Kristen Carder 0:05
Welcome to the I have ADHD podcast, where it’s all about education, encouragement and coaching for adults. With ADHD, I’m your host, Kristen Carter and I have ADHD, let’s chat about the frustrations, humor and challenges of adulting, relationships, working and achieving with this neurodevelopmental disorder, I’ll help you understand your unique brain, unlock your potential and move from point A to point B. Hey, what’s up? This is Kristen Carter, and you’ve tuned into the I have ADHD podcast. I am medicated, caffeinated, regulated and ready to roll. Today’s episode is gonna be a good one. We are gonna give you all kinds of permission to outsource. That’s what we’re doing today. We’re writing a permission slip to you, my dear listener, to outsource the boring, annoying, mundane and like simple but difficult tasks in your life, and I think you’re gonna love every second of this episode. Of course, I need to remind you to like, subscribe, comment down below. If you are listening on Apple or Spotify, I would just so love it if you hit that rating button, give us a little five star rate. Give me a little shot of dopamine, just like inject it into my arms. I need it. I love it. If you’re watching on YouTube, welcome. This channel is very new. It is very, very, very new, and we are just trying to grow it. So share this with your friends. Hit that subscribe button, do all the things that the YouTubes do that would be so helpful, that would be so wonderful. I’m glad you’re here. Come in and get cozy. This is a space where we chat about living with ADHD, and sometimes we have experts in the room to talk about the most recent research, and sometimes we have just straight up. ADH Dears, just regular schmegular. ADH deers here to discuss what life is like living with ADHD, and that’s what we’re doing today. I’m here with longtime focus member, Bill Adair, and I really want to read his bio for you, because it’s fascinating. He is such a fun person, like, yes, he’s a regular schmegular ADHD. Er, but you got to listen to this bio. So Bill is creative and executive director of art Philly, a non profit that supports and promotes Philadelphia based artists and arts organizations art Philly is currently organizing what now a five week city wide arts festival for the 200 and 50th birthday of the country in 2026 Bill has a BA in history from Penn and an MA in urban cultural planning from UCLA, which, when I read that, I was like, Oh my gosh, you’re a nerd.
Bill Adair 2:53
Yeah, total nerd. I didn’t realize 100% I had no idea.
Kristen Carder 2:58
How did you get through Penn and UCLA with ADHD,
Bill Adair 3:07
with a lot of energy, pain, stress, blood sweat and tears, blood sweat and tears, having no, no idea that I had ADHD, Wow, and yeah, and also an army of help from other people.
Kristen Carder 3:24
I love it. Well, welcome to the show.
Bill Adair 3:26
Thank you so thanks. I’m excited to be here. I’m so honored,
Kristen Carder 3:30
so glad to have you. We did get to meet last year at our in person event, VIP day, and that was super fun. I walked to VIP. No, that’s so fun. Just great to have you. You’re a Philly native. Have you always lived here?
Bill Adair 3:45
No, because when I went to grad school in UCLA, I lived out there in Los Angeles, and lived out there for about six or seven years afterwards. So totally different kind of city, but Philly’s my heart. So yes,
Kristen Carder 3:57
same. I just it. It lives inside of me.
Bill Adair 4:00
Yeah, go birds. Go birds. Baby,
Kristen Carder 4:03
seven and two right now. Can you even believe it? Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. Knock on wood. Knock on wood. Okay, so tell me about your ADHD journey. When did you get diagnosed with ADHD? Because you said you went to Penn, which is an Ivy League school prior to ADHD diagnosis, yeah.
Bill Adair 4:24
Well, I will say that I always knew that things were really hard for me. Always like, since I was a little kid, I felt like other people were always more organized, and, you know, they could figure out what books to take home at the end of the day, and they had, like, neat piles of paper, and I had, like, you know, you know, messy piles of paper everywhere in my desk, the messiest desk in class, blah, blah, blah, bring I would bring home every book that I had from my desk. In case, every day, my mom had to sew me a bigger bag than everyone else, because I couldn’t ever remember which stuff to take home. Yeah, so I dragged it all back and forth. So I always knew that stuff was harder for me. But, you know, I liked school, even though there were some things that were just, like, really complicated for me to figure out how to do, but there were other things that actually were like, easier for me to do, like, out of the box stuff, you know, like sometimes, like the creative projects or whatever. And I went to school in the 70s where, you know, they promoted creative projects. So I got support for that side of me, which I was very lucky to have happen, even though I also always felt, you know, like a little lazy, little irresponsible, little unreliable, and that I grew up in a household, you know, first generation immigrants, and you know, like fun and creativity, like they didn’t get you far in life when you were trying to collect the potatoes in order to not starve right at the end of the day. So being responsible and reliable was what it took. Yes, right? So it was complicated at home that way. I felt like, you know, I kind of grew up feeling like I was lazy and irresponsible and unreliable, and I still fight with that, you know, those inner voices right now. But anyway, I had enough things going for me in the 1970s in school as a little kid, yeah, that I got, I always got support from teachers, which made a huge difference. But then, yeah, I mean, going to school, you know, it was like crazy to go to a super high competitive school, a highly competitive school, because, you know, it was basic, you know, it was like a rush to see how much you could get done every week, you know, like that. You You know, we’d get ridiculously complicated and hard and just giant assignments. And that was really, when I, you know, I could, to a certain extent, kind of fake my way through high school and middle school, but you can’t fake your way through an Ivy League school. Imagine that would be impossible. So my first year, I really, like, I woke, you know, I it was, it was very eye opening, and my grades reflected it, yes. And I was like, wait, I’m a good student. What happened? And I had to teach myself, you know, at the time, there was just very little support for anyone that was like, you know, at all. Neuro divergent, neuro atypical. And, you know, it was just like, all right, you figure it out. So I did. I had to figure it out myself fast. You know how to, you know how to read, you know, like five books a week, dang, or pretend I did
Kristen Carder 7:35
right, right enough to write the paper and get a decent grade on it. Exactly.
Bill Adair 7:40
Yeah, I learned to, I learned to speed up the process of getting things done. Yeah, because I had no choice, because I wanted to succeed. Yeah, first generation college goer, I was not going to fail at this. So what was that like in your family to be the first generation college goer attending an Ivy League? They must have been complicated, beyond proud, beyond proud, and also a little worried that, like, you know, that I somehow was going to get too big for my britches. Put on notions as, as we say, you know, and, and is
Kristen Carder 8:16
that such a European thing? I don’t mean to, like make it a thing, yeah, but is that, like a very I feel like we inherited that kind of perspective from our European ancestors. And I’m just wondering if you agree with that or not.
Bill Adair 8:36
Yes, it’s a double edged sword, because, yes, my parents wanted us to succeed, but they did not want us to look down on them, of course. And they didn’t want us to get proud, right? And I think that is like a Northern European, certainly like, you know, my grandparents from Ireland, you know, you just, you don’t, you don’t expect too much from life, yeah, because it could disappoint you,
Kristen Carder 9:04
and that played out in their history for sure,
Bill Adair 9:08
yeah, for good reason, right? Yeah. But I felt a little bit of class betrayal, honestly, when I went to this fancy school with a lot of wealthy people and my, you know, my father was a landscape gardener, so I identified more with the people who were, like, gardening and cleaning the cleaning the hallways than I did with most of my fellow students. But it was sheer determination Kristen that, like, got me through that and, um, you know, in the end, it was an amazing experience. And once again, like, there was stuff that was super hard, but other things that were maybe came a little bit easier, which was the creative stuff. So, you know, I was editor of the, you know, the magazine, and, you know, worked in like, you know, theater, and it was, you know. So there were opportunities for somebody like me that I found fairly quickly. But let me tell you, it was not easy.
Kristen Carder 9:58
Yeah, at what point? Eight. Were you diagnosed with ADHD, yeah.
Bill Adair 10:01
So not until I was 55 Stop it, yeah. So not so long ago. I mean, I know I look considerably younger than 55 actually, I’m actually considerably older than 55 but I did, and it was, you know, after like, how many years of therapy, Kristen, have I been through? And no therapist, no teacher, no one ever suggested that it was, you know, I think you know, as you know it was like, if you were traditionally successful, people just assumed that you
Kristen Carder 10:34
couldn’t possibly hard to get a diagnosis. Yeah, when someone knows what you’ve accomplished,
Bill Adair 10:40
yeah, yeah. And, you know, I mean, yeah. I know that sounds a little weird to say, but it’s, it was true, like, you know. And even after the diagnosis, people were like, That can’t be true. Bill, you know, that’s just, you know, there’s been a lot of kind of, you know, pushback on my trying to accept and be open and out about someone with ADHD, because, like, Yeah, but, look at all that you’ve accomplished. It’s like, yeah, and there’s a reason I’m freaking exhausted. I always say, feel like the walking wounded, yes, at what cost, at what cost, exactly right, and in retrospect. But like, did you need to go to an Ivy League school bill? Or could you have actually gone somewhere that would have made your life a lot less stressful? And, you know, and I was anxious and blah, blah, blah, anyway, yeah, my heart too, for that, for that kid, yeah, I felt like I needed to do those things.
Kristen Carder 11:31
But, yeah, so was it a therapist, or it
Bill Adair 11:35
was a therapist? She’s the best therapist. I mean, she was just fantastic. God bless. Yes. And, you know, we talked all the time about overwhelm, overwhelm, as we called it. She was this great Jewish therapist that I called Dr Ruth. She was amazing. We talked about overwhelm every week. And, like, you know, after about a year, she was like, Bill, it sounds like you have the symptoms of ADHD. And I was like, what is that? What do you mean? Like, you know, I don’t, you know, I didn’t even know what that, you know, I knew that, like, people called me hyperactive when I was a kid, that’s what they called you then, right? Yeah, but you know, I didn’t even really know what it was. And she talked me through it, and I saw her for another couple of years, and it was totally life changing. So like to actually feel like I had an explanation for why things, part of why, you know, I’ve been anxious my whole life and stressed and, you know, and why, just things always seemed harder, yeah, yeah. You know, I felt like a little I had a little bit of a victim mentality, because I was like, wow, you know, I see other people do these things, and it doesn’t make them seem exhausted at the end of the day. Why does it seem like it, you know, it’s just so hard for me to even, like survive the day, you know, in in this, you know, at college or at work or whatever, and so a lot of shame, releasing, you know, at finally having an explanation, and also a little bit of like a, Oh, great. So now I have a disability on top of everything else, right?
Kristen Carder 13:13
Almost like that victim mentality, kind of like hooking you in Exactly, yeah. I mean, that’s understandable, though. And to be fair, you were a victim, like of your ADHD, true, right? Like you didn’t know true. You sought help. Nobody really gave it to you. There was no explanation, and things were legitimately harder for you,
Bill Adair 13:38
yeah, and they didn’t know, right? And I didn’t know, right? I didn’t even know what to ask for, right, necessarily, other than, you know, how do I
Kristen Carder 13:48
how do I become more organized, right? Give me the three steps.
Bill Adair 13:52
Give me study skills. I just need better study skills, right, right? I just need to be more organized. I just need to be more responsible. Yeah, you know, I’m not living up to my potential. That was the whole thing.
Kristen Carder 14:03
I mean, that is just like, such a huge red flag for ADHD. Anybody who feels like they’re not living up to their potential, get a screening for ADHD. Maybe it’s 100% maybe it’s not ADHD, but like, that is the most read of red flags, right?
Bill Adair 14:18
Exactly. It’s like, actually, I am living up to my potential Exactly. I’m trying to exceed it. Give me a break.
Kristen Carder 15:12
Yes, oh, my goodness. Okay, so you were diagnosed. Did you decide to go on medication?
Bill Adair 17:54
I decided to go on an anti anxiety medication, which I’ve taken ever since. How has that been for you? It’s been very helpful, yeah. So I don’t take a stimulant, but I take an anti anxiety, and I feel like it makes getting through the day. It makes the like tougher projects seem a little easier. I’m less irritable, I’m less overwhelmed, and part of that, less, you know, part of the lessening of the overwhelm is the medication.
Kristen Carder 18:25
Yeah, that’s fantastic. Definitely recommend it. That’s fantastic. So what has your kind of journey been like since being diagnosed, medicated, having an understanding like, what changes do you feel like you’ve been able to embody since that explosion of, like, understanding about yourself?
Bill Adair 18:49
Yeah, so I guess I feel, I feel like I should also say it wasn’t quite an explosion of understanding, it’s been gradual. I mean, there was part of me that was like, you know, as I said, hugely relieved, and also like, Great, now I have another you know, or I have a discipline on top of my anxiety. I also, like, get to claim another disability, right? But it actually has taken me a while to, like, fully accept that this is true about me, you know. I think in a lot of ways I’ve had, you know, and maybe it’s old fashioned values or, you know, just like that I need that I’ve needed to shed like, you know, just about sort of mental illness. I know ADHD is not a mental illness, but anxiety, my anxiety, I consider my anxiety to be a mental illness that I’ve worked on and treated. But, you know, something that is, you know, a neuro divergency, something is like, physiologically different about me. It has been hard for me to even like, is this true? Is even a real thing, which I know is a cliche, but I have gone through that and also like, if it is a real thing, then is it really true for me? And. And, you know, I think that that that’s a process. It’s not a straight trajectory. It hasn’t been for me. There’s still days I’m like, really, is this really true, you know, and, or is it just like, you know, old messages, like, you’re just lazy, irresponsible and unreliable bill and it’s just, you know, it’s just a flaw. It’s not, you know, a physiological reality. And so I think I’m a lot more in my skin about it than I used to be. And honestly, you know, being a part of focus, I know this isn’t an advertisement for focus, but being a part of your coaching program has really helped meeting other people that have had it and have had similar experiences using a lot of the tools that I’ve learned from you and others. Having my own private ADHD coach, I’m talking about it in therapy. Those have all been part of the like, you know, the you know, moving towards an understanding that this is my reality and it’s okay, and I need to understand those limitations and figure out how to deal with them rather than fight them.
Kristen Carder 21:06
I so appreciate you naming the experience of grappling with whether or not this is true, especially true for you. You know, do I just need to try harder and or is there something else going on here? I think a lot of listeners will resonate with that experience, because there’s a lot of messaging out there that’s like, ADHD isn’t really real, and this is just like a childhood thing, or this is just for people who want an excuse, and we have that own programming inside of us. You had 55 years of programming of like, I just need to do better. I just need to try harder. I just need to, like, figure out what the thing is that I’m missing.
Bill Adair 21:56
If I just collected more potatoes, everything would be fine.
Kristen Carder 22:00
Tell tell us about this, because I’m obsessed with your thinking on this. Tell us about the potatoes.
Speaker 1 22:09
Well, two of my grandparents were from Ireland, so you know, they literally grew up having to collect potatoes. Their families had to focus on like growing their own food every day and working their butts off, or they would starve. So I feel like, and I knew my grandmother, I mean, she lived to be 105 she was one hearty woman, wow. And you know, so, and my father absorbed that, of course, having two immigrant parents, of course. So there was, you know, work was based, was how you survived. It wasn’t like for purpose or meaning or all the like luxuries that I’ve gotten to, like, you know, to actually experience. It was like, how you actually like, if you didn’t collect the potatoes enough, winter would come and you would all starve, and that was only two generations away. That’s wild from me. Yes, yeah. I mean, my group in, like, medieval Ireland, right? I mean, it seemed that way, you know, no, no water, no, you know anyway, and I knew her. Yeah, I have a funny story. I hope it’s okay to tell. I don’t Yeah, I was, like, a teenager, and, you know, wanted to sleep till noon every day. I woke up at like, eight o’clock just to, like, go pee. Came back. She’d made my bed, and she was like, You are not going back to sleep. Find something to love this in her Irish bro, which I can’t really replicate, but, yeah, no, she was amazing.
Kristen Carder 23:36
So that, like, work. We work to avoid death.
Bill Adair 23:42
That’s right, that’s embedded in your DNA, exactly, the potatoes.
Kristen Carder 23:46
And like, we got to go collect potatoes. And when enough potatoes have been collected, then we’re safe,
Bill Adair 23:52
then we’re safe and and never, and never enough potatoes collected, right? Because you can never really be safe, because next year there might be a famine or, you know, whatever. I mean, yeah. So worth was very connected to productivity. I mean, it’s true for our hustle culture generally in America, right? But it was especially true for like, an immigrant family,
Kristen Carder 24:18
Wow, and so how that’s still something that you’re noticing in yourself?
Bill Adair 24:25
Totally, there’s the potatoes.
Kristen Carder 24:28
It’s so cute, the way you talk about it like, it’s very endearing, but I can imagine that it’s also distressing.
Speaker 1 24:35
Yeah, it is, because on any given day, I don’t feel like I’ve ever collected enough potatoes. Metaphorically, you know, it’s just like, I feel like I’ve never there’s no such thing as productive enough
Kristen Carder 24:50
that’s gonna resonate with everybody listening. Because we don’t ever feel like we’re done totally. We don’t ever feel like. We focused well enough, we were consistent enough, we were productive enough. And so many of us measure not only our worth but our freedom to rest. Like, am I allowed to take a break? Well, let me look at my list. What did I get done? What didn’t I get done? Yeah, and it’s like such a perpetual hamster wheel. Do you feel like you’re able to extricate yourself from the wheel
Bill Adair 25:34
at times? I wish I could say that I can do it all the time, and I can see that it’s irrational, especially at this point in my life. I’m 62 and you know, my father was retired for two years by the time he was my age, and both of my siblings are retired. So it’s like,
Kristen Carder 25:53
I still, you’re still collecting potatoes. I still feel
Bill Adair 25:56
like, if I don’t, yes, I It’s irrational.
Kristen Carder 26:03
Do you work because you love it? And I feel like you’re gonna say yes, do you work because you love it or because you need to collect the potatoes? And the answer is, yeah,
Bill Adair 26:13
for sure, yeah. I almost feel like, I mean, there’s purpose in the work that I do inherently because I believe in my work. But also I feel like I don’t know what my purpose would be if I wasn’t collecting potatoes every day. So that’s yeah. Can I obligate it?
Kristen Carder 26:30
Can I tell you my perspective, and this is as someone who’s 44 so I am not there, but I kind of think retirements a scam. Yeah? Right. I mean, like, I don’t want to stop with the purpose, right, you know, and not that our only purpose is found in work, right, right, right, yeah, but my kids are going to grow up, and they’re going to have their own kids, and they’re going to be living their lives and, like, I don’t play golf, no, I don’t golf, like I don’t play pickleball. I don’t blame I don’t like. I want to have meaningful work, as long as the Lord allows me to, Yeah, same.
Bill Adair 27:13
I think I’ll always work. Yeah, I would like to feel like I am choosing,
Kristen Carder 27:19
aha. That’s to work
Bill Adair 27:22
and not, you know, I would like to let go of the need to prove my worth through productivity on any given day, as opposed to working, because it gives me purpose and structure and joy, you know, even a meaningful contribution to the right and feeling like I’m impacting, yeah, yeah. So anyway, I mean, I’ve, you know? I mean, I’m jealous of my siblings. They have fantastic lives as retired people, and they keep themselves very engaged and busy. Yeah, it’s just a little different for me, you know? I think,
Kristen Carder 27:57
yeah, yeah. And part of that might be the hyperactive, yeah. ADHD, like the Chugga. Chugga. Internally. You want me to read them book and
Bill Adair 28:10
read, yeah? 10 minutes, sure, half an hour, sure. But what about the rest of the day? Yeah, yeah, dude. I Yeah, good point. I hadn’t actually thought about that, that it could be another benefit to ADHD. I know it’s not a gift, right, but it has some advantages, right? Yeah, and I think maybe being driven at times is
Kristen Carder 28:30
that energy. Like, who else has that? Right? Right? Like, look around, there are so few people in the world that just have the drive, the energy, the internal engine, yeah, you know. And like, I don’t think that shits off at it at any given age. It’s like, right, right. Yea.
Bill Adair 28:49
I’m just a little more exhausted at the end.
Kristen Carder 28:53
Okay, I want to shift into chatting about the reason why I asked you to come on the pod, because, no, I’ve loved all of this, but I reached out to you because you shared something in our Slack group. So for the listener, my focus ADHD coaching program, we have our community hang out on Slack. It’s not on social media, because why would any buddy with ADHD hang out on social media? We get stuck there all day long, and it’s much more personal it is. It does feel really connected, and you shared a huge win that you made the choice to hire someone, or some, a couple people to help you with the mundane things, the day to day, mundane things around the house, and what it did for you was allow you to put so much more of yourself into the work that you love. And. Give you the brain space to do that. And I, my mind was blown.
Bill Adair 30:04
Well, this was your idea. I mean, I’ve heard you say several times, you know, when you can, why not hire someone to be your frontal cortex, yeah, yeah, to actually, like, help you with some of the executive functions that don’t come naturally. And so, you know, I absorb that over time. And so, yeah, I have actually tried to, and, you know, also, there’s happiness research that demonstrates that, like, you know, that time abundance is, you know, much more important than, like, money abundance, right? So feeling like my time is freed up to do things that I find meaningful, rather than, you know, okay, work a few extra hours, get a few you know, or have a side gig and make more money, or whatever, it’s less important to me than finding time to do the things that actually matter to me. So hiring people to do things that I that are drudgery for me has been kind of a game changer.
Kristen Carder 30:58
Oh, I love it. Okay, let’s start at How did you know that you needed help? Yeah, well, what were the signs
Bill Adair 31:07
I’ve known my whole life and I needed help with things like paying bills and paying parking tickets before they expire, right? Philly, right? We get a parking ticket a week, and they’re, you know, whatever,
Kristen Carder 31:19
70 bucks. 70 bucks. I know, because I get them all,
Bill Adair 31:23
they’re not even valid parking tickets, but you still have to, like, contest them and blah, blah, blah, blah, anyway, you know, just all those things like paperwork is the enemy, and has been my whole freaking life, yeah, you know. And so I finally, I finally hired someone to take care of, you know, I married someone to do some of it, but that’s not
Kristen Carder 31:44
really, what part did he take care of,
Bill Adair 31:47
um, you know, he takes care of a lot of the like, you know, oh, we have to have somebody, you know, come and, like, fix the heater, or whatever the water heater breaks. Okay, he’s good at stuff like that.
Kristen Carder 32:00
But you know, that’s why partnerships are so important.
Bill Adair 32:02
Yeah, they help a lot. Yeah, those arrangements help a lot. I mean, that’s share. It’s shared. Yes, it’s shared household duties, yes, yeah. And we do actually share duties, which is really nice, but you know, I’m still responsible for my own paperwork, yeah? And for, like, picking up my own dry cleaning and going to the drug, you know, getting picking up my drugs, my prescriptions and all those things, and folding my own laundry. And I have figured out ways, honestly, I have figured out ways Kristen to hire people to do those things, which I absolutely hate, and I’ve always wait, sucked at it?
Kristen Carder 33:27
Yes, yes. Okay, I misunderstood when you said, I absolutely hate I thought you were saying you hate that you hired people, but you meant you hate those tasks.
Bill Adair 34:26
I hate those tasks. Okay, no, I don’t hate having people do it, right?
Kristen Carder 34:31
I think that it’s so important to really make it clear that you and I both understand this is not going to be accessible to every single person. 100% Yeah. 100% Yeah. But there are a lot of people listening who do have money to spend, who feel like I shouldn’t spend my money in that way, right, right? And these, this is what we really want to speak. Speak to is like, yes, you should, like, you’re absolutely allowed to, right? And we want to write a little permission slip for that, because it did you. Let me start here. Did you have the thought at any point? Well, I can do this stuff myself, so I should,
Bill Adair 35:22
yeah, of course. I mean, for like, 57 years,
Kristen Carder 35:25
so for five and a half decades, yeah.
Bill Adair 35:29
I mean, you know, probably for 60 years I felt that way. I mean, it’s only been relatively recently that I have kind of embraced this idea. And you know, I very much thank you for writing me the permission slip. And if I can help anyone else write their permission slips, it does make a big difference. And of course, I feel lucky that I can do that. And I know many, many, many, perhaps most people just don’t have any kind of, like, you know, money in reserve to do that. But I will say it’s not like I’m rich. I mean, we prioritize having the money, you know, we’ll take, you know, one less trip a year, or days fewer days at the shore or whatever, you know, yeah, we’ve made, I do feel like we’ve made some sacrifices in order for me to prioritize, you know. So you want me to tell you a little bit about, tell me everything, yeah. And I think your business this is, I think this idea came from you, the idea of hiring a part time personal assistant, which sounds super fancy, but it’s anything, but, I mean, yeah, right, exactly. I mean, we hired this guy who’s, like, he’s a Dungeons and Dragons dude right out of college. He’s, there’s nothing fancy about him. But you know, when I got the idea, which I think was from you of, like, trying to find somebody who could help me just do some paperwork, run some errands, you know, do things that I really didn’t feel like I had time, or I wanted to prioritize other things, like, you know, being able to, like, go to a work function that I really wanted to go to, or Something like that, I started asking around. I think I know I didn’t post on Facebook. I started asking friends, yeah, do you know of someone and a friend? Like, within days, I found this guy, and he was looking for something. He works at a tennis shop. He’s out of college, will eventually go to graduate school, but he’s like, you know, right now, I’m just kind of like, you know, hanging out, figuring out who I am, you know, you know, playing Dungeons and Dragons. So I was like, Okay, so are you down for working two or three hours a week for me to do, you know, drudgery, but you know, we’ll hang out, we’ll have fun. And he was like, Yeah, you know. He was like, I really like working with people, and this will give me a chance to, like, you know, just, you know, like, do something different. He was like, looking for something kind of fun and different to do. And I was like, Oh, it’ll be different. Um, so, um, yeah, he’s, he’s helped me, um, from everything from paying the, you know, parking tickets or contesting them more likely, um, to, you know, um, couple times a month he’ll go pick up prescriptions, takes the dry cleaning, you know, from, from things like, you know, I feel like I’m always getting letters from, you know, business letters of some sort, like, from my, like, you know, my retirement company, or somebody who wants something from, please fill out this form, you know, or you did this wrong. Or, you know, like, I haven’t had my own business in Philadelphia for like, four years, but I still get letters from the city of Philadelphia. You haven’t filled out your tax forms for the city. It’s like, I don’t have so he’s taking you. He takes care of that. Yeah, he’s finally, like, resolved that for me, because he can, like, afford to be on the phone for an hour. He gets paid for it in order to solve these problems that I’m like, if I’m on the phone for an hour, I’m a mess, yeah, total mess. So it’s taken a lot of stress off me. It’s, you know, it’s, I just love have this list on my phone that I make throughout the week. Okay, I was wondering how you did this? Yeah. And I then, like, on on Thursday mornings, he comes in, and I get up a little early in order to be there for him. He comes into the house. We meet in my dining room, and we go through the list, and we talk about, okay, and he he does stuff during the week, like when we’re not together as well. So he’ll, he’ll, you know, tell me what’s what he’s accomplished from my list, we’ll go through it. And I love checking those things off, and you didn’t
Kristen Carder 39:27
even have to do them, and I didn’t have to do them. Yes, is it? Has it been hard for you to figure out what to tell him to do? Was that difficult at first? Because I feel like that is the pushback that I get sometimes when I suggest that someone hire an assistant, they say, I don’t even know what I would have them do.
Bill Adair 39:47
Well, it’s become more clear over time, sure. So there has been a learning curve for both of us, right? So it’s gotten easier to figure out what things he’s good at or what things I really have. To take care of myself. Like, if there’s a ton of, like, follow up questions and things like that, it’s sometimes just easier for me to take care of it. Yeah, but yeah. I mean, it’s been a process, sure, of trying to figure out how to maximize his capacity, but it’s worked. And, you know, there are things like, you know, he has my credit card numbers. Yes, he has my password for my email. So I didn’t give those things to him at first, of course, right? You know, we built some trust, yeah, over, you know, a month or two in, or, you know, before I started giving him, you know, the keys to the kingdom or whatever. Yeah, and there’s still things that I think I wouldn’t have him do. I can’t really think of an example at the moment, but I’m not gonna have him call my doctor’s office and, like, talk to my doctor, sure, sure. I mean, that’s just stuff I have to do, yeah, but he can cancel an appointment that I know I can’t get to and reschedule it, yeah, so. Or, like, you know, order prescriptions, or, you know, you know, he makes, like, our vet appointments and things like that, and, you know, stuff that just drive me crazy,
Kristen Carder 41:10
hang over your head, take up brain space. Feel like I got to do it. I got to do it. I don’t want to do it. I don’t want to do it. Just like, always there nagging at you, and now you put it on the list. And this, Dungeons and Dragons, gentleman takes care of it. He takes care of it. I am obsessed.
Bill Adair 41:29
Yeah, it’s really great. And then the other thing is, is that we ask, we do have someone? We’re privileged enough to have someone who comes in and cleans the house, and she would come every other week for years. And then, you know, I was just been I was thinking, I was listening to you, and I was like, Are there other things that we could have her do, like laundry, for instance, which I also hate doing. And I especially hate folding laundry, you know, the classic, like, you know, we would have clean clothes in piles, piles around, you know, it’s just like crazy. And so I asked her, if we if we had you come in every other if we have to come in every week, could would you be willing to do my laundry and fold it? And she was like, of course. And she does the most amazing job. Like, like, things are so nicely folded, way better than you. Yeah, I don’t think my T shirts have ever been folded, ever until they met her, and now they’re perfectly folded.
Kristen Carder 42:30
Yeah, she do your partner’s laundry too.
Bill Adair 42:33
She does it sometimes, and she does, like, the joint library, library. This is a strange part of dementia? Is it ADHD, or is it dementia? Oh, now, do you do that? Do you substitute words?
Kristen Carder 42:48
And my husband does not think it’s cute, like he gets so annoyed. He’s like, What are you saying? And then I get mad at him because I’m like, obviously I meant laundry, right? But he takes it so literally. So he’s then, like, thinking about libraries. And I’m like, Why can’t you find this cute?
Bill Adair 43:12
Yeah, I’m glad you don’t feel like it’s early onset.
Kristen Carder 43:15
No, you do not have dementia. This is ADHD.
Bill Adair 43:18
My favorite. One of those is I asked my husband once, do we have, do we have a long attention span? And I meant to ask, Do we have a long attention extension cord? And yeah, is that an ADHD thing?
Kristen Carder 43:31
I think, I think, yeah, I like it. I like it. I mean, I don’t have any listener I don’t have any data or like research to back this up. I have a lot of anecdotal evidence for it,
Bill Adair 43:40
though, you’ll know if I have full dimension a year. Yeah, turned out it was early.
Kristen Carder 43:44
We’ll keep tabs on you.
Bill Adair 43:46
Anyway, I, we, he, she does the joint laundry, okay, like, you know, like, napkins and so. And it’s great, good. It’s amazing. And it actually it really helps her. She’s like an immigrant from Poland, and she needed more work, and she was delighted to get it. And we do it is a little bit of a stretch for us to have someone come in every week, a financial stretch, yeah, but it is, I can’t tell you what joy it is for me to come home and have my laundry done and folded. And, you know, I come home from work exhausted almost every day my job is super intense. And, you know, and those kinds of things, just like, they really, like they help me get through another day. Wow, right? Like, I don’t have to come home and look at dirty laundry or look at unfolded laundry, and then feel even more tired. You know, it’s not like I’m gonna do it right, but I just feel doubly tired, tired after, you know,
Kristen Carder 44:53
a laundry pile is, is it like an expectation on you 100%
Bill Adair 44:57
and it’s it’s harder for us. Yeah, right, it’s just harder for us, yes.
And so I just You asked a question. You’ve asked this question a few times over the years, like, what if this was easy or easier? And I really try to have that in my head, like, what if having a really, you know, like, a nice house was easy, a clean house was easy, and this is a way to make it easier,
Kristen Carder 45:25
yes, and then that, in turn, just makes existing easier.
Bill Adair 45:31
Yes, it makes me better at my job, and it just makes me better at my life.
Kristen Carder 45:34
So can you talk about that a little bit? How does it make you better at your job when you have outsourced these other drudgery tasks. I love how you labeled it drudgery. Drudgery. Yeah, it’s a perfect word. How has that made you better at your job? How has that made the potato collecting even better?
Bill Adair 45:57
All right? Well, okay, so let’s mix the metaphors. We’re gonna use spoons to collect,
Kristen Carder 46:02
okay, potatoes, okay, let’s bring in some spoons.
Bill Adair 46:05
Bring in some spoons. Um, I definitely have a very limited number of spoons, yeah, on any given day. And my job right now is very intense, and it takes up, I would say, 80% of my spoons, right? So if I so say I have 20, 20% of my spoons left, I’d rather use those to, like, take a hike, yeah? Or, like, organize a birthday party for my husband, yeah. Or, like, call an old friend connection with my college friends? Yes, yes. You know, organize a zoom call or, like, go up to New York and see i Last month, I went up and saw a couple of my friends read their poems at a bookstore. They were so freaked out and surprised. That is so fun spoons, right? And I’d rather use my spoons for things that actually, like, bring my life meaning and purpose. I feel like I’m lucky enough to do that, yeah. But if I don’t have to use a spoon on my laundry or, like, on parking tickets, or like, you know, to remember to go pick up my prescription, then I, you know, I’d rather use it for other things. And so, yeah, I mean, it seems clear when I talk about it like that, that it’s worth it. And, you know, most of the time I feel like it is, I mean, I still have a little residual guilt, sure about, you know, like, who am I? Like, too big for my britches, putting on notions, yeah, like paying somebody to go pick up my drag queen. Who do I think I am? Yeah, but it’s not about that. It’s like, I just, I feel like I’m just, it’s just reality for me. I don’t think I’m better than anyone else. I just, in fact, it’s like understanding that I have limited capacity.
Kristen Carder 47:57
You summed it up so perfectly, just in that phrase, like, it’s not about being better, it’s about understanding who you really are and what you need, and being willing then to give yourself what you need. I think that’s such a key, because so often we withhold from ourselves, because we think if I could just focus better, if I could just work harder, if I just wasn’t so lazy, if I just managed my time better, then, then I wouldn’t have to pay someone to do it. So I shouldn’t pay someone to do it. And my heart breaks for anyone who’s sitting with that perspective, because there’s still a measure of self acceptance that needs to be embraced. There’s still a measure of like, understanding and compassion that still needs to be like, woven in to your personhood. Because I think that’s, that’s what is required in order to really outsource, is understanding yourself, knowing your limitations, but not judging yourself for them being like, okay, here are my limitations. How can I support myself? What do I need? And of course, not everyone is going to be able to, just like today, go hire someone to do their laundry. But literally, in my community, there is a laundry service that is $5 a load, $5 a load. So, I mean, most people are listening to this on their iPhones, right? Like, most people can afford $5 for a lot. So, like, she comes and picks it up, wow, and then drops it back off to you for five bucks. Wow, that’s crazy talk. Yeah, exactly. That’s crazy. It’s like there are services like that out there, but we don’t even allow ourselves to go look for them until we have that self compassion that says,
Bill Adair 49:53
I’m not a loser,
Kristen Carder 49:55
I’m not lazy, I’m not I don’t just need to work harder. Or I need to figure out how to support myself, right?
Bill Adair 50:03
I hadn’t thought of it that way. I mean, I’ve just thought of it as sort of a practical matter, but never thought of it as an act of compassion, 100% but yeah, it has been, yeah. And you know, I know that I’m lucky to be able to afford those things, but as you say, it’s not all of it has to be expensive. I pay the guy who helps us every week, just for a few hours, 25 bucks an hour. So it adds up to be, you know, a couple $100 a month. And I know a lot of people don’t have that extra, but you know, it just means that we have to move money from, you know, we have prioritize, and I prioritize it, yeah? Prioritizing the spoons that matter. That was a word that on a pillow, yeah, prioritize the spoons that matter. That’s so good. That is, if only we weren’t ADHD and we could actually, like crochet or embroider.
Kristen Carder 50:59
You could commission someone
Bill Adair 51:02
commissioned someone to do that. Because no way, no way. Do I have the patience for that?
Kristen Carder 51:06
Gosh. So what do you feel like is your next step for outsourcing? Do you have a next step? So right now you’re you have a cleaning service, a laundry service, same person we have the drudgery tasks. Is there anything else that you’re kind of like, ooh, someday I want to have someone do this. Wow. That’s Wow. I kind of see more of it in your future. Do you like, maybe this is retirement? Like, maybe that’s what retirement is. It’s like, I don’t do anything I don’t want to do, right, right, right. That is a very good goal for it, because I like that. I would do that kind of retirement.
Bill Adair 51:48
Yeah, right, right, right, right, yeah. No, that makes total sense. I’d like to be able to pay someone to exercise for me,
Kristen Carder 51:57
go take this yoga class for me,
Bill Adair 51:59
right, right, right, exactly. And, you know, I really, I need to, you know, I need to work on my body, please.
Kristen Carder 52:06
Would you ever hire like, do you think it would be supportive to hire a trainer to come to your house?
Bill Adair 52:12
Yes, exactly. I think that that’s right, making it easier for me to exercise would be, definitely be something I could imagine hiring someone to do, yes, absolutely.
Kristen Carder 52:24
What would that look like, like in a perfect world? Like, what? How would you like? Would they come to your house? Would it be a couple times come to my house and they would bring you an iced coffee, right?
Bill Adair 52:37
They bring me a nice protein shake. There it is, right? Um, yeah, I think the things that still really stress me out are like, eating healthily, yeah, right, and exercising, like finding time and cognitive capacity to think about those things, right? So I would say being able to pay someone to like, you know, like, be a nutritionist for me, right? You know, I mean, ideally, in a total fantasy world, you know, they would, you know, like, you know, make me super healthy food for breakfast, lunch and dinner every day, right? Dude, I was rich, right?
Kristen Carder 53:10
Yeah, like, meal prep and just kind of like, have it on there,
Bill Adair 53:12
yeah, exactly, yeah. But, you know, I definitely, I think I would like to, like, pay a nutritionist to really help me create a meal plan. You know, these are, these are fantasies, right? Or somebody to, like, really guide me through an exercise regimen that, you know, would, you know, help, really, help me feel completely healthy? Yeah, I do go to the gym, and I do actually have a trainer at the gym, but you still have to, like, get yourself there, and it’s so hard. Only, yeah, so, but that’s, I think those are things that still really weigh on me, especially as I age. You know, it’s just like now or never like, I need to, I need to eat healthily now. Now. I need to start exercising more now. So I am being better at it, but it takes a lot of spoons for me to figure out how to eat healthily, yeah?
Kristen Carder 54:02
And they’re not always available to you, so I’m guessing that it’s a little bit inconsistent with the eating based on whether or not you have the spoons to, like, give to it, yeah?
Bill Adair 54:13
And when my spoons are dried up, I’ll, like, get a cheesesteak. 100% Yeah, 100% not, not, not good. And, you know, I have my good days and my bad days. I have cheesesteak days, and I have, you know, like, okay, bowl days.
Kristen Carder 54:27
Yes, I think that that is one of the things for me as well. I’ve thought about it so much like, do I want to prioritize having someone come to the house and exercise with me? Yeah, and just because, like, I do, like to go to classes, yeah, but they’re always at weird times that are just, like, not fit with my schedule. And I don’t do it on my own. I hike on my own, but that’s I mean, I need to, like, lift weights. And yeah, I just yeah, I’m not gonna do that. It’s really hard, promise you. I won’t do that.
Bill Adair 55:00
No, I get it. I get it. Yeah? So I think Yeah. I mean, in the same way that, like having my laundry folded is taking care of myself. I think some of those other ways in which I really do want to take care of myself, more better, yeah, more better, more effectively. Wow. I also need a grammar tutor. Would be, yeah? Like, you know, someone to help me with my food. So me to help me with, you know, just like, yeah, as I age, you know, like, healthy aging,
Kristen Carder 55:29
I love that. I see it in your future. I hope you’re right. I think it’s probably going to happen soon. I love that. Um, this has been, I just smacked my mic, which I only do when I’m feeling very passionate. This has been so good. I fun. You’re smacking your mic too. I love it. That’s how we know very fun. That’s how we know that it was good. I just so appreciate your perspective. I am curious. I imagine that people are listening with the thought of like, well, that’s great for him, yeah, but I just need to get my shit together, and if I would just work harder, then I could get these things done. Or I shouldn’t pay someone to do it, because I could do it myself. I’m just wondering, like, Do you have any encouragement for a listener who’s maybe like on the fence or considering making the move to hire someone to help with the drudgery?
Bill Adair 56:32
Yeah, I mean, I think that you know,
when we acknowledge that we have ADHD and we start thinking about coping skills, and we start working on things like getting enough sleep right, or, you know, giving ourselves more time to get places, right. The kind of self care, self compassion moves that we make, you know? I mean, I think this is another kind of self care and self compassion that we can think about, you know, and you know. And you think about, like, spend three or $4 on a latte every day. You know that. You know that adds up. I mean, you could spend that amount of money hiring someone, you know, having a laundry service, yeah, or hiring someone to do your your taxes or your paperwork, or something like that. I mean, it’s, it is, I mean. And once again, I will say, I know not everyone has discretionary money to do this, but a lot of middle class people spend money on things that they don’t necessarily get tremendous value from. And you know, as as I’ve gotten older, like figuring out what I want to spend my money on has been an incredibly important journey, right? And as someone with ADHD as well, right? So for me, it’s about, you know, prioritizing my self compassion over something that feels like a treat every day, but in the end, you know, I get a lot less bang for the buck, yes, a lot less purpose from it. So yeah, for us, you know, not being able to have expensive lattes every day, or another trip to Europe or whatever, you know, it’s worth it for me to be able to stay just a little bit more sane on a daily, slash weekly basis.
Kristen Carder 58:18
That sanity is so important. And I don’t think it can be overstated, what a difference it makes when those drudgery tasks are not screaming at you. Yeah, just like how much more sanity is available
Bill Adair 58:34
to you. Yeah, I gained spoons just by coming home and looking at my folded laundry.
Kristen Carder 58:38
Yes, Wow,
Bill Adair 58:41
I feel, I really feel like I do.
Kristen Carder 58:42
I like, have this visual picture of, like, a video game where, like, the life expectancy is, like raising because you’re just like, ah, exactly.
Bill Adair 58:52
I don’t have to do that. Yeah. Parking ticket paid. Yes. Now I have energy to take a walk. Oh my gosh. I love that. Thank you for sharing your perspective. Yeah, thanks for listening. Yeah. It was really great to have you. And Thank you, Kristin, for honestly, like planting all these seeds in my head and offering all these you know, these things that you know in a lot of other places might be considered luxuries. And in this context, feel like survival skills.
Kristen Carder 59:25
Oh my gosh. I love that. Thank you, listener. Thank you so much for being here. We have enjoyed every second that we’ve gotten to spend with you, and if you’ve enjoyed this conversation, don’t forget to do the things you know what to do. You’re gonna like, you’re gonna subscribe, you’re gonna rate, you’re going to inject that dopamine right up into my veins, and I can’t wait to talk to you next week. I’ll see you then, bye. Bye.
