Kristen Carder 0:05
Welcome to the I have ADHD podcast, where it’s all about education, encouragement and coaching for adults. With ADHD, I’m your host, Kristen Carter and I have ADHD, let’s chat about the frustrations, humor and challenges of adulting, relationships, working and achieving with this neurodevelopmental disorder, I’ll help you understand your unique brain, unlock your potential and move from point A to point B.
Hey, what’s up? This is Kristen Carter, and you’ve tuned into the I have ADHD podcast. I am medicated, caffeinated, regulated and ready to roll. I am extremely regulated today, because my most regulating human in the whole world is here. The love of my life, Greg Carter, is joining us for actually two episodes in a row. We are going to be talking in this episode about marriage, about what it’s like to have a relationship with someone with ADHD, about the dynamics of being neurotypical and neurodivergent, and trying to figure out how to live life together, just in general, in a relationship, in a couple. And then also, just throw in a sprinkle of neurodivergence a couple kids, and all the things.
I wanted to give you guys some stats, as we started, we have been together for 23 years. Makes it sound old. Yeah, don’t love that, but 23 years, that’s impressive. Married almost 21 we’ve had four homes, three kids, five jobs, between the two of us and seven national parks. Seven national parks, y’all. I mean, if that’s not something to brag about, I don’t know what is. We hit two just this summer. Yeah, it was super fun. So we just got back from the Smoky Mountains. I loved the Smoky Mountains. So much. Did you enjoy that?
Greg Carder 2:02
Yeah, it was great. Awesome week. So much to do,
Kristen Carder 2:05
so much to do. It was the first time that we’ve been to a national park where there’s also things to do around the park. Yeah, yeah.
Greg Carder 2:15
For sure, our kids had a blast. Yes, yeah, yeah. Go back. Spend another week there.
Kristen Carder 2:19
Easy. 100% Yeah, normally, when you’re at a national park, it’s not the point of the episode, but we, like, I got ADHD here, and we’re gonna go down a little rabbit trail. Normally, you are sleeping in like a, not a nice hotel, or like a double wide trailer. Was like the nicest Airbnb that I could find in Forks, Washington, when we went to Olympic and eating at, like, gas stations, yep, like, literally designing gas
Greg Carder 2:46
station pizza, the one restaurant where we could sit down, you had to be 18 or older to eat in, yeah, and we have three kids, so they didn’t let
Kristen Carder 2:53
us in. Yes, we didn’t know that. Okay, so, but in the Smoky Mountains, there were so many options. Yeah, so many options we had the best time. Highly recommend. Highly recommend. And nature is so calming for the nervous system. For any of you who are neurodivergent, for any of you who feel like you are constantly agitated, vacation in nature. Please.
Greg Carder 3:16
We can get you next to a stream or a fire. It’s the calmest version of Kristen that there is.
Kristen Carder 3:22
It’s true. It’s true. And that’s vacation that is, that is vacation. It’s so relaxing. Okay, we have a lot of history between the two of us. We’ve, we’ve spent a lot of time together.
Greg Carder 3:36
That’s a pretty big intro. The most regulating person in your life. That’s a lot to live up to,
Kristen Carder 3:41
I think in a previous episode, I called you my emotional support animal, and I was that to me, yeah, I’m sorry about that. I was trying not to do that this time, so I just calling you my you’re like, my regulation barometer. Yeah, it’s good. It is good.
Greg Carder 3:58
Accept my role. You accept it
Kristen Carder 4:02
should you choose to accept? I think that that says a lot, though. And every time that you like, either come home late at night or were on the couch together, and I just, I start yawning, you’re like, ah, there it is. Permission to go to sleep, yes, because it’s just, there’s something about when you’re in a safe relationship, and you I’ll speak for myself, I am, you know, hyperactive. Have trouble just being calm, and then somebody enters the room who just is so calming. It is just, there’s nothing like it, yeah, worth millions, in my opinion, you’re welcome. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. This is your, let’s see third podcast appearance, but your first time in the studio, yep. How does it feel? It’s fun.
Greg Carder 4:58
It’s fun. Yeah, so. To see what you do behind the scenes.
Kristen Carder 5:02
It’s not easy. I’m already sweating. It’s not easy. I said to my producer, I mean, you were here for it, but I’m gonna tell the audience. I said to my producer, just as we were getting started, I don’t wanna do it. It just feels like a lot of pressure, like Lights, Camera Action, let’s go. It’s like, oh my gosh, I don’t wanna do it, but I am so excited to have this conversation, because every time that you come on and we talk about relationships and we talk about marriage, the response is so positive. It’s good, overwhelmingly positive. And people are just really grateful that you’re willing to be exposed. Yeah. How do you feel? That’s good. It’s hard to tell the
Greg Carder 5:41
truth. Yeah, yeah. And your willingness as well, yeah. Just works. It does work.
Kristen Carder 5:49
It’s weird to be the kind of person who’s willing to have these conversations publicly, don’t you think? Like not many people are the kind of people that will have these types of conversations publicly, and it’s a little bit weird, yep, yep. Be the one
Greg Carder 6:05
it’s, there’s an emotional toll. Yes, when you’re in front of a camera and there’s a microphone in front of you, and there’s a bunch of people are gonna listen to your story, yeah, recommend it,
Kristen Carder 6:16
yeah, we’re gonna, there’s, there will be naps in our future, yeah, for sure. So as we get started, listener, I just want you to know that Greg has been on twice before. If you go back and listen to episodes 53 and 54 of the audio podcast we recorded that episode, I think 2020
Greg Carder 6:40
at our dining room table with a single mic and a USB cable hooked up to our laptop. It was it was ugly.
Kristen Carder 6:49
It was janky. It was janky. I mean, look how things have changed. We were sitting in our dining room sharing a Blue Yeti snowball Mike, how? Why? I have no idea. Oh, it’s adorable. Our kids were home. It was 2020, they were downstairs being wild. We
Greg Carder 7:12
bribed them a little bit, obviously, but three boys can’t be bribed completely, no, without making some noise. So, yeah, we sat at that table, and it was, I would say, I mean, it was early in your journey, ADHD and stuff, so I was saying things out loud that you’d never heard before. Yeah, that was hard. Yeah, it was, yeah. That’s hard for me, yep. So if you want to see Kristen react in a way that is pretty authentic and raw and fresh. Yeah, yeah, you should go back
Kristen Carder 7:44
and go check those, those episodes out. And then last year, you came on, and we were much more civilized. We were in two separate offices on zoom that was so much more civilized. And now we get to sit face to face. So episodes 53 and 54 and episode 275, and now you’re here again. I’m so glad. Let’s start off the conversation by talking about, let me say it this way. I get so many people saying that in their relationships, they really struggle to explain. ADHD and to be in relationship with people who fully accept them and their ADHD. So we’re going to spend a lot of time today as we chit chat, talking about acceptance, talking about what it’s like to kind of wake up to an ADHD diagnosis or and have your partner be discovering all of these things about themselves. But I want to start by saying that listener, I’m assuming you are the ADHD er, and it is first your responsibility to learn about ADHD yourself before you can expect your partner, your friend, your parent, to understand the diagnosis, to accept the diagnosis it is on you as the person with ADHD, to do some self discovery. And that’s the first thing that I always want people to know, because we want to delegate that responsibility off to someone else and say like it’s your job to learn about me. It’s your job to learn about my ADHD, but there’s a lot of work we as the neurodivergent person need to do on the forefront first. So I just want to start off the combo looking straight into the camera and saying, like, hey, as the person with ADHD, that’s your job to do some learning, some self discovery, some understanding of ADHD, and then, and only then, when you begin to accept it about yourself, can you start to introduce it into your relationships. Would you agree? Like is that?
Greg Carder 9:55
Yeah, 100% I mean, it’s the humans are. Are meaning all of us. We’re not focused on others as often as we would like the world to believe. I mean, most days we wake up, we’re thinking about how I’m feeling, what I have to do, what I have to focus on. What are my limitations? What are my goals set for today? What am I frustrated about? And we want someone to care for all of those things that we’re thinking about. So we are not thinking about diagnosing the people in our life, or spending time reading, podcasting and networking regarding the things that the people we love are going through very often,
Kristen Carder 10:36
and that’s okay. That doesn’t make you a bad person? Like, it’s very human to have a self focused perspective, not that we don’t love the people in our lives, but like, you guys have to take care of
Greg Carder 10:51
Yeah, so I think just acknowledging that it’s gonna prevent some bitterness from developing in the heart towards your person. Yeah. Say, why don’t they care enough about me to figure me out? Yes, so, oh
Kristen Carder 11:05
yeah. The other thing that I wanted to make sure to say is that you as the neurodivergent person, you as the ADHD person, learning about your ADHD, discovering what it means to have ADHD, accepting your ADHD, and then going to the people that you love and and kind of explaining it, that is where there can be a lot of friction, especially it’s so frustrating with a diagnosis like ADHD. We’ve had Ari Tuchman on the podcast several times, and he says, ADHD doesn’t create new problems, it exacerbates the universal ones. And so when I go to you and like, when we were first in this beginning of the journey, and I’m like, I’m really forgetful. That’s because of ADHD. And you’re like, Well, I’m forgetful too. And I’m like, I know, but like, it just there’s this human nature to be like, yeah, we’re all forgetful, we’re all distracted, we’re all we all struggle with our emotions. And so what I want to help the listener to understand is someone with ADHD who has a diagnosis is experiencing that to a debilitating level, right? So, like, it’s the same problem that everybody has. It’s just a much higher scale, higher scale. I’m not sure how to say that a much greater struggle. Does that make sense? Yeah, what was it like for you to shift? Because there were there, there was friction in our early years about, like, Well, yeah, these are things that everyone struggles with. What was it like for you to shift from kind of that mindset into really accepting, like, okay, there is a difference here. ADHD is a thing. What was that
Greg Carder 12:53
like? Yeah, well, it was, I mean, it was difficult. It wasn’t super fun, no, it’s really hard to discover things years into a relationship that you didn’t necessarily when you enter into a marriage, you agree to for better or for worse, and the highs and lows, so you agree to love this person, and You’re agreeing to that covenant on a set of experiences and history that have all played a part in. You know, I am choosing to partner with this person for the rest of my life, and then years into the relationship, there are discoveries that are made that you didn’t account for early on. And so I think that for someone who doesn’t struggle with ADHD thoughts of frustration or feeling because feelings of frustration based on thinking that this other person just doesn’t care enough about you and your space or your Time, it can be really destructive, but certainly not. It’s not the end that’s not the end goal, that’s not the end game. That’s simply part of the struggle that you need to be aware of. And I think that if anybody is out there listening and is getting frustrated with the way that their partner is experiencing what they would take as a lack of care in a particular area, it might be something else going on, and and, and so one of the ways you helped me understand, and this took a long time, what was going on that could that was potentially creating frustration in Our home, was you were pointing out specific moments where you felt like your ADHD was revealing itself yes or interfering with whatever was going on, yes. And that helped Yeah. That helped point my eyes, my attention and my heart to this thing that was impacting you. You personally, or the situation that we were involved in, and it took it off of like, this is not like. This is not about my heart, caring about you or our home or our family, but this is about a struggle that I’m experiencing, and it’s manifesting itself in this way.
Kristen Carder 15:15
It’s like, I think what you’re pointing to is that it’s really easy to take things personally. Oh, for sure, right? So like, I leave the cabinet doors all open in the kitchen and a mess on the counter, and it’s easy to have the thought, like, I don’t do that as much anymore. Remember how I used to do that all the time. Doesn’t she care? Yeah, she’s so inconsiderate. I think the first memory that I have of this in our marriage experience is the toothpaste tube.
Greg Carder 15:51
Yeah, yeah. It’s the earliest classic, yeah. Like weeks into her you’re
Kristen Carder 15:55
like moving. Why are you squeezing the toothpaste tube in the middle, like this right in the middle. And by the way, I still do that. We’ve accommodated ourselves by having separate toothpaste, which makes me feel very rich, like two tubes of toothpaste in one bathroom.
Greg Carder 16:14
Yeah, rich are we? Yeah. I mean, early on, early on, the keys. You know, I was struggling to find your keys, and I put my keys in the same spot every day when I come home. And that’s not true. Wasn’t true. We found the TV remote in the frigerator on the pantry shelf, because it’s wherever you were carrying it, and then you swapped it for whatever snack you were looking for, and the TV remote was in the refrigerator once. Yeah,
Kristen Carder 16:47
and like now it’s, it’s almost like you experience it as endearing. I don’t know it how hard you have to work to get to that place, but it does seem to me now when things like that happen like you, your attitude is more like, Oh, you’re adorable. Is now, yeah, what in the world made the shift for you? Because I think everyone listening is like, I wish my partner felt like I was adorable when they when they saw, you know, the the tea remote in the fridge, or when I can’t find my keys, or, you know, et cetera, et cetera, like, how did you internally get yourself to shift? Yeah,
Greg Carder 17:29
that took a lot of time. I mean, you opened the episode by talking about the responsibility of the person to first do some learning, because the people so we just spent time in the Smoky Mountains, and we were beside a stream for a while. Every stream water flows downhill, right? This is a stupid analogy, but water flows downhill, but it all originates from a spring, and I would say that starting point, everything downstream of that is impacted by what happens at the top, at the beginning, and so you, as an ADHD person, have to really understand at the top how everything is going to be affected downstream. Your partner is downstream, your kids are downstream, your job is downstream, your social life, your friends, your house, everything, your finances, your budget, everything is downstream of this starting point that’s going to affect your life, your decision making, the way that you experience and interact with the world. And so everyone downstream needs to be aware of what’s coming, right? So if there’s a if there’s a rush of water, if there’s something that they need to be alert of, or whatever, like, I’m making a stupid
Kristen Carder 18:41
analogy. Great. I am actually very impressed. Okay, so
Greg Carder 18:45
everybody downstream needs to be aware of what’s happening. And so I think that when you have someone who understands their ADHD, and I have developed through repetition and practice the words to be able to describe their feelings and their experiences and and sharing that with their partner. The the receiving end of that, which is sort of my role, my responsibility is there has to be a lot of openness, a willingness to receive, to learn, to relearn and to let go. And so I think that there’s support and empathy that has to be given in order for every relationship to succeed. And that support and empathy begins with, I am going to take time and create space for for allowing what my partner is sharing with me about their experience, and let that become the truth on how I see the world. Wow, how I experienced them in this world. Yeah, so I you know, a lot of the work that for me as your husband is has has been. On what’s the word I’m looking for has been determined. I mean, I just been determined to just accept regardless of how my worldview or interpretation or experience is. Just determined, determined to accept this, because this is the person I’m married to. I have to accept it. Yeah,
Kristen Carder 20:27
I appreciate you doing that work. Thanks, you will. I really do, and I know that. You know, there, it’s not just in a neurotypical, neurodivergent relationship where that work has to be done. There are things about every couple, every relationship where we are just accepting things. And it is, you kind of spoke to this at the beginning, like our selfishness tells us, like my way is the right way, my perception is the right perception. If, if they just did x, y, z, then everything would be fine. And like, resisting that in relationship is so important, and letting your partner be who they are, and then determining, like, Okay, this is it. Oh, gosh, yeah. Oh, it’s good. I really, I do want to just speak to that analogy of the of the river flowing downstream and the spring. Again, I’m going to come back to this over and over, as the ADHD or the burden is on us to develop the knowledge, to develop a sturdiness in the diagnosis. Some of us really question the diagnosis, and so then when a partner or a friend questions the diagnosis, then we’re like, Oh my gosh. Like, maybe I might Maybe I am wrong. Maybe it is stupid. So developing a sturdiness there to be able to hold steadfast what a partner might say. Well, yeah, we all struggle with that. It’s like, No, I get to have this, you know, debilitating neurodevelopmental disorder, and it’s been clinically diagnosed. Like, there does come a point where someone might have to say it’s not okay for you to be saying that to me anymore.
Greg Carder 22:24
Yeah. So there were times when I questioned what you were saying, yeah. And how’d that make you feel
Kristen Carder 22:32
defensive? Really defensive. Looking back, I think the questions make a lot of sense, you know, especially now in the maybe eight years between maybe 10 years, I’ve coached so many people who have the same conversations with their spouses, you know. So I now have a context to be able to say, oh, that’s completely normal. These are really normal conversations. Those are really normal responses. This is a really normal question, but when it’s you in the moment, I would I felt really defensive and maybe misunderstood. Is a is a good way to put it too, like I don’t want to be thought of as making excuses, and there’s a lot of rhetoric out there that ADHD is an excuse, and I don’t, like, I don’t want to make excuses, but I do want you to understand right? And so, like, how do I explain this where it doesn’t sound like I’m making an excuse, but like, so that you can understand me, and probably at the heart of that is like, so that you’re not mad at me, so that you still like me, so that we can still be connected, you know, yeah,
Greg Carder 23:47
yeah, yeah. I think someone gave me this illustration years ago about a separate
topic, but I think it applies here about a like, a parked car, you can’t steer a parked car, and I think that as as someone who’s trying to help their partner understand them, they have to get behind and push a little bit so that that car is in motion, because the the learning, the book, reading, the podcasting, the coaching and the support programs are great, but if they’re only one sided, you know your partners are just parked in the garage comfortable with the life that they’re living and and you can’t move them in another direction unless you create some momentum. So only a car in motion can be steered in a direction or another end. And so we have, like a responsibility to help people understand what we’re experiencing by getting behind and giving some push and some and sharing some information that you have been learning so true, like for me, getting over that hump of creating a situation that was causing you to be defensive. By doubting or questioning what you were sharing was you would give me a podcast to listen to, and I would, and I would try to take it into, you know, into account you haven’t asked me to read a lot of lengthy material, because, I mean, I read a lot for my job, and I would just prefer I don’t really takes me a long time. It’s fine. I enjoy books, but, like, they’re not my main thing, but, but you or an Instagram reel, you know, even just a minute long, really, this clearly depicts what I experience in this moment, everything you share with me I watch or listen to, and that is, you know, just one way that a spouse or partner can commit to to a good, healthy relationship and a future together of learning and growing and evolving. Mm, hmm,
Kristen Carder 25:59
yeah, yeah, that’s the thing. It’s like, it’s so dependent on the other person’s willingness to participate, and that I think can feel really scary and vulnerable for an ADHD or listening is like, I don’t know how my partner’s gonna react. I don’t know if they’ll actually listen to the podcast or watch the real or if they do, if they’re like, What the heck? Like, that was stupid, or, you know, and that could feel really scary, because we just, we want to be accepted and understood.
Greg Carder 26:33
Yeah. I mean, one of the great things about our access to information these days is we can share stuff from professionals and experienced people that are really hard to disagree with, right? So if you’re interviewing someone in this seat who is dedicated their life to writing, reading, teaching and educating, if you know you have provided a volumes of data and information for people to use, yeah, and so I would just encourage your listeners to say, like, you know, this isn’t me talking. This is professional. This is, this is Kristen. This is Dr, someone. This is, you know, Professor of this is an author you know, and share that information with people. Because, like, what were you? Oh, have you written a book about it? Like, why? Why are you disagreeing with right now? Because I’m providing not only my story, my experience, but information that validates and backs up. That’s, I think there’s the value in sharing with your partner, yeah, and that’s the nudge that I was talking about earlier. You know, you send an Instagram reel, you send a clip or a podcast episode that you feel like really describes your experience. You’re giving momentum to drive, you know, that’s going to steer the car in a direction you want it to go.
Kristen Carder 28:00
It’s so good because it’s easy to argue with my perception, my experience, but are you going to argue with science, with research, with data? There does come a point listener where you may have to kind of make that hard and fast argument, where it’s like, Hey, this is not just me, you know. Like, oh, everyone has ADHD now. Like, this is not an excuse. This is an actual clinical diagnosis backed by research and science and like, is that, like, maybe asking your partner, like, is that really what you’re gonna argue with here? You know, whoo. I know, hopefully it won’t come to that, but if it does, I don’t think it’s inappropriate to really lean on some some scientific data.
Greg Carder 28:51
Yeah, it’s, it’s good. I would say, let me, let me just throw in one more thing,
Kristen Carder 28:56
you know, soften it. Yes, okay, yeah, this is the dynamic we’re gonna have to just so you all know this, that’s the dynamic here. I’m gonna say it’s spicy. You’re gonna soften it.
Greg Carder 29:07
Okay, so as the receiver of that information, if you, if you critique somebody’s response to you as as like, what are you going to disagree with? You know, the scientific data on this that you’ve immediately put that person in defensive position. So I think just sharing it and letting it be for a while is enough.
Kristen Carder 29:36
Because if you put your partner and be patient, is that what you’re trying to say, you put your
Greg Carder 29:41
partner very rude. Your partner will not change. If they’re in defensive they won’t. They can’t. We can’t. I mean, we’re immediately in a mode of being backed into a corner. Can’t? All of a sudden, the information that we’re receiving is being filtered through a threat. Threat, yeah, and so you know, is my intelligence being threatened right now in this moment, or is it being questioned? It can’t that’s not where growth is gonna take place. All
Kristen Carder 30:12
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Greg Carder 32:29
yeah. So sometimes you’ll send me an Instagram reel, and underneath it you’ll just say, This is me, yeah. And there’s, there’s no
Kristen Carder 32:36
like, you have to believe this. You have to this is why I told
Greg Carder 32:40
you all this extra stuff. Or you could write, I wish you saw me this way, which was like, right? Totally different than just saying this describes my experience, yeah, and then it gives me the permission and the opportunity to make that a part of our story,
Kristen Carder 32:59
yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that’s so good.
Greg Carder 33:03
Oh, that’s so that’s your credit. I appreciate that. Thank you. Yeah,
Kristen Carder 33:07
um, this question came from a listener, and I don’t want to ask it, but I think it’s, I think it’s good and it’ll be worthwhile. Do you ever feel like Kristen and or Kristen’s ADHD takes up a lot of space in the relationship, and if so, how do you navigate the dynamic without resentment building up?
Greg Carder 33:39
Do I feel like it takes up a lot of space.
Kristen Carder 33:42
Maybe not so much anymore, but when we were kind of going through that journey of learning and of discovery,
Greg Carder 33:49
yeah, so
Kristen Carder 33:54
now,
Greg Carder 33:56
no, but I don’t know if that’s because we’ve changed our perspective, or I’ve changed the perspective in some way where I stop, I think early on, you about you can see your partner and every little thing that they do as an offense, yes, to your existence in your home, right? So like you know, everything from the tube of toothpaste to the dishes to the car keys to how you spend time to budgeting and finances and decision making, impulse control and all of that that goes into life. I think maybe that all still exists. I just don’t see it anymore. Yeah, yeah, yeah, or chosen to accept it, yeah, and I second part of
Kristen Carder 34:43
that, no, if, if I, when I was taking up a lot of space, which I do think there was a time, how did you navigate the dynamic without resentment building up? Because there, there were a couple years where I, I. Mean, especially in my childbearing years, I wasn’t supported at all. For ADHD, I wasn’t medicated. We had three little kids. It was chaotic, chaotic, and I know that there was a lot of like, missed appointments, messiness, things just not getting done, even, like, mail that you should have gotten that you didn’t get because I just, like, threw it away or put it on a pile, like those kinds of things. Um, yeah. So like, when, when I was taking up a lot of space with the ADHD component, how did you navigate it? Um, it says without resentment, but I think there was resentment, and that’s okay. So, like, how,
Greg Carder 35:46
yeah, so, so we can flip that around, from what you said at the beginning of this episode, the there’s a from the from the stream, you know, stream flowing from its source, whatever the ADHD person is responsible for the learning, the communicating and the sharing of their experience, but then when it comes to the relationship and living with in a home that navigating that resentment that is on the person on the other side. So so I have a responsibility for my own resentment towards any towards you or any one person in the world. And so I have to deal with potential resentment in a healthy way that’s not going to grow into like a root of bitterness that forms my heart, that causes me to be just a really grouchy, negative person that can’t interact with certain people or certain types of people. And so I I have to, you know, part of if Can I talk about my faith a little bit, I believe that in this world, I am accepted and loved with a grace and where there’s a level of unconditional love that is present there, and so if I know that my soul is loved and cared for with grace and in an unconditional way, that is the model then for how I am to love my family, yeah, and it’s and so I haven’t learned how to do that perfectly or completely, but that’s the starting point. Yeah, is with grace and an unconditional way. So if you squeeze the toothpaste from a way that frustrates the heck out of me, instead of being bitter or resentful towards you about that when to get my own toothpaste, gonna separate myself from that and just like, solve the problem. Yeah, so resentment is a lot of just solving the problem. Yes, is a lot of internal work, but some of that internal work just comes into make a different choice and solve the problem.
Kristen Carder 38:00
100% I heard, I don’t remember where I heard this, but it has really stuck with me. And I say it a lot, in focus is resentment is a sign of an unmet need and, and I think that’s what you’re speaking to, is like, I’m resentful because, like, I have this for whatever reason. And like, we don’t need to talk about toothpaste that much. But like, honestly, you have this, like, need for the toothpaste to be one way I’m gonna solve that. I’m gonna meet that need for myself and not expect my partner to have the capacity to meet that need. And I really, I appreciate that answer so much. The resentment in any relationship for any reason is such a big catalyst for fights, for divorce, for disconnection, and I think that that is like a big issue that like, if we can pinpoint resentment and begin to solve for that, relationships will flourish in so many ways. Yeah,
Greg Carder 39:00
yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely. So I don’t know why I get out the door faster. Oh, my God. Well,
Kristen Carder 39:09
I mean, there are so many reasons dig
Greg Carder 39:12
into that I I used to just wait in the kitchen and I realized and feel resentful and be frustrated, like, Why? Why are you going back upstairs even doing? What did you forget? What did you think of? Because your your brain will think of items that you wanted to bring at the last second when you’re walking out the door. My brain does not work that way. And so when I get my shoes on and my keys in my pocket and I’m ready to go, I have done everything I want to do, and I’m ready to go, lucky you and and you at that same point have three more things that you haven’t thought of, but you go. Going to think of. And so instead of standing there in a kitchen, you sensed my tone, my body language, and that would create more frustration. So what I started doing was just getting into the car and waiting, yeah, and so I would just go in the car, and I would sit in the front seat, and I would just grab the wheel, and I would stare out the front windshield and just wait, and one sounds
Kristen Carder 40:23
dramatic, one by
Greg Carder 40:24
one, you and our other ADHD kids would slowly come out the door when you were ready. But what I am doing in that moment is just like, it’s fine. I’m telling myself, I’m rehearsing the words, it’s fine. This is my family and maintaining peace and their stability, yeah, requires me to just let it go,
Kristen Carder 40:51
yep, yep. Gosh, that’s so good. It’s like, that’s the work, the rehearsing who you want to be. It’s okay. It’s fine. Yeah,
Greg Carder 41:03
you have to, you have to have words, yeah. I mean, you have to have phrases that you’re repeating to yourself over and over that are guiding where you want to go. Is this important to me? How much am I going to care about this? Do I need to say something here? What will be the result if I do and and so you have to go through all of those phrases in your head. I have to go through those phrases in my head. Yes, when we’re trying to get out
Kristen Carder 41:31
the door. We haven’t even touched on bringing neurodivergent children into the mix. Yeah. We will do that in an in a in another episode, I’m curious if you could speak to if someone is single or dating and wants to make sure that their partner at least has the potential to be supportive. How does someone navigate relationships in a way that sets them up for success? Um, we didn’t really. I mean, we were babies. When we were dating, I was 23 recently turned 23 when we got married. When I think about that now, I’m like, Oh, my goodness. But I’m curious what advice you would give to people who are navigating either singleness or dating and just wanting to make sure. Like, obviously the person’s not going to be perfect. You can’t figure it out all of the things beforehand. But what could they look for to make sure, like, Does this person have the capacity to be supportive and like a good partner to a neurodivergent person? Yeah.
Greg Carder 42:49
Okay, I said this on a previous conversation we had, but I think it still is important. I want to say it again in case there’s anybody who who didn’t catch the last one, you really need to evaluate what a person is anchored to morally uh, because their moral anchor in a relationship is going to determine their response to everything else in life. So if they’re anchored to a moral system that is object, objective, it is outside of themselves, and it is unchanging that’s going to hold them in place during times of chaos. So when in your life, you experience turmoil and struggle, which every person does, every relationship will experience highs and lows. There will be in your life trauma and emergencies that will take place. You will experience heartache and loss, whether that be, you know, the loss of a loved one, a miscarriage, a financial crisis, a loss of a job that you loved, having to move the family out of the school district that you love, out of a neighborhood where your kids all have friends, into another state where you know, like, no couple is immune to these things. And so when you’re dating someone, you really need to dig into like, what are they anchored to, morally that drives and directs the way that they see the world? So I think that that is the number one and number two, I think it’s just time. Time you’re gonna you have to, you have to spend life living together, meaning like lived experiences together that are just going to reveal how they how they see the world. Yes, I think it’s funny that I was putting together this talk for something I’m doing except. From this. You can cut this out if you need to. It’s totally fine. But we’re talking, you know, about boy math. Girl math this sort of just different. These last two years, we’ve been having fun with the different ways that men and women see the world and interpret it. And one of the things that I wrote down that is pretty classic of what boy math is, if, if a man accuses a woman of being too emotional, but then will punch a hole in the wall, like that doesn’t make any sense. And so if you are dating a man that punches holes in wall, I would say that when chaos comes, when your ADHD is at its height, this person is going to respond to, probably with anger. And so you learn that pretty early, yeah, dating, and you’ll learn that pretty early on, if a person has the ability to have self control in an argument or not, yes, that’s so, but that’s all going to come from whatever objective moral system, moral systems they’re anchored to in their life, yeah, if they’re anchored to self, you know, I do what I want, I get to decide what’s right for me. What I do doesn’t impact anybody else, so I just do whatever I want. You know that that’s where are you in? That, right is the question I would be asking. Where do I fit into you? Thinking your life is all about you, that’s probably a red flag for me.
Kristen Carder 46:26
Yeah, yeah. So,
Greg Carder 46:27
I mean, if you are really concerned, if you’re out there listening and you’re really concerned about finding someone who is going to create space for this experience in your life, then this person needs to reveal to you that they have the capacity to create room for others and their experiences and their life.
Kristen Carder 46:46
That’s so good. And it reminds me, I know it’s kind of like so cliche, but Maya Angelou quote of when someone shows you who they are, believe them, right? And so I think when we’re dating someone, we just, we want to believe, like, oh, and when we get married, it’ll be different. When we when we’ve made a commitment, it’ll be different, but like, No, it’ll actually be intensified. It’ll actually get worse. And what I mean by that is, like, you’ll see more of who they are, you’ll see more of their humanity, you’ll see more of their
Greg Carder 47:22
flaws. Yeah, the honeymoon period will end. Yeah, the walls will come down. A couple years into your marriage, there’s less of a passion or a drive to impress this person as you settle in and get more comfortable, yes, yeah, what is revealed early on will remain and become more severe. Yeah,
Kristen Carder 47:38
for sure, I really appreciate that everyone with ADHD knows what to do to improve their lives. You go to bed at a reasonable time, you wake up early, you make a list, you cross things off the list in order, blah, blah, blah. Like, yeah, we know what to do, but ADHD is not a disorder of not knowing what to do. It’s a disorder of knowing exactly what to do but not being able to get yourself to do it. That’s why I created focused it’s an ADHD coaching membership for adults with ADHD. I’m a life coach with multiple certifications, and since 2019 I’ve coached over 4000 adults with ADHD from all over the world. I know what it takes to help an adult with ADHD go from Hot Mess express to grounded and thriving. I’ll teach you how to understand your ADHD brain, regulate your emotions and your behavior and accept yourself flaws and all. And with this foundation, we’ll build the skills to improve your life with ADHD, and not only do you get skills and tools and focus, but you’re surrounded by a huge community of adults with ADHD who are also doing the work of self development right alongside of you. Dr Ned Hallowell says healing happens in community, and I have absolutely found this to be true. So if you’re an adult with ADHD who wants to figure out how to be motivated from the inside out and make real, lasting changes in your life, join hundreds of others from around the world in focused go to I have adhd.com/focused to learn More. That’s I have adhd.com/focused to check it out. All right, let’s end here. My love. What advice would you give to a neurotypical spouse who wants to support their ADHD partner but doesn’t want to fall into a trap of being a parent to them, or a manager or like the default problem solver, where everything’s on you, and it’s like you’re always the one having to bear that burden. What you got.
Greg Carder 49:53
I mean, that is a that’s a mouthful, yeah, and I think that I was wrong in wanting to answer. For this question. Oh, really initially, but I think So from the standpoint of support, I have just accepted and taken on responsibilities that over time I saw were just too hard or overwhelming, and that we have a lot more balance in our relationship now when it comes to partnership and supporting. So there were things that I didn’t do early on in our marriage than I do now, and it took me realizing, if I want this done a certain way, this specific thing, I can just do it and and the and then developing that willingness to Do it, and I have noticed that has alleviated stress, yep, from your life hugely. And I’m not, you know, parenting you or being the decision maker in in everything, but it’s like, is this something that you just don’t want to think about every day? I’ll think about it every day because I can. So I will, and I, and then I, and then you just have to go through the process of being happy to do it. I’m happy to do this chore. Or do you
Kristen Carder 51:31
have one in mind? Because I do no laundry like you have just become like the default laundry person, not that I don’t contribute. I do, but your your brain can just do laundry like you work from home, and it’s what you’ve told me, and correct me if I’m wrong. Is that, like, it’s not a big deal to just do laundry while you work, which to me, I’m just like, that would derail my whole day if I had to fold laundry in the middle of doing my my work,
Greg Carder 52:10
take a five minute break, go upstairs, switch it to the dryer. Not
Kristen Carder 52:14
a problem. I cannot even
Greg Carder 52:17
that doesn’t interrupt my day. It doesn’t interrupt my thought process, my flow, if I’m working on writing something or reading deep or in study or something that doesn’t interfere, it’s just a five minute break to stretch
Kristen Carder 52:28
my legs. And then I can’t even fathom that. I
Greg Carder 52:30
think one another one I was thinking of is a team snap. Shout out, Team snap, like our kids sports, all the communication from the coach comes through these apps. And there’s, there’s, like, there’s like, five different apps that, like kids, sports, use whatever i That’s my job. Yes, it’s the last thing you want on your phone. Do it? You know, can’t keep you don’t want it. You
Kristen Carder 52:53
can’t I wouldn’t be good at overseeing it. I would miss stuff, so I’m on it. Yes, it’s so true. That’s so true. It’s so interesting, because this is not specific to ADHD neurotypical partnerships like this. Is just the work of being married. Is figuring out, what are you good at that you should manage? What am I good at that I should manage? So since we’ve gotten married, I’ve managed the finances the whole time. It is something I don’t know if I’m particularly good at it, but it’s just something that, like, I find that so much easier than laundry. So I will go into YNAB. Shout out, YNAB, you need a budget every, almost every day, and I’m budgeting. I’m making sure I’m I’m in our, like, investments and in all of the accounts every day. To me, that’s not hard, but the thought of having to do laundry I can’t, like, the the thought of having to work and do long I can’t even imagine. So it’s just figuring out, like, where are your strengths, where your weaknesses? And are you willing to be the type of partner that’s making up for? That’s like investing in your strengths and using that to contribute to your family, and then make making up for is not really the right word, but like contributing where your where your partner is weaker.
Greg Carder 54:20
Would you say that there are people out there who feel they can’t do anything at all?
Kristen Carder 54:25
No, okay. I mean, I don’t mean to speak for the whole ADHD community, but unless you are like on the very severe side of it, no, all of us have strengths. All of us have things we can contribute. All of us have different gifts and ways that we can contribute to society and our families. Absolutely.
Greg Carder 54:50
Yeah, what would you say to a spouse who feels like they have to do it all or nothing will get done?
Kristen Carder 54:57
I think that that’s like a. Really unfair, unbalanced partnership. And so then the question is, what is your partner need? What kind of support does your partner need in order to function better? Yeah, yeah, right. So what’s missing? Are they undiagnosed? Are they not medicated? Are they not are you? And this dynamic is so difficult because it’s like, especially if you don’t really think ADHD is a thing, so I don’t want to spend money on the medication, and I don’t want to give you money, give you money to, like, go to therapy or to engage in a coaching program, and it’s like, there becomes this, like, withholding of support, but then this still expectation that, like, you should be performing better, but I’m not gonna give you time away from the family, like, go do your thing. It’s totally fine. I’m not gonna give you the time. I’m gonna make you feel guilty about the time that you take. I’m not gonna share the family money for you to support your ADHD and so like in those cases, yeah, someone would really struggle to contribute to the family because they’re not getting the support that they need to be a functional person. Whoo, that was important. That was really important. I’m really glad that we I’m glad you asked that question. Oh, it’s firing. It’s so interesting, because a dynamic of a couple, like you’re sharing finances, and it can be hard to be like you want to spend how much on ADHD medication, or you want to spend how much on therapy, or you want to spend how much on coaching, plus you want to be away from the family. You want me to watch the kids while you go to therapy? You want me to watch the kids while you’re in a coaching meeting? Like, yes, there’s a lot of sacrifice on the neurotypical partner to allow the ADHD partner to have the support that they need so that they can show up and function in the family. Ooh, it’s good.
Greg Carder 57:03
Thank you. Yeah, appreciate it. Yeah, I think that’s all good. Because if someone, if you have a partner or spouse, who’s feeling like they’re having to do it all because they’re married to someone who is stuck, they just might not know where to start,
Kristen Carder 57:21
yeah, yeah, there’s a lack of support. Yeah, there’s an extreme lack of support. So the question isn’t, why aren’t you doing more? The question is, what do you need in order to get unstuck? What’s missing? What’s missing from from your toolkit, you know? And when you start to have those conversations as a coach, it’s like, wow, there’s, there is no toolkit we’re relying on, like vodka and Jesus, and that’s not enough to get an ADHD or through a day, right? So that needs to be a lot more in the toolkit. And then that becomes the focus, rather than why? Why can’t you
Greg Carder 58:07
just Yeah? Is it helpful when I say I’ll do that with you? Yes. Like, if you pull a load of laundry out of the dryer, like, I’ll fold that with you. Oh my gosh.
Kristen Carder 58:19
I think everyone listening is very jealous right now that I have a husband that says that. Or you pull a laundry, a load of laundry, out and you say, Don’t worry. You don’t have to, like, I’m I’m doing it. You don’t have to do it because sometimes it like, before bed, you’re pulling out, and I’m like, What are you doing? Like, I don’t want. And you’re just like, I’ve got it. I just want to get it done before
Greg Carder 58:44
it works both ways, because when I am ready for bed and one of our kids comes through the door, I just won’t, especially if they’ve already
Kristen Carder 58:52
last night,
Greg Carder 58:55
what are you doing out of bed? I don’t have it in me. Yes, and you just take over. Yeah. You’re just like, I got it. Don’t worry about it. It goes both ways. Yeah, that’s true. Yeah, that’s another one of those, lean into your strengths. Yes, that’s true. You’ll find ways to support
Kristen Carder 59:09
each other. That’s so true. Yes, it’s extremely helpful. When you offer to do something with me, or when you notice that I’m rushing to get out the door and you say, what do you need? Yeah, let me pack your lunch. Because sometimes it’s just like, the chaos, the stress, I’m just like, ah, it was like, what do you need? And it doesn’t feel demeaning. It doesn’t feel like
Greg Carder 59:34
So this morning, this morning prior, getting ready to come here today. Yes, I had my lunch packed. I had our son’s lunch packed, and the dishwasher going Yes, before going up to get dressed, and when you came down, I was ready to go. My shoes were on. My it’s like, It’s no fair. You’re bragging. And before I poured my cup of coffee. Happy to get in the car, to come here. I said, Is there anything you need? Yeah, before I, like, wrap this up and you just, you kind of smile, you laughed a little bit. You’re like, I’m fine.
Kristen Carder 1:00:13
You had already done so much. You
Greg Carder 1:00:15
were just trying to get a sandwich ready. I was just
Kristen Carder 1:00:18
getting I was making my peanut butter and honey. Shout out to peanut butter and honey. Yeah, it is. The division of labor is in those moments, it’s not equal. And I’m okay with that. I think if you look at the division of labor overall as a whole, like, that’s what you want to look like. But in those micro moments, the division of labor is not going to be equal. Like I I can barely get myself out the door. I cannot also get our youngest to camp and have all and have the, are you kidding me with the dishwasher I would have never so in those micro moments, the division of labor is not going to be equal. But if you think about division of labor as a whole, what am I carrying? What are you carrying? It feels so much more balanced. Yeah, it’s good. Yeah. It
Greg Carder 1:01:14
took work. If you do have anybody listening who’s in their first five years of marriage, it gets better. Take your time. It gets better. If you’re out there, just take your time. Yeah, I mean, you need to. It takes time. It’s so years. It’s so true. Yeah, your 20s gonna look way different than year five.
Kristen Carder 1:01:33
Yes, that’s so good. And what’s cool about that, when you are in your younger years, you feel like, you do. You just feel like, you know, by the time we’re married 20 years, like, gosh, it’s like, practically over. But like when you’re at 20 years, I’m like, we still got. How long do you think work to do? 40 years left? 50 years left. I want to live to 100 Yeah, I’m not into that. Yeah, I know we’ve had this discussion many times. All right, thank you for being here and for this conversation. I really appreciate you. Actually, I love you very much. Thank you, and I’m really glad that you’re willing to have these combos. I know it helps a lot of people. I know it does so listener, I we both are just encouraged by you listening and wanting to improve your relationships. And I hope that you feel encouraged to take your time, go slowly, accept yourself, accept your partner, and do the work of Yeah. I think acceptance is, is the key, yeah. All right. Well, thanks for listening. We’ll see you next week. If you’re being treated for your ADHD, but you still don’t feel like you’re reaching your potential, you’ve got to join focus. It’s my monthly coaching membership where I teach you how to tame your wild thoughts and create the life that you’ve always wanted, no matter what season of life you’re in or where you are in the world. Focused is for you. All. Materials and call recordings are stored in the site for you to access at your convenience. Go to Ihaveadhd.com/focused, for all the info.
