, yeah,
Matt Ciciarelli 53:47
but I, I, you’re like, you take the bait. I take the bait, and I it’s like,
Kristen Carder 53:54
yes, okay, so next year, when you come back on the podcast, your your work between now and then is, how do I not take that bait? Yep, yep. And you can come back and tell us about
Matt Ciciarelli 54:07
all that Xanadu at our house now. It is just a
Kristen Carder 54:10
Zen Garden, yeah, right in our home, and my child yells at me, and I say, excuse me, you want to talk to me. You’re not going to yell at me, and I don’t get upset.
Matt Ciciarelli 54:21
Yeah, like, coaches are go crazy. And there’s one guy I remember, a short, little Italian guy. He’s a good coach, good guy. He’s yelling me. I was like, I was like, Lou, like, I was like, I am more than happy. I am more than happy to talk to you. It’s like, let’s we can go out and have a bottle of wine or something like that. But you’re not gonna yell at me right now. You took the time. I’ll go talk to your team. I love this, and it’s just, I can, it’s like second nature. It’s not even second nature. It’s like the first nature when I’m doing that, yeah, on a basketball court, and it’s, it’s, it’s like, not even entering my brain when it’s at home.
Kristen Carder 54:55
I just feel like that’s so relatable, because I know that as. ADHD, or is we can be hot heads and we have such good intentions, but in the moment of that argument, or whatever the case may be, it’s like we don’t even have access to those tools. Like I know how to do it in this setting, in this setting, in this setting, but in this setting right here. For some reason, I lose my shit every single time.
Matt Ciciarelli 55:23
Yes, yeah. And work in progress. It is a work in progress. And I, I’m, there are times when I’m ashamed of it. I know I shouldn’t be, but no, I mean, I understand, yeah, but I and it’s and I’ve done it so many times and for so long that I’m like, what damage am I doing to my kids and to our relationship? And I I don’t want them to leave and go to college and not come back. My wife and her two brothers are the three closest people I have ever, ever seen. They are. I mean, I love them. They’re, they’re, they’re like, I mean, I’ve known them longer and known them longer than you know that I lived at home with my brother and my sister, and the three of them, they can, they can joke with each other, they can make fun of each other, and everyone understands that it’s a joke. That’s cool, whereas, if they would, if my brother my sister would joke with me, and I would just like, you know, claws were out, and it’s just like, we’d start hitting each other and yelling at each other. And I want my kids to be like my wife and her and my brothers in law, that’s awesome. And kudos to her parents, her mom, especially, for nurturing that in them. Awesome. You know, from when they were young. And my wife is, my wife is her mission in life is to make sure that, you know, kids want our kids want to come back home. Yes, they don’t feel bad. They don’t feel hesitant to come home and visit if they live far away, or whatever.
Kristen Carder 57:03
I am positive that your kids are gonna want to come back.
Matt Ciciarelli 57:07
I am positive. I hope so, and if they do, and we will such a gift, we will, it will be a gift, and it will be a gift that that my wife has worked so hard for, because I’m trying my best not to derail anything that she’s done, she’s, it’s, you
Kristen Carder 57:22
are a good dad. Matt, you’re a good dad. Yes, you are. And all of the work that you have done is very evident. And I know you’re not perfect, yeah, and you know you’re not perfect, and your wife knows you’re not perfect, but you’re still a good dude. Thanks making a lot of progress.
Matt Ciciarelli 57:37
Yeah, I like that super fact that on a postcard, still a good dude.
Kristen Carder 57:43
Does it tattoo? Maybe neck tattoo? Yes, there you go. That would be fire, as my kids would say, that would be fire neck tattoo. Still a good dude. I love that. Well, I appreciate you. I adore you. I’m so glad that you were able to come in today. Thank you. Just you never hesitate to share yourself with other people, with the podcast, and
Matt Ciciarelli 58:08
that’s something that focused has done for me. I would never have done that without really, I would never be comfortable doing that with anybody, any other group. Wow, yeah, that’s really thank you for creating that environment, because it is so it’s, it’s, it’s nurturing.
Kristen Carder 58:25
It’s very good. What a great word. I appreciate that. Well, listener, if you need a nurturing environment, if you need somewhere to connect with other ADHD ers and with Matt himself in the flesh, come join us in focused go to I have adhd.com to learn more, and thank you for being here My
Matt Ciciarelli 58:44
pleasure. You know I’ll be here anytime. Quit your
Kristen Carder 58:47
job, be my co host. That would be so fun. What’s that? I said? Quit your job, be my co host. We’ll just do this every day. Okay, all right, guys, we’re gonna talk to you next week. Bye, bye, if you’re being treated for your ADHD, but you still don’t feel like you’re reaching your potential. You’ve got to join focus. It’s my monthly coaching membership where I teach you how to tame your wild thoughts and create the life that you’ve always wanted, no matter what season of life you’re in or where you are in the world. Focused is for you. All materials and call recordings are stored in the site for you to access at your convenience. Go to Ihaveadhd.com/focused for all the info you.
